The American Ruling Class

[aljhoa]

You shoot a mellon, there is a small entrance wound, and a massive exit wound, blowing out much of the back of the mellon. NO WAY the 'kill shot' can have come from the back. Any eight year old kid (my age at the time), can 'see' it.Jim

All the ride to the hospital I kept bending over him saying:
`Jack, Jack, can you hear me, I love you Jack.'
I kept holding the top of his head down,
trying to keep the brains in,"
she said on Nov. 29, 1963,
week after the president's assassination.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jackie.txt


Al

[rickoff]

As you said, if the shot was from the back, why was Jackie scrambling to recover parts of Jacks skull from the BACK of the Limo?

I THINK, in your post, you 'hit the nail on the head'; all the other stuff, like the mystery bullet, and all the rest, is ephemera that the naysayers can argue over. But this is 'physics', that every person can clearly understand. You shoot a mellon, there is a small entrance wound, and a massive exit wound, blowing out much of the back of the mellon. NO WAY the 'kill shot' can have come from the back. Any eight year old kid (my age at the time), can 'see' it.Jim

I myself had long believed that Jackie had crawled onto the trunk to help Clint Hill get into the car, but closer examination of still frames shows that isn't the case. In the photo which I included in my post, showing Jackie on the trunk lid, she is obviously picking up something in her left hand which is in the area of the trunk behind where JFK had been sitting at the time of the kill shot. Jackie is said to have been ambidextrous, though was often seen favoring use of her left hand, as in the photo below.


So she certainly wasn't reaching for Clint Hill at the time of the frame showing her picking up the large chunk of skull & brain matter. Close examination of the frames which follow are somewhat impossible in the Zapruder film, as those frames are fairly well destroyed and obscured, but other films taken that day do show that Clint Hill grabbed Jackie's right forearm and helped her get into the back seat of the limo.

You can easily win the "magic bullet" argument by showing the frame-by-frame sequence of events from the time Kennedy was shot in the throat (at around frame 201), up until Governor Connally finally sets down the hat he was holding in his right hand into his lap (at frame 280). That's right - it is an indisputable fact that he continued to hold the hat in his right hand for at least 79 frames after he has been struck in the right wrist by the "magic bullet." As you must realize, no one who has had their wrist shattered by a bullet is going to be able to maintain their grip on anything, let alone maintain that grip for nearly five seconds while turning in two directions (around to look at Kennedy, and then forward again). Plus, he set the hat down gently - it did not go flying, and he did not drop it, so even at frame 280 he has not yet been struck in the wrist. As I pointed out in the first paragraph of post #4915 he probably was struck around frame 288 or later. Anyone who will examine what is shown during these 5 seconds of the Zapruder film will simply have to agree that the "magic bullet" theory has been totally debunked by this clear and irrefutable evidence, and will have to agree that more than 1 shooter was involved. There can be no other possible conclusion unless we are expected to believe that it took fully 5 seconds for the magic bullet to exit Kennedy's throat, strike Connally in the back, exit Connally's chest, and then shatter his right wrist as it passes through the wrist and into his thigh. The hat is the key, and is "the smoking gun," when it comes to the "magic bullet" theory. Until it is pointed out, no one notices it because everyone who watches the film is focused on the Kennedy's and especially upon JFK's head. No one looks at the hat, which is the key to understanding what did and what did not happen.

Rick

[aljhoa]

ALEC’s Extreme Legislative Agenda for 2014 | PR Watch
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) meets in Washington, DC this week for its "States and Nation Policy Summit," which is one of the ways ALEC crafts and pushes its legislative agenda for the coming year.

ALEC posted part of its legislative agendas for the meeting for the first time this month, while continuing to hide its funders and corporate authors of special interest legislation, as the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) has reported. On ALEC's agenda for 2014 are the following priorities and bills (which will become official ALEC "models" once passed by the task forces -- with corporate lobbyists voting as equals alongside state legislators -- and approved by the board of directors):

Opposing U.S. Consumers' Right to Know the Origin of Our Food:
Undermining Workers' Rights:
Undermining the Rights of Injured Americans to Hold Corporations Accountable:
Undermining Public Education and Lining the Pockets of For-Profit School Companies:
Stripping Environmental Protections:
Limiting Patient Rights and Undermining Safety Net Programs:

Al

[dutchdivco]

That why

its called the 'magic bullet'; able to do things no 'ordinary' bullet can/would.

