The American Ruling Class

[rickoff]

You believe something is clear evidence of a conspiracy,such as the phone call, I believe there could be another explanation.

My whole point about the dozens of reported 9/11 cell phone calls being clear evidence that we were lied to by government sources is based on the fact that the calls could not have been made in the first place. If you have read the information at the links I provided you with then you will understand this, and know that there is no other explanation.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to make the downloaded program work to view the photos. Don't know whether it is deficient equipment or operator error. However, you and/or others reading this thread can do what I was going to do. Firstly, I would scroll thru the CNN memorial site, and randomly copy 4 or 5 other pictures of victims. Then go on the site of a major newspaper; NYTimes, New Orleans Picayune, whatever. Copy several pictures from them. Then 'run' them all thru the same program.Firstly, this may clearly show that all the victims pictures, and hence memorials were prepared prior to 9/11.

I'll see what I can do on this, Jim. Were you able to view EXIF data on any of the photos you called into the viewer?

If, in fact, ALL the photos of the 911 victims are shown to have been in the hands of AP before 911, and there is no reasonable explanation for these encrypted in the photos, than I would agree this is most disturbing evidence.

AP may very well have nothing to do with this whatsoever. Much more likely that the government prepared these photos, with the obituary information encoded into them, and shuffled them over to CNN right after 9/11.

How in the hell could AP have had victims photos well before 9/11? This is the first thing in the "Pro" conspiracy theory arguments, that makes no sense to me.

I thought you had been saying all along that several things seemed to make no sense to you. Now you have me confused.

Rick

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

Originally Posted by dutchdivco
How in the hell could AP have had victims photos well before 9/11? This is the first thing in the "Pro" conspiracy theory arguments, that makes no sense to me.

I thought you had been saying all along that several things seemed to make no sense to you. Now you have me confused.

Sorry, Rickoff.I thought from the context that my meaning was clear. Now I see in hindsight it may have been clear as mud.What I meant was that if we can eliminate a few things, such as this info being manipulated or altered, or that we're misinterpreting what it means, than there is no 'logical' explanation for how this material could have been prepared ahead of time.

No, I was able to open the pictures I copied, or downloaded, but I wasn't able to see them with the program. When I try to open the program, it asks which file?program? I want to use to open it, but none of the options it gives me, work.I think its a 'zip' file, and I don't have the program to open a zip file.

My thinking is this; we haven't discussed this yet, but OTHER THAN THE PASSENGERS,(and flight crews) do you believe that the other deaths attributed to 911 occurred. Specifically, that the workers in the towers who are said to have died when whatever happened to the towers, happened.That the people who jumped, really jumped, etc.

If so, some of their pictures are also in the CNN memorial.It would be very interesting to see what the encrypted data says on them; what date they were prepared, whether the same aqward speling/gramer exists in them.

If the aqward, etc. is in any photo viewed, then that explains that.If the dates on these other victims photos are after 9/11, and only the passengers are prepared before 9/11, it seems to me that is, let us say, very telling.
Its hard to imagine that 'THEY' would have prepared such material on all 3000 victims, or have known for sure who would and wouldn't be there.Seems to me its reasonable to pick a few, at random, and see whats encrypted in their pictures.

I'm not sure I understand why the media relations part of the operation would NEED to prepare this info and slip it to CNN or AP.Why not just let the news organisations do what they do? Still, the idea that anyone would be looking at photos of the victims prior to 911 is the first thing that I've seen that FOR ME, is a potential 'smoking gun'. I realise you, and many others who have long been believers of the conspiracy believe there are many smoking guns.

Much of this evidence is somewhat open to interpretation. 2 reasonable people can view the same evidence and come to different conclusions. And thats o.k. It doesn't validate or invalidate anything.

Look at it this way, Most murder cases don't have a 'smoking gun'. Those that do, are usually plea bargained. So, the cases that go to trial are cases where the evidence is open to interpretation.Juries decide based on their interpretation, and on a 'preponderance of the evidence.So, nothing wrong with circumstantial evidence, nothing wrong with evidence that is open to interpretation.

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

Originally Posted by dutchdivco
what about the plane in Pennsylvania? Why, if the passengers really did 'storm' the flight deck, didn't they get on the radio or their cell phones to say "There is no one on the flight deck, can you talk us down or something?"

