The American Ruling Class

[rickoff]

A couple of major developments.....

1. I haven't had the time available to read much of anything here other than the most current posts, but can see that ObummerCare is still a hot topic. I believe that the thing about the unAffordable Care Act which infuriates people the most is the individual mandate which attempts to force the People to purchase something they may not want or need, and which then attempts to extort payments in the form of tax penalties if the People do not comply and purchase what the "government" proclaims must be purchased. This smacks of what is commonly referred to as a "protection racket," which gangsters have long used to extort payment from business owners and individuals by demanding payment in exchange for "protection." The only protection really needed, of course, was protection from being bobbed, beaten up, or killed, by the thugs who operated the protection racket, and these thugs were quick to make examples of anyone who resisted their demands. To make matters worse, there was practically no legal recourse against these thugs because they liberally "greased the palms" of local law enforcement officers and corrupt city officials to get them to "look the other way" while these thugs went about their business. It is the same way with the Ruling Class, and our so-called federal and state "government" officials acting as bedfellows, pretending to be acting in our best interests to "protect us," while actually only devising one scheme after another to defraud and deceive us as they dip their filthy hands further into our pockets to take what little we have left.

Well, we all know that ObummerCare is unconstitutional, and we all know what it is really all about and discussed that in great detail, but now I am going to show you proof that the "government," the SCOTUS, and mainstream media have been lying to the People about ObummerCare. I guarantee that this will definitely open the eyes of anyone reading it - even someone like myself with impaired vision! The truth can be found in 42 U.S. Code, Section 18115, and is explained at the Cornell University Law School website. The text of this U.S. Code reads, "No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs." If you click the 'Notes' tab at the Cornell website you will see that "this Act," as mentioned in the Code, is clearly referring to ObummerCare: "This Act, referred to in text, is Pub. L. 111–148, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 119, known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

2. And now for the second matter of great importance, which is the fact that the People's Grand Jury movement, which I had written about earlier, has taken off like a skyrocket. New York was the first state to constitute a People's Common Law Grand Jury (CLGJ), on February 27, 2014, and to date there are 5 additional states which are fully constituted (meaning that all counties in those states are represented in their CLGJ's). Here are the states which followed New York's lead, and the dates they were constituted:

Florida 3-15-14
Connecticut 3-15-14
Rhode Island 3-15-14
New Jersey 3-22-14
New Hampshire 3-29-14

Here in Maine we are meeting in the state's capitol city, Augusta, on April 12th to constitute the Maine Common Law Grand Jury. I'll be there with others representing my county, and all the other Maine counties, for this historic event. Across the nation, all remaining states are currently working diligently to constitute their own CLGJ's. I encourage every one reading this to step up and take action now to help constitute a CLGJ in the counties of your state. Nothing can be considered more important at this time, and once all the state CLGJ's have been constituted we can then begin the task of taking back our nation. This process will begin by informing each state's Superior Court judges, Clerks of Court, and county sheriffs of their duty to uphold and obey their sworn oaths, and to conduct themselves in accordance and compliance with Common Law and the Constitution under the watchful eyes of the CLGJ's. Failure to comply and cooperate with the CLGJ's will result in indictment, and removal from their positions. New York is already several steps into that process, and as can be expected, the affected office holders have been quite reluctant to cooperate and comply, hoping of course that the CLGJ movement will give up and go away. The New York CLGJ is showing them, though, that their CLGJ will follow through in enforcing their demands upon the officials through indictments. See for yourselves the power of a CLGJ in action, through a Quo Warranto Writ filed March 24th, and a subsequent Writ of Prohibition filed March 26th, warning the magistrates of the NY Supreme court not to attempt wresting control of the Quo Warranto Case away from the CLGJ.

Similar actions are underway now in the other states which have already constituted a CLGJ, and these actions will soon sweep across the nation, empowering the People and defeating the tyrants who have been destroying our legal system, and thus our nation, under practice of deceptions and the "color of law," which is not law and is only a fiction.

[5150]

Rick,

Welcome back and glad to hear you’re recovering somewhat. I’m sorry to hear of your serious situation and the terrible fall. I hope you get back to full speed soon.