But again; you are dissecting the Zapbruder film, frame by frame, and in other ways doing a detailed examination of everything. I think MOST peple haven't gone to that much effort; and yet a vast majority of Americans DON'T believe the one shooter (Oswald) from the back theory. And, while each paerson may have their own reasoning, I think for the 'average' American, it was Jackies scramble BACK onto the trunk, that 'did' it for them, as it does for me.

Not faulting your work at all, just saying a lot of people don't get into the minutia of the Gov't reports, Warren Commision, autopsy, etc. Even the point you make about Connelly's hand and hat, is a subtle one; Jackie climbing onto the trunk is so,...obvious it doesn't really need 'interpretation'. S'all I'm saying.
Jim

[Mad Scientist]

For most people I think it simply gets down to a gut feeling in that too many aspects of the “official story” just don’t make sense.

However I have my own magic bullet theory: Oswald shots at JFK from behind but misses, the bullet then does a 180 degree turn and comes around and hits him from the front. Thus Oswald is still the guilty party.

That has got to be as good as anything in the Warren Report.

[5150]

and to think "OUR" taxes go to pay and support this lying cheating covering-up government that keeps secrets from it's people and then claims "national Security". The people are not good enough to know whats their own government is doing. Its so criminal and such a racket!

Everyone in Washington DC needs a ride through Dallas in a convertible IMHO.

One day they will all pay for their transgressions and corruption ! ! !

[rickoff]

Not faulting your work at all, just saying a lot of people don't get into the minutia of the Gov't reports, Warren Commission, autopsy, etc. Even the point you make about Connally's hand and hat, is a subtle one; Jackie climbing onto the trunk is so,...obvious it doesn't really need 'interpretation'. S'all I'm saying.
Jim

Actually, Jim, Jackie's act of climbing onto the trunk lid has been interpreted at least three ways. The correct interpretation is the one Clint Hill supported - that Jackie was retrieving a large chunk of JFK's skull/brain matter. Of the other two interpretations, I already mentioned that I myself had believed, after watching the Zapruder film in full motion, that Jackie had climbed out onto the trunk lid to help Clint Hill get into the car. Clint's primary assignment was to protect Jackie, while other agents were assigned to protect JFK. That interpretation is incorrect, since close examination of the Zapruder film and other films show that Jackie did not reach for Clint's hand. She was concentrating on something else, and Clint grabbed her right forearm as he climbed aboard and pushed her into the back seat. The third interpretation is that she was trying to get out of the car for fear of being killed herself, and that interpretation led to two differing conclusions, the first being that the kill shot was delivered by a person riding in the car. Some theorists thought they saw the driver turn around and shoot JFK, while others thought it was Connally. A careful examination eliminates both these persons as suspects. As for the remaining option - that Jackie simply thought that leaving the car was safer than remaining in it - that really makes no sense. Whether shots were being fired from behind or in front (or both, as hit man assassin James Files stated) it would make absolutely no sense for Jackie to climb onto the trunk lid, as this could only place her in an elevated and wide open position as a far easier target. Her best option, if thinking of her own life, would have been to drop down as low as possible, just as Connally and his wife had done, and which would be the natural instinctive move that anyone would make to avoid being shot.

So, like you say Jim, figuring what this was really all about does not require a degree in forensic analysis. It only require that we have common sense. And the same goes for Connally's hat, since there is no possible way he could have held onto that for 5 seconds with his right hand if his right wrist had been shattered by the "magic bullet" that passed through JFK's throat. The "magic bullet" theory was only dreamed up by the Warren Commission as a way of explaining how one bullet could have caused 7 wounds in two different people. They had to go with this theory because 3 spent cartridges were found on the floor in the Book Depository's "sniper's nest," and two of the shots were otherwise accounted for - one being the first shot fired, which missed, and the other being the fatal head shot. Incidentally, the one shot which missed is said by persons who have seen the original untainted Zapruder film to have actually struck the Stemmons Freeway sign. That bullet then went on to strike a curb near the underpass and a fragment of the bullet struck a bystander near the curb. The Warren Commission never even considered the possibility and high probability of a second or multiple shooters, and that is because they were quickly advised by the FBI that there was no available evidence to support a theory that anyone other than Oswald was involved. Jim Garrison's investigation into the "magic bullet" theory, and his other findings of an organized plot to kill Kennedy, which were made known in the film "JFK," were no doubt the strongest of influences in swaying public opinion against the Warren Commission findings. It is too bad, though, that Garrison, and the film, didn't focus on Connally's hat rather than attempting to disprove the "magic bullet" by showing a diagram of an impossible trajectory path. As "debunkers" later correctly pointed out, Connally was seated lower than JFK, and further inwards from the side of the car, than Garrison's diagram showed, and thus the debunkers offered the conclusion that the single bullet trajectory was quite possible. Had the hat been brought into consideration, though, the debunkers would have no leg to stand on, as a single bullet theory then becomes an impossibility.