That was flight 93, the one that Mark Bingham and other "victims" were supposedly on. I never said that Mark and some of the other passengers stormed the flight deck, and took over the aircraft. That was the "official" government story, and story by Mark's mom, that was handed to the media and drummed into the heads of public listeners and viewers. Isn't that where you got this from? It certainly wasn't from me. My version actually had flight 93 landing in Cleveland, Ohio.
Rickoff, If you re-read my post that you quoted from, this is taken out of context. This was relating to a scenario I posited, regarding how the cell phone calls could be legitimate, and there still could be a Conspiracy, because the alleged calls only involved the callers telling what they saw. Anyway, not important.

" And as I suggested to you earlier, let's leave all unprovable speculation out of posts, and concentrate only upon factual and verifiable evidence. It's fine to speculate all you want at home, but in this forum it only clouds and distracts from the issues. I would hope that is not your intention, but if you continue to post speculations, rather than facts and evidence, your credibility among forum readers will suffer and your intentions here will become rather questionable. Please keep this in mind and post accordingly, thank you."

Respectfully, it seems that this is exactly that; speculation.
" And in the worst case scenario, of course, they could simply declare that the video was faked by the person who said he shot it from the river. In fact, that may very well be the case. The video sequence shows the plane continually approaching the south tower on a level flight path, which is totally contrary to the NTSB stated flight data recorder information. That information has the plane continuously descending until impact in a steep dive from a high altitude."

[dutchdivco]

NTSB Reports

One of the problems I still have is with the NTSB reports. You use them to substantiate some of your evidence, and even seem to concede the video we discussed earlier could be phony, because it doesn't comport with the flight path as reported by NTSB.
Presumably, a main source of information for these reports would be the flight data recorders.They may have supplemented that with info from the air traffic control radar.As you pointed out, even if the transponders were turned off, there would still be a "Blip".
But, if it was a conspiracy, and the flights never crashed into the towers, the Pentagon, or the field, then WHAT flight data recorders?

The logical conclusion would be either the NTSB is 'in on it', or they were duped, and the flight data recorders were planted at the scenes of the 'crashes'. In which case all the data would have been manufacured, and can't be relied upon.

While we're on the subject, were the air traffic controllers 'in on it', or were they duped, as well? If they weren't in on it, wouldn't they have got a radar signal from whatever it was that flew into the towers, and also got a signal from the actual planes, and wouldn't they be screaming "What they are telling you is not what really happened!"

[bugler]

I don't mean to inspire fear on these forums. Only awareness is my intention. I'm not here to argue in the name of conspiracy. All evidence should stand for itself. Some would say that the individuals in my post title represent the problem and are "Zionists" who are undermining society with lies. I've seen no proof of this at all. Feel free to debate this video and its message, but i'm not here to defend it, only to help bring it in to view for some discussion.

thedude you have to know your sources of information. Alex Jones is extremely easy to discredit. He has many famous sentences like "ARabs own Hollywood" whic should inmediatelly discredit him.

911 was a mossad operation. Watch this video and you will clearly see the history of terrorism of these people: 9/11 Missing Links
Just follow the money and see who wins and who looses.

David Icke is not a reliable source of information either. I have read one of his books.

Follow this simple rule. The bad guys have names so when you get no names but just "New World Order" "Illuminati" etc you are not getting information but disinformation.

Cheers.

[rickoff]

Here is some very strange additional information concerning Mark Bingham. Mark is not listed in the Social Security Death Index (SSDI). I looked for myself at ancestry.com, where they have a free SSDI search utility. I have used this many times in the past to look up information on my own deceased relatives, and it works quite well. For Mark Bingham, I entered his name and searched, but found only one Mark Bingham listed, and it was someone else. Then I remembered that I had once seen something about him actually having a different name at birth, and changing it to Mark later on. His birth name was Gerald Kendall Bingham, and he was said to have been born May 22, 1970. So, I plugged that information into the SSDI search and tried again. Still no results!

After a bit of searching on the Internet, I found Mark's Social Security number, which is 264-63-7011. Normally, when you enter a name at the SSDI search, the person's SS# will pop up when the record is found, but you can also enter just the SS number, and the person's name will then be found and shown. You can try this with a deceased relative's SS#. So, I entered Mark's SS# and searched, and guess what? No results! Thinking it could be possible that this was just some freak anomaly, I decided to look into other "victims" on flight 93. What I found was rather jolting. Of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI. Only six! What is even more wacky is that none of the 45 "victims" was listed in the 9/11 victims compensation fund list.

If you go through the names of the "victims" for the other 3 flights, here's what you find out about them:

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)
Of these 92 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:
Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams
=======================================
Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)
Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:
William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor
=======================================
Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)
Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:
Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

What is even stranger still is the fact that Ellen Mariani, a woman who lost her husband on flight 175, attempted to locate relatives of the other "victims," but found that she was the only one! She and her lawyer, Phil Berg, revealed this on the January 15, 2004 Black Op Radio show (archive #156). Ellen refused to accept the victim's fund payout, and instead filed a class action RICO Act (Racketeer Influence & Corrupt Organizations) lawsuit against the government.