I was a little disappointed to hear that you might not be here posting as much even after you recover as your attention is focused other priorities. I know this thread is important to you and that you will be back here regularly just to check up on it but I do enjoy our exchanges and all the back and forth from all the regulars here.


As for the Peoples Grand Jury I really have no faith in that working, for me it’s just another circle the small sector of the disenfranchised people will be sent in. Think the Patriot movement, the Tea Party, the Oath Keepers, and all the other such movements, organizations and ideas that have all not been able to kill the beast. It is my firm belief that the only real way to make any change is by force with armed revolt and I just don’t see that happening until the ruling class have basically stripped the world of everything and the masses are pushed into a position of having nothing left but to fight.

The Peoples Grand Jury might get some traction and even become a huge movement but like the Bitcoin the powers that run the world will yank the rug out from under the movement when it becomes a pain in their backside. This will happen by creating some new legislation or twisting laws already on the books to make such a people uprising illegal and those who participate dangerous criminals and therefore those people will be swiftly dealt with.

The reality is very clear for me and that is these people in power simply need to be removed by force and if they resist they need to be killed on the spot. Treating them the same as they treat the people they supposedly represent. Until then it’s the same old record or song being played the only difference is who (the elected official who is voted in) that gets to wind up the record player.

Again Glad your back!

[dutchdivco]

There is a 'standard'

way that 'beurocracies' and 'hierachies' deal with a 'rebellious' effort or movement; (Read this somewhere, and its so true);
Firstly, they 'ignore' it; as ANY effort on the part of the 'powers that be', would be counter-productive, it would draw attention to the movement, and help it build.
Second, discredit and 'outlaw', using dis-information/distortion, to make the 'rbels' seem like 'crackpots and criminals'; we see this all the time, look at 'tea party' treatment in the media, or Assads representation of rebels, etc.

And, the IRS treatment of 'tes party' groups, as mis-using power to suppress/frustrate, etc.

The third and final phase, after these first 2 fail, (often with 'bloody' effects for some on both sides), is, they ABSORB the 'rebel' movement. The 'hierarchy' (Powers that be) accept and inculcate SOME of the goals, beliefs, and aims of the rebel movement, but they exact a price; the 'movement must become 'mainstream', and work within the 'system'.

We certainly will see this play out with this effort, as it seems universal. How the THIRD 'phase' works out, I don't know, as i'm unsure of exactly WHAT the goals, aims, and beliefs of this effort are; to hold the Gov't accountable to the people, and insist they follow the Constitution and Common Law? Well, TPTB certainly aren't going to accept that very readily, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see?

There ARE sometinmes when the 'powers' simply CAN'T do the 3rd part, like in Syria, where ASSAD isn't going to accept stepping down, and the rebels aren't going to accept less. That MAY be what will happen with this, if steps 1 and 2 aren't succesful. And THATS usually the situation in which you get a 'civil' war, so, 5150, IF they can't 'ignore', or discredit/suppress, you MAY get what you are saying you want. Personally, I THINK TPTB ALWAYS workk for a 'win/win' situation. But normally, 'win/win/ means you and I have differences, and we negotiate to where we BOTH get something, hence 'win/win'; TPTB see it differently; whichever way it turns out, "I" win; now THATS a 'win/win' result. Hence, the reason why they are CALLED 'Revolutions'; the SAME people, (or TYPE of people) eventually end up on top, again! As for me and mine, we won't be 'manning the barricades', we'll be keeping our head down, and 'heading for the hills'. To each his own!Jim

[FuzzyTomCat]

NSA SPYING on AMERICANS

Howdy all,

The NSA collection of United States citizens Phone and Email data is not only the worlds largest identity theft accomplished but "can or will" be used to make a backdoor listing method or form of a HOME "registry firearm data base". This is accomplished by the tracking and recording of all firearm and ammo retail store outlets, distributors, wholesalers, manufactures or gunsmiths phone numbers that are called to and phone numbers received from both party's. The thinking behind this is because, only firearm holders would be contacting these firearm and ammo retail sales outlets, distributors, wholesalers, manufactures or gunsmiths for purchasing items of firearm owner interests. This data transaction could include a credit card which usually uses a dedicated phone line and possibly a internet email receipt all using a time/date stamp which is traceable and track-able to any United States citizens HOME. This fishing net method would be used by law enforcement agencies for any possible firearm types and quantity located inside the home for SWAT teams on future upcoming firearm confiscations.