Rick

[rickoff]

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[aljhoa]

Some theorists thought they saw the driver turn around and shoot JFK, while others thought it was Connally. A careful examination eliminates both these persons as suspects.

Here is a summary of a careful examination>

The driver, Bill Greer shooting jfk is not an opinion, theory, conspiracy theory, or a possibility. It is an obvious fact that was finally acknowledged by myself, and ignored by literally hundreds of conspiracy kooks for the last 50 years.

"Handgun used"

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected '…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: “It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.” <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: “It would be like you’re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.”

Al

[dutchdivco]

Ah, Rick

You've pointed out something which never even occurred to me; that the 'natural', normal reaction to being in a car that is being shot at would be to duck down, (even if riding in a convertible at slow speed), rather than trying to 'bail'.

And yeah, for those that want to go that far, the holding a hat for 5 seconds after your wrist is shattered by a bullet is a little tough to swallow. I SUPPOSE someone might suggest that ones grip might even tighten, (from the pain) but while I've never had my wrist shattered by a bullet, I DON'T think I would hang onto my hat.

But I go back to what I said earlier, and personalise it, rather than trying to project my thinking on to others; For ME, Jackie scrambling onto the TRUNK of the car, to recover 'parts' of Jacks scull, says the shot couldn't have come from behind, and MUST have come from the front. Any autopsy photos, drawings, or notes which indicate a small opening in the rear, or large in the front have to be wrong.

I think the Warren Commision was told they MUST come to a single shooter conclusion "For the best intersts of the Nation", but tha doesn't mean that those who made such an order, were necesarily allied with those who assasinated Kennedy. Some, at least, if not all may have genuinely believed that 'the people' NEEDED such an explanation.

For instance, (as would or at least MAY have been hypothesised at the time), suppose the evidence points to Oswald as having been a Soviet agent, and ACTING as an agent when he shot Kennedy; i.e. it was the Soviets who were behind it. The American people would demand we nuke the Soviet Union.

So, here 'all I'm saying' is that just because you have a cover-up, doesn't mean that the people involved in the cover up are allied with those who perpetrated the original act; that they may be covering up for their OWN reasons. The above is one, situation specific example, more generally, to avoid exposing a mistake, something like 'Fast and Furious' or Benghazi; at the very least, these kind of reasons would be used to convince some people to 'go along' with a cover-up.

So, for instance, an honest but never spoken comment by a memeber of the Warren Commission might be "I honestly don't know WHO killed Kennedy, and I don't want to. But, we told the American people what they needed to hear, and what they could 'stand' to."

I'm not saying its'right', just saying. It seems to me that at the least, Hoover MUST have 'gotten to the bottom of it', and known who was involved. And he WAS pretty actively involved in covering it up, as well. Anyway, good job of detailing some of the inconsistencies or whatever, as always. Jim

[rickoff]

Here is a summary of a careful examination>

Quote:
Originally Posted by frisco kid
The driver, Bill Greer shooting jfk is not an opinion, theory, conspiracy theory, or a possibility. It is an obvious fact that was finally acknowledged by myself, and ignored by literally hundreds of conspiracy kooks for the last 50 years.

"Handgun used"

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected '…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: “It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.” <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: “It would be like you’re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.”

Al, please don't tell me that you are one of those people who still believe that Secret Service agent William Greer, the driver of JFK's limousine, was the person who fired the fatal head shot. To be sure, there is a frame within the Zapruder film which lends some credence to that theory, because there is something glistening in sunlight that does resemble somewhat the shape of a handgun. Here's a slow motion sequence of the frames images which lead to that particular 'handgun' frame:


As you can see, the above frame images are of rather poor resolution, and this is what causes a faulty analysis of what is seen. Now examine the image below, and I'm sure you will agree that what is seen is not a handgun:


What we can clearly see from this higher resolution sequence is that the theorized 'handgun' is nothing more than sunlight reflecting off the top of the head of SS agent Kellerman, who is seated beside Greer. Thus, the "obvious fact" stated by frisco kid has no semblance of fact whatsoever.