[rickoff]

Respectfully, it seems that this is exactly that; speculation.
" And in the worst case scenario, of course, they could simply declare that the video was faked by the person who said he shot it from the river. In fact, that may very well be the case. The video sequence shows the plane continually approaching the south tower on a level flight path, which is totally contrary to the NTSB stated flight data recorder information. That information has the plane continuously descending until impact in a steep dive from a high altitude."

No, that was not speculation. That was a direct answer to your question concerning how 'they' would explain flight 175's appearance if anyone noticed, and everything stated is rooted in factual evidence.

Rick

[nenergy]

Game Over

No, that was not speculation. That was a direct answer to your question concerning how 'they' would explain flight 175's appearance if anyone noticed, and everything stated is rooted in factual evidence.

Rick

Hey Rick,
can you elaborate on the looming War, recent events that have taken places.

John Bedini has mentioned frequently that he/we are running out of time and that we will need self generated electricity.

[aljhoa]

The Russian Experiment

John Bedini has mentioned frequently that he/we are running out of time and that we will need self generated electricity.

Private life in communist Russia, he says, reduced people to a breed of whisperers — people scared to give full voice to doubts or dissidence, and whispering dark secrets behind the backs of neighbors, friends and even family. Stalin's regime relied heavily on "mutual surveillance," urging families to report on each other in communal living spaces and report "disloyalty." Many people did what they could to survive, but they dealt with shame and guilt long after Stalin's reign.
'Whisperers' of Stalin's Russia Find Their Voice : NPR

What are the odds of free energy practicalities in OWO?
Al

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

Perhaps 'that river in Egypt' (Denial) is a difficult thing to break through.
Or maybe some evidence is more compelling to some people, than others.
Still unable to view the video, and so hung up on the commentators word "Try". Implies some doubt or anticipating some difficulty in showing us a live shot of air traffic screen.
The SS death registry info I find very intriguing. Have you tried running the names of any of the victims not on the flights?Would be interested in the results. Just a random few.
What do you feel this indicates? That some of these passengers are 'ghosts' that really didn't exist? What would be the purpose?
Is there any way to eliminate any 'other' explanation for why these names are not listed on the registry.i.e.Is there any 'legitimate' reason? I mean even something like someone is in the Fed. Witness protection program, and has a 'phoney' identity and dies. Would they be listed, either under their real or phoney identity? Obviously there wasn't a plane full of such 'witnesses'. I'm just saying is there a way of detirmining what are the criteria used for detirmining who is listed, and how their names/numbers are added to the registry? What 'triggers' there info being added? Is it when SS pays out death benefits?I don't think SS is automatically notified by the state, or the issueing of a death certificate. I could be wrong, its just that i recall in years past they have arrested people for continueing to cash the SS checks of dead relatives, for years after they died. On the other hand, maybe in order to prevent that they DO recieve some kind of notice now.
Thinking were there death certificates issued for the Victims? I seem to recall they were concerned about some committing fraud on the compensation fund, i.e. claiming a relative had died, who hadn't. I'm just trying to 'nail this down'. Any other explanation for why some people wouldn't be in the SS death registry?How does the registry deal with deaths in which there are no remains, for instance?
The earlier information we talked about, the info encrypted in the photos; would be interesting to 'cross-reference' it with the info from the death registry.i.e. those passengers who's photos were prepared prior to 9/11 also those whose names are not in registry?Jim

[nenergy]

OWO free energy is terrorism?

delete double post

[nenergy]

OWO free energy is terrorism?

Private life in communist Russia, he says, reduced people to a breed of whisperers — people scared to give full voice to doubts or dissidence, and whispering dark secrets behind the backs of neighbors, friends and even family. Stalin's regime relied heavily on "mutual surveillance," urging families to report on each other in communal living spaces and report "disloyalty." Many people did what they could to survive, but they dealt with shame and guilt long after Stalin's reign.
'Whisperers' of Stalin's Russia Find Their Voice : NPR

What are the odds of free energy practicalities in OWO?
Al

Little is known but those experiment were exported to our shores too.

Tavistock Institute - Stanford Research Institute.
All Tavistock and American foundation techniques have a single goal---to break down the psychological strength of the individual and render him helpless to oppose the dictators of the World Order. Any technique which helps to break down the family unit, and family inculcated principles of religion, honor, patriotism and sexual behavior, is used by the Tavistock scientists as weapons of crowd control.

