The American Ruling Class

[bugler]

At last Obama has produced his birth certificate. In this case there is no doubt that it is a genuine one



Obama might have to really prove he was born in Hawaii as states are changing laws for that. That is not really enough to be a candidate as the requirements are to be a natural born citizen (meaning being born in the US territory and being an American Citizen at birth) but he was apparently born in Kenya so he won't be able to prove anything unless he fakes a birth certificate: President Barack Obama to produce birth certificate for 2012 election | Mail Online

[dutchdivco]

Worst possible 'spokesman'?

Or perhaps enunciator? Donald trump is actually making a big deal of this, and pretty much forcing the mainstream media to at least hear the arguments.Not real crazy about 'The Hair', er,.. 'The Donald', but got to say, first time I've heard it talked about in mainstream media without total dirision.WTF?
So, is this all part of the grand Conspiracy, because Trump is percieved as being such a bag'o'wind, that he brings it up, it and he goes nowhere, and it is further discounted, or is he for reals and lends credibility to it? Just have to wait and see, I guess."May you live in interesting times!" Jim

[aljhoa]

In a 2008 article published by the Michigan Law Review Lawrence Solum, Professor of Law at the University of Illinois, stated that "[t]here is general agreement on the core of [the] meaning [of the Presidential Eligibility Clause]. Anyone born on American soil whose parents are citizens of the United States is a 'natural born citizen'".[20] In April 2010 Solum republished the same article as an online draft, in which he changed his opinion on the meaning of natural born citizen to include persons born in the United States of one American citizen parent. In a footnote he explained that "[b]ased on my reading of the historical sources, there is no credible case that a person born on American soil with one American parent was clearly not a 'natural born citizen.'" He further extended natural born citizenship to all cases of jus soli as the "conventional view".

According to an April 2000 report by the Congressional Research Service, most constitutional scholars interpret Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution as including citizens born outside the United States to parents who are U.S. citizens under the "natural born" requirement. This same CRS report also asserts that citizens born in the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are legally defined as "natural born" citizens and are, therefore, also eligible to be elected President.

Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a U.S. citizen mother ( see ‘60 US immigration requirements for parents under 19 ) and a British subject father from what was then the Kenya Colony of the United Kingdom (which became the independent country of Kenya in 1963).

Natural Born Citizen clause of the U.S. Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al

[rickoff]

On 'monetary assets', I'm thinking there is a guy with food or something of value, that he's willing to barter.I come to him wanting what he's got, and I have a 1 Lb can of tobacco, and a box of 9mm. ammunition. His other customer has a 1/10 oz. bar of gold, and a 2 carat diamond.In the scenario i envision, its more likely that I will end up with the food, rather than the other customer, is all I'm saying. But again, each needs to decide.

Yes, as I pointed out in another post long ago, the most valuable assets of all will be food and other "necessity" items. Food will be #1, because food will be scarce for everyone who does not stockpile provisions ahead of time. Just think what a mere can of beans would mean to a family of four who have not eaten for several days, and you begin to understand why food will be the most valuable asset, and the #1 choice for bartering. My suggestion of converting as much money assets as possible to gold and/or silver is not for their use as barter, but rather to protect your money assets (savings accounts, IRA's etc.) from the ravages of an inevitable dollar crash. For example, it is quite likely that gold and silver will both be valued at nearly double their current valuations by the end of 2011. It is not that these precious metals will be worth so much more than they are now, but rather that the dollar will be worth so much less. For those who have worked hard all their lives to save up for retirement, gold and silver offer two very realistic opportunities to preserve that wealth for future times.

As the lessons of Catrina blog points out, you need both a "Bug out" and a "Bug in" or hunker down, plan. Certinly bugging out is questionable unless you have a place to go, and a reasonable expectation that conditions will be better there, than staying where you are.

Yes, that is very true. Again, as I pointed out long ago, your best option is to obtain a remote retreat if you don't already have one, to have everything you will need already safely stored there, and to recognize early enough when the time is right to go there. You certainly don't want to wait until bands of marauders are breaking down doors and pillaging your neighborhood. If that situation is already upon you, or you just don't have a remote retreat to go to, then of course your best option is to hunker down, stay put, and be prepared to fend off attacking marauders by whatever means is necessary. Still, that's the least appealing option if you consider your options beforehand.

in New Orleans there were people who were 'ordered' to evacuate, and refused to, and were armed.The authorities tried to 'talk' them out, but stopped short of going up against an armed granny.