Another thing which the above frame sequences clearly depict is that Greer hit the brakes at the start of the sequence. You can see that both Greer and Kellerman, as well as the Connally's, are thrown forward by the near instantaneous halting of the car's motion. Kellerman's head appears to actually slam into the dashboard, and Greer's head seems to hit the steering wheel. The car had not exceeded 11 mph, but even at that speed the force of an instantaneous stop is something the human body cannot withstand without being violently thrust forward. Try this yourself at just 5 mph, with only a lap belt, and no shoulder restraint, and you will see exactly what I mean. What this proves is that the limo actually did come to an abrupt and full stop, just as reported by those who have seen the original untainted version of the Zapruder film.

As to the quoted statements that you posted, what they actually agree upon is the fact that the fatal head shot was a high velocity bullet fired from fairly close range, and that the sound of that shot was very loud. You will note that these observations are all characteristic of the actual kill shot weapon, a Remington Fireball, which was fired by hit man James Files. It is a very accurate, high velocity weapon which has a very loud report, as well as a flash when fired, and James Files was positioned at close range to JFK, having a perfect line of fire for the kill shot. The shot coming from Files' admitted location behind the fence at the grassy knoll is supported by witness Lee Bowers, the railroad switching tower operator, who saw smoke and flash at the fence, and at least six eyewitnesses at the overpass reported hearing a loud bang and seeing gun smoke at the fence. Zapruder himself stated that the kill shot sounded like it came from behind him and was very loud. So James Files' admission to being the kill shot assassin fits in perfectly with the actual evidence, the eyewitness accounts, and the statements which you quoted.

[gene gene]

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[rickoff]

I think the Warren Commission was told they MUST come to a single shooter conclusion "For the best interests of the Nation", but that doesn't mean that those who made such an order, were necessarily allied with those who assassinated Kennedy. Some, at least, if not all, may have genuinely believed that 'the people' NEEDED such an explanation.

Yes, those would be the same people who believe that the American public should never know the dirty truth about anything that involves government corruption, government involvement in nefarious acts, and government cover-up of such acts. Everything must be whitewashed and sanitized to make it appear that the government is blameless.

For instance, (as would or at least MAY have been hypothesized at the time), suppose the evidence points to Oswald as having been a Soviet agent, and ACTING as an agent when he shot Kennedy; i.e. it was the Soviets who were behind it. The American people would demand we nuke the Soviet Union.

First of all, Oswald was clearly acting as a CIA operative when he went to Russia and "defected." His CIA handler was the same person who was a handler for James Files and his assassin associates. Oswald had reportedly told the State Department of his intention to defect, and to offer up top secret information to the Soviets. If this were so, then it makes no sense whatsoever that when Oswald decided to return to the US that the State Department would have granted him, as well as his Russian wife, immediate fast track visa status for the trip home, unless of course the reason for doing so would be to arrest and prosecute him as soon as he returned and stepped off his flight. The fact remains, however, that he was not arrested and prosecuted for treason.

Secondly, the idea that the American people would have demanded that we nuke Russia if Oswald had been part of a Russian plot to kill JFK is nonsensical. During the cold war period, the American public was very frightened at the possibility of a nuclear war with the Soviet Union, which we all knew would mean mutually assured total destruction. Very few people could afford the expense of building and adequately stocking a hardened fallout shelter below ground, and even the ones who could would not have wanted or demanded a nuclear strike against the Soviet Union. Everyone else would have been horrified at the prospect of nuclear war.

It seems to me that at the least, Hoover MUST have 'gotten to the bottom of it', and known who was involved. And he WAS pretty actively involved in covering it up, as well. Anyway, good job of detailing some of the inconsistencies or whatever, as always. Jim

Yes, Hoover knew who was involved because he was in on the plot. His involvement in the plot, and his cooperation and control of the FBI investigation and cover-up afterwards was essential in pulling off the assassination while keeping the American public in the dark.

[rickoff]

Quotable quote of the day....


"It's starting. New York City Police have sent notices to people who own 5 round rifles and shotguns ordering them to give up their weapons. Yes, you read that correctly. Law abiding citizens who possess guns with the appropriate permit are being ordered to ignore their Second Amendment rights and give up their weapons. These law abiding citizens registered their guns, as they were supposed to, and now the city is using that information to go after their guns." - TEA Party.net news flash 12/09/2013

This unconstitutional activity by authorities in New York City should be of grave concern to all Americans who stand for freedom and Constitutional rights, whether they are gun owners or not. If this is not stopped quickly then it will spread quickly to other cities, and then to suburbs everywhere in the USA, and when all the registered guns have been taken then the few rights and freedoms which remain will be taken from the People by their tyrannical government with ease.

[Mad Scientist]

Let’s see weren’t we told that gun registration was only meant to get guns out of the hands of the bad guys, well we can now clearly see just who all these bad guy are. I wonder if this will wake the sheeple up?