The odds is none practicalities of Free Energy until NWO is implemented. Look at this site - (gate keeper), the crowd is steered from practical solution to experimental ones.

Then you will not need Free Energy as they will achieve their ultimate goal of control. Remember the 500 million limits of earth inhabitants.

It's about to go down.

[rickoff]

Still unable to view the video, and so hung up on the commentators word "Try". Implies some doubt or anticipating some difficulty in showing us a live shot of air traffic screen.

They were able to switch over quickly in the video. It only required a cameraman to pan over and focus on the computer monitor that the commentator was using for the demonstration. Why can't you view video? Connection too slow? If so, simply download the video to your hard drive while you are sleeping, and watch it the next day.

The SS death registry info I find very intriguing. Have you tried running the names of any of the victims not on the flights?Would be interested in the results. Just a random few.
What do you feel this indicates? That some of these passengers are 'ghosts' that really didn't exist? What would be the purpose?

Yes, the absence of so many of these names in the SSDI definitely reeks of something very ominous. If only a few were missing, this could be explainable. For instance, anyone who never had a SS card would certainly not be included in the index. This would only represent a small amount of the population of the United States, though. Anyone alive who has ever worked for even just one employer since the SS act was established would have an SS card. Likewise, all self employed people are required to have a SS number and pay a SS tax with their income tax return. Everyone wants to have an SS card so that they will be eligible to receive benefits when they retire - even rich folks who don't really need the income. The absence of "victim" names in the SSDI would certainly appear to indicate that either they are still alive, or may very well be ficticious characters. The purpose, of course, would be to make the conspirators' job much easier. They would only need a few deaths, for each of the reported flights, in order to produce evidentiary body parts at each of the three 9/11 "crash" sites. Eliminating a few unlucky people is much more easy than eliminating and disposing of hundreds. I will try running some further names, as you suggest, or you could easily do that yourself. Just go to the CNN victims by location website, and choose the specific group you want to look at (there are six - the 4 planes, WTC, and Pentagon). Make yourself a list of full names you want to check out, and note the age of each "victim" as of 9/11/2001. This will help you to rule out other persons in the SSDI who are likely to have the same name. Enter the criteria in the SSDI search engine, note your results, and let us know what you find.

I could be wrong, its just that i recall in years past they have arrested people for continueing to cash the SS checks of dead relatives, for years after they died. On the other hand, maybe in order to prevent that they DO recieve some kind of notice now.

Until 1962, a death had to be reported to the Social Security Administration by a surviving family member, and of course this left the door wide open to fraud. Since then, official reporting of deaths is automatic. The SSDI computerized database was not initiated until 1962, so the vast majority of people listed in it (98%) died during or after that year, although some records do go back as far as 1937. Everyone considered to have legitimately died on 9/11 should be found in the index.

Thinking were there death certificates issued for the Victims? I seem to recall they were concerned about some committing fraud on the compensation fund, i.e. claiming a relative had died, who hadn't. I'm just trying to 'nail this down'. Any other explanation for why some people wouldn't be in the SS death registry? How does the registry deal with deaths in which there are no remains, for instance?

Yes, they had to be very careful about possible phony victim claims submitted after 9/11, but this only relates to the WTC complex. After 9 years, they would certainly have had enough time to sort out any phony claims submitted by con artists, though. The persons who were at the Pentagon were all known, because they have to sign in and out at a security checkpoint, so those victims should all show up in the SSDI, unless the actual victim list was purposely overstated. Obviously, anyone reported as being on the passenger list of any of the 4 reported plane crashes would automatically have been pronounced dead upon impact (the very first "confirmed" deaths), and no remains would be necessary to prove that these people were dead.

Rick

[rickoff]

Hey Rick,
can you elaborate on the looming War, recent events that have taken places.

John Bedini has mentioned frequently that he/we are running out of time and that we will need self generated electricity.

I'm not quite sure what you would like to know. Can you be more specific as to what you are looking for? For example, are you looking for what the possible coming scenario may look like, the likelihood of that scenario actually occurring, what you can do to prepare for the worst possible scenario, or are you looking for something else?

Rick

[Moe R]

I'm not quite sure what you would like to know. Can you be more specific as to what you are looking for? For example, are you looking for what the possible coming scenario may look like, the likelihood of that scenario actually occurring, what you can do to prepare for the worst possible scenario, or are you looking for something else?

Rick

In a word "yes", I would love to read your thoughts on this.