The reasons for the United States government to do this is the mandated "firearm confiscation" is for appeasement of the United Nations small firearms treaty or "BAN" that's on Obama's desk right now waiting for his signature and phone blessing, or the left wing Liberal movement to omit all American law abiding citizens or military veterans to possess firearms because the existing laws and strong arm tactics can provide Americans personal protection, or because of the Affordable Care Act with 69,000 medical illness codes ranging from intergalactic alien to jelly fish injury's all having a code number, but illnesses like PTSD plus many others will be named, marked and classified as "NO FIREARM POSSESSION" afflictions. Agencies all having personal medical records available for use, scrutiny and remedy of implementation by the IRS and 5 million other Federal, State, County, City personnel and Private Agency's and their personnel. This would also coincide with the harsh new EPA regulations from the Obama administration from 2008-2013 that has crippled all three of the existing United States "lead smelters" whom actually closed because of the EPA regulations and fines that were imposed upon them ..... "no lead" means no bullets or ammo for guns or firearms, unless lead or ammo/bullets are imported from another country.

Please note Obama ordered the Justice Department on Thursday he sought a 90-day extension and got it Friday 28, 2014 of the National Security Agency’s current phone surveillance program, while Congress debates his proposed reforms and to finish his administrations covert collection agenda on all law abiding documented United States citizens.

Best Hopes,
Glen

[rickoff]

Quotable quote of the day....

Ron Paul appeared before a standing room only crowd at Syracuse University just recently, and spoke these simple but timely words:

Paul told the students, “the answer isn’t more government, the answer is more liberty."

[rickoff]

A&E for 9/11 truth update

During the past few months, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth has concentrated their "ReThink 9/11" efforts on informing Canadians that there is a lot more to the 9/11 story than they were told by government and media. Placards were placed in buses and subway trains, and on the top of taxi cabs, and billboards were set up in many places. Currently, a 17 city tour of Canada by A&E and other truth movement speakers is underway, and public attendance and enthusiasm at these events has been remarkable. As a result, public awareness has been heightened and already there are more than 45 persons who have stepped forward to run for Canadian Parliament positions on a platform of 9/11 truth. If most, or all of these candidates get elected, it will send a really strong message to the PTB types who hoped that the 9/11 truth movement would all fade away.

Twenty-four Canadians were said to have been killed as a result of the 9/11 events, and three other people with close Canadian connections were also killed. Some of them had Canadian relatives or were born in Canada, but later took American citizenship.

[FuzzyTomCat]

President Obama met with various religious leaders of the Christian, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and some other faiths less known in a effort to bring more revenue to the United States Treasury. The plan Obama outlined to each of the religious leaders was a new TAX percentage on tithing collections taken from followers at their place of worship ..... Obama's ground breaking plan is to have GOD totally involved in the process as Obama is a man of faith. The new Obama progressive plan and fundamental change with a pen and phone in hand to the TAX system, is that all money and funds collected daily would be tossed in the air, what ever GOD wanted and needed God would take, any money or funds that falls or hits the ground would be collected by a government IRS minder being called a "fair" TAX for the United States Treasury to revolutionize and streamline collection. This new plan left the religious leaders speechless, giving Obama the impression of approval he needed to proceed.

[rickoff]

Good one, Glen. And while we're on the subject of "government" schemes to tax and spend us into oblivion, I think it is worth mentioning Barry's latest scheme to confiscate the lifetime savings of the American public. He's calling it his "MyRA" plan. He wants everyone to think that it is a safer alternative than current retirement accounts, and that this plan will protect their assets since they will be backed by US Bonds. In actuality, this is nothing less than an asset grab that will finance the staggering US debt. It is not just coincidence that the total of individual US retirement savings accounts currently stands at about $19 trillion, which is slightly more than the "official" US debt figures, and the "government" is desperate to come up with a way to finance this debt. Of course the way to pull this off is by converting all current retirement accounts into purchase of US Bonds. The owners of these accounts would see statements showing how much interest they are earning on the bonds, which won't be much, but they will be lulled into believing that this is the safest way to protect their savings. Meanwhile, while this all looks safe on paper statements, the actual savings will have been depleted, pretty much in the same way that the Social Security Trust Fund was depleted. The assets will be used to "pay down" current debt, and to finance current and new budget deficit expenditures.