Actually, Jim, there were many instances in New Orleans where police and military confiscated weapons kept in the homes of citizens, and here's a video that tells the story of one such citizen, Patty Konie, a "granny" type who was well provisioned, on dry land, armed, and didn't want to leave her home. Authorities forced their way into her home, backed her up against a wall, knocked her to the floor, punched her in the face, took away a small revolver that she had shown them, and dragged her out of the house. Other examples of wrongful confiscation and deprivation of liberty are also shown in the video. Point is, second amendment rights went right into the trash in the wake of Katrina, and will suffer the same fate in any other chaotic emergency situation that arises, no matter where you live. Don't count on authorities to protect you and maintain your rights, as they may likely be the first ones you will have to worry about.

[rickoff]

Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii

No acceptable conclusive evidence to support that statement has ever been provided by Obama, so what is your basis for making that statement? Is it simply your opinion, or something you read in Wikipedia, or at FactCheck.org?

[aljhoa]

No acceptable conclusive evidence to support that statement has ever been provided by Obama, so what is your basis for making that statement? Is it simply your opinion, or something you read in Wikipedia, or at FactCheck.org?

BO is not US citizen, see 1960 US immigration requirements for parents under 19 years of age.
Interesting interview:
Donald Trump Has People In Hawaii Hunting For Obama's Birth Certificate
Al

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

No substantive disageement. Perhaps like any other investment plan, 'end times' investment plan should include diversification.Gold and diamonds have their benefits, no doubt.So does food. And, a few 'luxury items' that people can no longer get, (like tobacco) will also have value.
Dr. Shiffler made a great point about sewage systems, and how they might backup into your abode, if your not prepared to plug all openings.Make your house pretty much unlivable, or at least unpleasent, unsanitary, etc.
In a similar vane, in Bagdad they had a BIG problem with Garbage.So, what are you going to do with it, once the garbage man is no longer collecting it, and you can't just load it in your truck and make a run to the landfill?
Do you use 'real' plates, etc. and expend limited water resouce to wash them, or use paper plates, etc, and have even more garbage? I don't know the answer, but its a challenge. Within a couple of weeks, they had residential areas in Bagdad, where they had mountains of garbage, blocking streets.Unsanitary, flies, rats, etc. Its definetly a challenge., Could burn it, of coarse, but might not want to be attracting attention with a fire. Maybe an incinerator?
Anyway, I certainly don't have a clear crystal ball, to know EXACTLY whats going to happen, or how its going to 'go down', and i don't really believe anyone else does, either.On the other hand, it doesn't take psychic powers to see that the systems of 'civilization' are breaking down.That 'the end times' are upon us.Having a plan, gives you options.Not having a plan forestalls your options.In the end, no plan survives (intact) first contact with the enemy.Again tho, it does give you options.The number of things that we depend on; necessities, is large.And all of them come to us down long tenuos supply chains.Food, potable water, waste disposal, shelter, energy to heat/cool shelter, transportation, medical care, 'public safety', financial services, and the list goes on. And, so many of these supply chains are interdependent.A disruption in one effects the others.Very easy to see the whole thing coming apart.Too easy.The first priority of government will be to protect government.Everything else becomes secondary, until such time as they are able to do that.Safety and security of citisenry (and yeah, their version of 'safety and security' might be very different than yours or mine) establishing 'order' etc. all becomes secondary.Again, exactly how it will all fall apart or precisely when is difficult to say with certainty. That it will all fall apart SEEMS TO ME to be a certainty. Oh, and by the by, even if they confiscate my guns and ammo, I'll still have my flare gun, and it can be pretty devastating, at least at close quarters, which is one of the points i was trying to make, earlier.Jim

[Moe R]

I think it's important to start with the basics for survival. I would call it the survival triangle. Food, water, and security in no particular order.Security would be guns and ammo but also like minded people to band together with. (You will have to sleep sometime.) Without that you will be overrun eventually by organized gangs who want what you have. If the sht hits the fan real hard, I mean real FUBAR where u need to fight hard for your right to live, it would be wise to build alliances NOW. Many of us can't afford a retreat to escape to so the hunker down plan will be in order. Build alliances NOW not later. A definate plan will enhance your chances of surviving the SHTF situation. Remember, people will trample eachother to death in order to get 10% off on a holiday sale item, imagine 30 people who haven't eaten for a week or 2. Not to pretty. Anything else you descide to prepare for is a luxury. Many great points have already been voiced here. There are many excellent places to get info now, that won't be around later when the plug gets pulled on the inet. You can still google prepping and there are some good prep info on utube, some bad ones too. Good luck to mother earth and her children.