I first spoke of this plan many months ago. Congress has been eyeing the confiscation of retirement assets for several years now as being perhaps their only way out of the debt boondoggle which they have created. Quite the dastardly plan, don't you think?

Of course it doesn't much matter what plan an individual's monetary assets are "invested" in if those assets are denominated in US dollars, because of the following two reasons:
1. As has been pointed out earlier, US dollars have no real value whatsoever, as they are not backed by anything of actual value. Therefore, all those retirement "nest eggs" are already virtually worthless, and only have what is now a perceived value.
2. When the US dollar falls from its standing as the world's reserve currency, which is something you can count on happening in the near future, even the perceived value of the dollar will drop to a zero (or near zero) level. Those who thought they had socked away enough monetary assets to last through their retirement years will have an extremely rude awakening some morning when they find that their US dollar savings of $100,000 or more has been devalued to the point where it won't buy much more than a single trip to the grocery store, and of course only then if the grocery store owner is willing to accept a currency which is rapidly declining to a near zero value. Store owners will most certainly begin demanding payment in some other currency which does appear to have some stability, and of course that would be the new world reserve currency. Some think that this new currency will be the Amero, or perhaps a Chinese replacement, but whatever it is called it will be foisted upon us by the NWO banksters, and will once again be a currency which only has perceived value.

It is said that a plan is underway to thwart the NWO's destruction and replacement scheme, and that plan can be reviewed in the video found here. Basically, this involves the printing and distribution of gold-backed US Treasury notes. Some of what is stated in the video makes sense and is verifiable, while certain other statements (such as the creation of the federal Reserve and World Bank originally being a noble effort for the good of mankind) certainly arouses disbelief. Whether or not this plan is actually taking place at this time, and whether or not it has a chance of succeeding if it actually is underway, are two questions that must be asked. Quite obviously, if we have heard about the plan then the NWO is also aware of it and we know they would use everything in their power to attempt to stop it, and the people involved in it, dead in their tracks. There is no way that they could willingly allow such a plan to be carried out. Some believe that the "disappearance" of flight 370 has something to do with this, and of course that is just as possible as any other idea concerning what became of the plane, especially if it had been carrying a cargo of gold-backed currency meant for distribution. That scenario, of course, could play out in perhaps 2 different ways:
1. The NWO could have arranged for hijacking, diverting, and possibly destroying the aircraft and its cargo.
2. The flight may have intentionally been flown to a destination other than its officially scheduled one in order to foil the NWO and ensure safe passage of the cargo.

A story about flight 370 having landed at a US military base known as Diego Garcia has been widely circulated on the Internet, and while some of the story details seem a bit far-fetched, Diego Garcia does make sense in that it would have been much closer to being in line with the path of the plane as it turned back to the left and crossed over land before going out over the Indian Ocean. There would have been enough fuel to reach Diego Garcia, and the landing strip there is about 1,000 meters in length, certainly capable of handling the large aircraft. It's the perfect place to land if you want the world to believe that the plane simply vanished with no clue as to its location, which on the surface seems a rather absurd story. Another question to ask about this is why there has been non-stop coverage of the disappearance on newscasts, with little mention of anything else, for nearly a month now. There's a lot of important stuff going on in the world, and right here in the US, that receives either no mention or scant mention. It seems to me that this is more like the scene from The Wizard of Oz, where the person behind the curtain says "Don't look over there, behind the curtain. Pay no attention to that!" They clearly want everyone focused on a created drama.

[Tarkus]

Power does not corrupt

The old saying that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
In observation is incorrect, Power doesn't corrupt but it doe's attract corrupted
people, the greater the power the more attractive to the corrupt. This is not to say that all people going into "public service" are corrupted, those few who are not and hold to their integrity are sidelined, marginalized, discredited and made ineffective if they maintain effectiveness through public support then a multitude of scandals surface and if that doesn't do it, tragic accidents may happen.
This causes me to suspect anyone who "runs" for office, especially career politicians. (anyone who spends millions to get a job that pays thousands, something ain't right)
Anyone who wishes to dictate how others should/must live is already displaying signs of fear and insecurity which tends to promote corruption.
It's hard at times to remember that they are divine beings too

David

Break the chains

[dutchdivco]

Yes, Good 'Un, Glen

So Obummer says, (at least to CHRISTIANS); "So O.K., hand over the $. After all, Jesus SAID 'Render unto Caeser, that which is Caesers'."