[dutchdivco]

Full accord, moe

Some additional points; In this age of the I-net, don't forget about books, and the library. Specifically, old 'how to' books; can find LOTS of great info, can get cheap, and can put away for when you'll need them.Canning, smoking/preserving foods, how to make your own whatever, all sorts of good stuff.
Gonna have to have something to do, 'after', and reading was a primary way people used to occupy their time.
Learn dog training; notice I didn't say "get a dog", in much the way Dr. Stiffler didn't say "Get a gun".Go to library, and get 5-10 books on dog training, couple of videos as well.Not saying you need an attack dog, thats your choice, but if your going to go that way, do it RIGHT, and understand the potential threat to your finances of a dogbite lawsuit.
A WELL TRAINED dog can be your most valuable asset; warning you of potential threats well before you are aware of them.Training, as any pro dog trainer will tell you, is about 'training' the human, not the dog.
On garbage, sewage, and energy production; I'm surprised i don't see any threads in this forum on "Methane Digestion". I had almost forgot about it, myself.Basics are you put any organic matter with sufficient water, in an airtight container.Microbes eat it up, in much the way of composting, but because its anerobic, different microbes. These microbes 'exhale'`methane gas.And the other product is an excellent liquid fertiliser.Surprised not to see anything on it in this forum.Anywho, keep your heads, everyone. its gonna be interesting!Jim

[aljhoa]

Great Depression Era simple dishes and stories:
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Egg Drop Soup
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Poorman's Feast
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Depression Breakfast

Al

[Moe R]

Dude, dude as informative as this is and how tastie these resipes appear, I'd rather you configure your pallet on the fact that you may have to ingest something that falls off the maggot wagon.
Turn on the electric stove and cook up all these delicious yummies won't be on the menu. I hate to say it but you may be on the the menu in dire times. It won't happen suddenly, the end times I mean. It will start out with people rioting against the government,(already happening), because everything they had is gone and common scense simply dissapears. At this point you will have to keep your head on right and keep those with you in tune to the objective, Survival.
In the Outlaw Jose Wales, Clint said " you've got to get mean", an underststment I'm sure. My hope is that this never happens. What I see comming is pretty much sucky!Our leaders, if you want to call them that, do so many things totally wrong.It has to be planned. No one could f-up so much without doing it purposly.My hopes are with you all.

[aljhoa]

Great Depression Era simple dishes and stories:
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Egg Drop Soup
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Poorman's Feast
YouTube - Great Depression Cooking - Depression Breakfast

Al

50 Interesting Facts About . . .
The Great Depression
14.Scholars estimate that nearly 50% of children during the Great Depression did not have adequate food, shelter, or medical care. Many suffered rickets.
17.The “Three Little Pigs“—released May 27, 1933, and produced by Walt Disney—was seen as symbolic of the Great Depression, with the wolf representing the Depression and the three little pigs representing average citizens who eventually succeeded by working together.
32.By the 1930s, thousands of schools were operating on reduced hours or were closed down entirely. Some three million children had left school, and at least 200,000 took to riding the rails.
50 Interesting Facts about the Great Depression

Al

[rickoff]

BO is not US citizen, see 1960 US immigration requirements for parents under 19 years of age.
Interesting interview:
Donald Trump Has People In Hawaii Hunting For Obama's Birth Certificate
Al

I guess I'm a bit confused, Al. In your post #1429 you appeared to be an advocate for Obama being constitutionally eligible to serve as POTUS, and also stated that he was born in Hawaii. Now you say that Barry is not a US citizen, and that statement is in contradiction to what you previously stated. Fact is, we really don't know for certain whether or not Barry was actually born in Hawaii. If he was, he would certainly have qualified as a US citizen at that time. What we do know, however, is that he definitely did not qualify as a "natural born citizen." The Obama bots would like to believe that qualifying as a citizen at birth, and "natural born citizen" are one and the same, but they are distinctly different.

Natural Born Citizen: Under natural law, and accepted worldwide without question, one is a "natural born citizen" if born in a country to parents who are both citizens of that country. Obama does not qualify under this mandate of Presidential eligibility stated in the US Constitution, since even if born in Hawaii (which is as yet unproven) his father was a Kenyan and British subject.