Every example, so far, where 'we' have set up a 'program' where SOME of peoples $, during their 'productive years' is set aside for their retirement, and 'managed' by someone else, has resulted in theft. Pensions, Socia Insecurity, etc.

As you said Rick, when the amount of $ gets high enough, it becomes irresistable. No reason to think IRA's and 401K's will be any different.

There IS an 'underlieing issue', which gives rise to these various 'schemes'. Too many people DON'T 'put aside' enough, or even ANY, $ for 'retirement', or even for emergencies. Even after 2008, recent 'survey' showed most Americanson't have enough $ 'in reserve', to handle a major 'downturn'.

The ignorance is abysmal; most peole have little understanding of financial matters, or "How $ works". "Whatya mean, I don't understand how $ works; I go to the store, pay the $, and bring home the product! Of COARSE I 'understand how money works!' " wHICH IS LIKE SAYING "i UNDERSTAND HOW A CAR WORKS! I PUT IN THE KEY, START THE CAR, PUT IT IN DRIVE, AND GO!

But, most people, (a considerable majority) have no understanding of how their car works, their body works, or their Gov't works, spo WHY would we expect them to understand how $ works??

To me, something which was really,...'instructive'. Remember when Moodies 'downgraded' U.S. treasury bonds, sighting not only the political disfunction surrounding the 'shutdown' (paraphrasing THIER words) but clearly stated it was ALSO because of long term obligations, and overall fiscal mis-management; Entitlements, etc.

The thing is, there was NO significant move away from vesting in U.S. treaury bonds, even after this 'downgrade'. WHY? Because the 'market' looked at the OTHER places 'it' could invest, and 'detirmined' (market forces, etc.) that, DESPITE what we all see, know and post about, concerning how f*cked up the U.S. government is, and how out of whack its finances are, that that U.S. treaury bonds were still,......'safer' investment than ANYTHING ELSE!

Now, this is important, children. Interest paid on investment is based on percieved risk, the greater the risk, the higher the interest. And, U.S. treasury bonds are the 'benchmark'; They are percieved as having the LOWEST risk, of AY investment, anywhere in the world. And so, they are the baseline, and every other investments risk is calculated based on a comparison to the baseline of U.S. treasury bonds.

You see the IRONY? U.S. treasury bonds = WORTHLESS. Hence, any OTHER investment is like, even MORE worthless! So, the 'financial markets', in their infinite wisdom, are saying (to the 'waiter) "Yes, please. I'll have the S*it sandwich, cause its LESS UNPALATABLE than anything else on the menu!

The whole worldwide financial system is BASED on this 'premise', and if the premise is flawed, the whole system comes tumbling down. Put another way, what happens to your 'measuring system' (for 'detirming risk'), if the baseline, you use for detirmining everything else, is WRONG? Well, then no one really KNOWS how to establish the risk for anything else, and without being able to have an ageed upon way to detirmine risk, ALL financial transactions involving CREDIT, cease.

I look at the Corporate U.S. Government, with their f*cked up way of operating and think "And YOU (finacial makets, etc.) REALLY think THATS the 'BEST'? Are you f*cking KIDDING me?"

But 'we' keep on using this obviously broken system, cause NO ONE wants the alternative. Its "The Emporers New Clothes" exactly. Everyone wants to 'pretend' the Emporer has clothse, cause it beats the alterntive of admitting he's naked. (because laughing beats crying, MOT of the time.) Jim

[jdodson]

The other half is, you will have to continue to make sure you have no return coming, in the future, cause this penalty will 'sit' there, with interest, forever. Unless O'bummercare collapses, law repealed, etc.

I see what your saying now. So your not actually avoiding the penalty, your just avoiding having to PAY the penalty.
Im still not so certain that the penalty itself is not considered a tax...

ObamaCare Mandate: Exemption and Tax Penalty

According to that site, they are identifying the penalty AS a tax.

For those who can afford it and choose not to purchase health insurance the tax will be unavoidable.

This is similar to the system they set up years ago, to collect from 'deadbeat' Dads and Moms. IF you owe unpaid child support, and IF the custodial parent applies for Welfare, the state can then use a refund intercept mechanism to 'grab' your tax refund, and funnel it to the state.

Yes my thoughts exactly. Many people are in jail now due to unpaid child support.
So if they treat the obamacare penalty as a tax, they will have the same capabilities to garnish your income, make a payment plan, or arrest you for tax evasion.
I promise you, they wont sit back and let people collapse their system...how many times have we heard them say, "its the law of the land", gestapo tactics are next. Afterall king Obama can apparently change the law at will.

Thats ASSUMING their IS a return to some form of civilisation, which i think is quite an assumption. I have my doubts, frankly.

The thing is, there are 7 billion people in the world. Even after any form of depression or crash, the first thing people will do is recreate civilization. Unless some kind of pandemic happens. I don't think a crash will be global and I don't think it will reset the world. I think the dollar and euro will crash but the Chinese yen will probably survive and actually become the next reserve currency (unless America isn't happy about that and becomes the vocal leader of a world currency.) Think about it this way, when the US Dollar is no longer the reserve currency, would you rather see the Yen possess the power of the reserve currency or see a world currency?

I have bought foreign currency from all over the world. The new $100 Bill, is no longer American, its foreign. That was done on purpose.
Its no longer green..its blue, and has the reflective stripe. Green has always defined the dollar, why now must it blend with everyone else? They are preparing us for whats coming, to ease the transition.

IMHO...When this is all over americans will beg for the NWO. It will be the best answer to stabilize our own currency and prevent the Chinese century. Anyone notice Romney say, during the 2012 election, he wants the next century to be another American century. These people know what's happening.

I suggested gold because I expect a financial collapse, not a civilization collapse. Either way, everyone should stock up on weapons, food and medical supplies. For all anyone knows, a meteor could hit the planet and bring everything to a halt. Regardless of what happens to the dollar, gold will hold its value. Even if it decreases in value, if the dollar collapses whatever gold you have will still be worth more than the dollar...because it will be worthless.

RICKOFF!!
Great to see you back! Sad to hear of your fall, Glad your OK.
Hope your health improves!

[dutchdivco]

ACA, penalty and GOld

"Originally Posted by ObamaCare Mandate: Exemption and Tax Penalty
For those who can afford it and choose not to purchase health insurance the tax will be unavoidable."

Without even going to the source, checking 'context', etc. I QUESTION the validity of this statement.

There are multiple ways to address the penalty. 7 or more exemptions, first of all. Granted, with the caveat "those who can afford it" some don't apply; if you don't make enough income is one. But there are 'religious exemptions' although Obummer doesn't seem to care much about those.

Anyway, I searched the issue, and am pretty confident of the approach i am taking, at least in the short run. Like every decision in life, its a gamble.
I'm choosing to 'bet' that A)They won't change the law, to 'beef up' IRS's ability to collect, any time soon.B)This 'method' I'm using, (more about that in a minute) will work, at least short term, and doesn't peclude me using religious exemption, etc. later.
And C) The law will 'collapse' under its own weight, before I will be made to pay any penalty.

Now, when I searched it, it appears Rush Limbaugh was the first to raise this issue. Apperently as soon as the Law was passed, (so we could READ whats in it) he went over all 26,000 pages. HE first 'announced' and explained the collection of the penalty, as written in the law, and pointed out this 'loophole'; that the ONLY way IRS can collect the penalty is IF you have a return coming, they can withhold the penalty, and any interest BASED on the penalty, from your return. No return, no way for them to 'withhold', hence no way for them to 'collect'.

When he first promulgated this, on his radio show, it got a lot of attention, and numerous people looked at it, and the concensus was to AGREE with his reading. So, it will require a CHANGE to the law, as written; I don't THINK the IRS can deal with this, simply thru a 'regulation'. So Congress would have to change the law.

Coarse, even tho we were told, before passage and before SCOTUS ruling, that ACA was like a 'jigsaw' puzzle; take away ANY part, and the whole thing collapses. And then Obummer has proceeded to make change after change, ALL without any Congressional action.

The irony is, for those who take the approach I'm taking, its a GOOD thing for the individual, but a 'bad' thing from the point of the Gov't revenues. Its what financial advisors have been saying for YEARS, but that millions of Americans have ignored.

Lots of 'middle class', who USE the income tax withholding as a payroll deduction savings plan. You get no interest on the $, your letting Uncle Sam 'borrow' it, interest free, for the year. But, a lot of people LIKE getting that nice, big return at the end of the year.

For wife and I, this started with the 'stimulas', where they changed my wifes withholding. It was only MARCH, and they stopped withholding FED taxes from her paycheck. "Tax holiday', or whatever. In MY state, the STATE TAX is some % of the federal tax. You can 'choose' the %, on your state withholding form. Problem is, 2.5%, 10% or 50%, it doesn't matter! "X"% of -0- is -0-. And, my state wasn't 'giving' any tax 'holiday'. So, in order to insure we didn't end up owing a lot to the state, we checked "Additional amount you would like withheld from your check" on the FEDERAL form, simply to insure enough STATE taxes would be withheld.

As a result, we got back a big federal return, and a small state return, but didn't 'owe'. Anyway, the 'tax holiday' is over, and so Uncle sugar is not getting several 1000 $ interest free loan from us, anymore. If enough others take this approach, revenues COULD be affected. Its NOT that difficult, to leagally and legitimately change your 'withholding' so as to insure you PAY the 'right amount' of Federal taxes, but NOT paying in any 'extra'.

In particular, they have issued to changes; firstly, a delay in the COMPANY mandate, to charge (on their taxes) a PENALTY to companies (initially) over 50 employees, changed to 100. And,they have DELAYED that. O'bummers own former press secretary has said he thinks THAT will NEVER be enforced.

It was included, in order to make the 'independent Congrssional Budget Office" projections 'look' more palatable. Without this Mandate, the #'s change, significantly. And the CBO HAS to make its 'projections' based on the way things are; including the way laws are written. So, such projections continue to be based on the foundation that this employer mandate WILL be enforced. Any such projections are meaningless, and things would have to be re-calculated, if this mandate is never enforced.

The biggest 'threat' tho, still is the 'death-spiral', and I think Obummers little 'victory dance in the endzone' Rose Garden speech, is going to be looked back on as his "Mission Accomplished" speach. They say we could start to see what the insurance companies premiums, for NEXT year are going to be, prior to November, the next 'open enrollment' period.

They periodically tout the 4 million (last count) who have applied for medicaid.
And will continue to sign up, as it is year around nrollment. But, THOS people aren't, and never were relavent as to O'bummercare; the are the people who will be 'exempt' from the penalty, because they don't make enough $, even if they get a sizable 'return' because of earned income tax credit.

THEY won't effect the premiums at ALL, next year. Theoretically, DOWN the road, these people won't betting medical care from emergency rooms, that the hospitals aren't compensated for, and so the hospitals won't reflect this in increased charges (at least, this is the idea), but in the short term, these people won't have any effect on next years premiums. Those premiums will be a reflection of HOW many people sign up for, and use, health insurance, and further it will be in each market. If more sick/older people sign up, in the area where you live, than younger healthier people, the premium in the area where you live, will go up. In some areas, Ins. companies may well look at the #'s for a given area, and decide they don't even want to offer policies. So, there may well be areas of the country that ate 'dead zones', where NO insurance company chooses to 'bid', or 'enter the marketplace' by 'offering' a policy. In other areas, Premiums may go way up, to reflect the '#'s' in that area.

We already have the situation where a 40 y.o. male pays 'X' aount in Philedephia (sp?) and the same individual pays a very different amount in Wyoming. This situation always existed, of coarse. But now, its part of 'Obamacare'. We are already seeing stories of people in Cancer treatment, who can't get a policy which has their providers 'in network'. Wait till we see stories of peole who's premiums, even WITH the Federal assistance, are going to skyrocket (next year).

And, of coase there is the stu showing that 'poor' people, who not having insurance are USED to just going to the ER, continue going to the ER, even after having Insurance. So, its questionable THAT whole argument of 'bending the curve' is valid.

There actually ARE some things in the law I think are good; the change in re-imbursement is long overdue; Old way; a 67 y.o.man comes into the hospital, is treated and released, (Medicare billed). He is re-admitted to hospital, 1 1/2 weeks later, because hospital failed to accurately diagnose and treat th problem, and NOW he has 'complications, as a direct result of delay treatnment. GUESS what? Medicare gets billed, again. The NEW system, it is said, will pay according to results, not tests, and treatments, with LOTS of incentives for positive outcomes, and dis-incentives for negative ones. Depending on how it turns out, this COULD be a worthwhile and 'good' reform, long overdue. However, there will probably be bad incentives inadvertenty written into THIS law. After all, the "old sytem" I just detailed, was a result of previous legislation.

On Gold, its o.k. for 'long term preservation of wealth', both against inflation, and Apocalypse. For me and mine, I'd rather invest such $ in things that make us more self sufficient; solar panels, batteries, etc. Both lowers our current 'expenses', giving us even more $ to invest, and puts us in a better situation if/when SHTF.
Beyond that, I like things like cans of cigarette tobacco, sealed. Coffee, also in sealed cans. And chocolate bars, which hold up pretty good if stod cool and dry. Looking for things it would be difficult to make/grow yourself, so would be 'scarce' and valuable after SHTF, that store long term, and that people would want, because they would remind them of 'before'. And of coarse, ammunition, etc. Jim

[Joit]

NSA Documents archive.
https://www.aclu.org/nsa-documents-search
Exampel https://www.aclu.org/files/natsec/ns...nformation.pdf
https://www.aclu.org/files/natsec/ns...Inaccuracy.pdf

[wayne.ct]

Bond Alternative

Realizing that the US dollar is fast becoming worthless, some people are putting more of their assets in the stock market. The stock averages, after all, seem to keep rising. It is probably a trap, because if people stop buying/paying then the profits of these companies will likely collapse. Hard assets seem to be the way to go.

[dutchdivco]

Paper is paper

IF (or as many on this sight believe) WHEN the financial system collapses, the $ is 'recognised' as what it really is, etc. then ALL financial instruments value will be, at the very least, in question.

PERCIEVED risk is what is used to detirmine howmuch 'interest' is 'paid' on any investment. And it all starts with the U.S. treasuries, and by extention, the dollar. IT, (remember, its PERCIEVED risk) is seen as having the LOWEST risk, and therefore is the 'benchmark' every other investments risk is measured against. IF the 'financial market' ever wakes up, and realises that the $ has NO value, and extremely high risk, than no one will have any 'benchmark' to use, to establish the 'risk' for any other investment.

Eventually, of coarse, some other benchmark may emerge, but in the meantime all the 'horror' stories promulgated in 2008, of a 'collapse' of the financial markets, will happen. CREDIT markets will be frozen; banks won't loan to other banks, of anyone else, as they won't have a mechanism for evaluating risk; FOR ANY LOAN. No credit, and (as we saw on a relatively small scale) many businesses fold. Jobs lost, less purchasing, further company closings, and on and on.

Anyway, thats one possible scenario. Given the downgrade in credit rating, (and the reasons for it, including no budget in 4-5 years, etc.) and the fact it seemed to have no effect on the buying of treasury bonds, it may be the 'markets' will continue to pretend the Emporer has clothes, as its preferable to the alternative.

We are in stocks, only because wifes 401K only gives us that option, and we've done 'well' (on paper) these last 4-5 years. Matching funds, so we would have to 'loose' 50%, before we REALLY 'loose' anything, and even then, hey, its ONLY paper!

Yes, 'hard' assets are better, and if inflation is inevitable, as the FED ends Quantitative easing, it seems logical to 'buy now,as it will cost more later'.

There MAY even be some 'logic' in people who are heavily into credit, as in "Hey, we get the stuff, and if everything goes bad, we'll STILL have the stuff, and they can't re-possess from everyone. There were actually SOME people who lived for a year and a half, and paid no mortgage payment. But, I personally am not going that way. We have NO credit, no payments or interest, etc. Jim