Citizen at birth: While not qualifying as a "natural born citizen," a person can become a citizen at the time of their birth through man-made acts or laws of various nations. Such laws are what allow for dual citizenship, for example. Under such laws, Obama would never have been a US citizen if born in Kenya, since his mother was too young at the time to confer citizenship status on him upon entering the United States. If born in Hawaii, as he claims but has not proven, he would have been born a US citizen and a British citizen, holding dual citizenship and dual allegiance. Upon being adopted as "Barry Soetoro" by stepfather Lolo Soetoro, and moving to Indonesia, Barry would have lost his US citizenship since Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship. Upon returning to the US, there is no record of Barry's name being legally changed back to Barack Obama, and no record of any immigration papers filed on his behalf to reclaim US citizenship, which would have granted him "naturalized citizen" status if it had been done. "Naturalized" status can only grant citizenship status. It can not grant "natural born citizen" status, and is not the same.

[dutchdivco]

Moe

You said; "What I see comming is pretty much sucky!Our leaders, if you want to call them that, do so many things totally wrong.It has to be planned. No one could f-up so much without doing it purposly."
I know its a minority opinion, but I think Fukishima is a good analogy for our Gov't.; It wasn't planned, (the meltdown or whatever you want to call it) and I don't think whats happening now, and is going to happen, is either.I'm saying "Yes, I think someone could f-up so much, without doing it purposly!"
But, just my opinion.
Food, water and security is a good start, but if survival is the goal, need to at least look at additional issues.The triangle won't do much for your survival, if you and yours get sick, or have a 'true' medical emergency, for instance.

Also depends on what you are foreseeing, or events you are planning contingency plans for; if it is for a period of instability, followed by a gradual re-establishment of some version of the existing structures, thats one thing.
Food, water and protection may be enough in that scenario. If you are thinking a permanent end to the centralised 'civilised' life we have now, thats quite different.More will be required, (such as an alternative to medical 'care', as an example).

I like to think of 'off-the-grid' as a metaphor.The most commonly suggested path to 'off-the-grid' is to build a small system, capable of acting as a 'back-up' should the power grid go down for awhile.Then, build on the system, and the knowledge gained, to make a system robust enough to be your primary system, with the grid as a 'back-up'.

The 'Grid' is a supply line, and there are other supply lines we also depend on, for the necessities of life.And, we can take a similar approach.

Easiest example is 'public safety'; the things we call 911 for.The 911 system is a great system, but its not perfect; we've seen where Fire Dept. didn't respond to a call, cause homeowner hadn't payed his bill.Thing is, fire, ambulance and police won't leave an ongoing call, to respond to one that comes after.So, every once in awhile, people call, and responce is delayed, cause all available units are on another call.So, rather than doing as most people do, and NOT planning and haveing a back-up, its prudent to have a back-up.Guns, ammo and proper training, and a well trained dog gives you a 'back-up' in the event of a home invasion, for example.
Fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, and even a fire sprinkler system that you install in your home are all prudent measures to take. Doesn't mean you DON'T call 911 in the event of a fire, just means you don't rely solely on the fire dept.
Previous material I posted on medical emergency training gives you a 'back-up' to relying exclusively on paramedics, should you or yours have a medical emergency. And, as neccesary, 'back-up system' can then be built upon, to become your MAIN system, if neccesary.

Same applies to all the systems we currently rely on. Systems which are subject to disruptions, and could go down permanently if stressed enough by natural disasters, social upheaval, etc.

Hence discussions about sewage, garbage, etc. And yes, being 'mean' will become necessary, in order to survive.So will making alliances, banding together for common good.Food, potable water and security are certainly essentials, and a good place to start.Just saying this can be an ongoing process, and you can go beyond just the triangle. Jim

[rickoff]

Budget deal

I was really hoping that a budget "deal" would not happen, and that government would shut down. Instead, House Speaker Boehner caved in and made a deal with Obama and Senate majority leader Harry Reed.

The deal calls for $38.5 billion in spending cuts, which is considerably more than what Obama and Reed wanted, but far less than the $100 billion that Boehner originally promised to fight for. This sorry deal only amounts to about a 1% reduction in the budget, and is not going to do what is really needed. Even the Republican proposed $100 billion in cuts would not have been a cure. Heck, even $500 billion in cuts would not have been enough to balance the budget, let alone decrease the national debt.

What's even worse than the deal is the fact that we don't hear many complaints about it. As far as I know, only two Representatives (Michelle Bachmann and Allen West) have stepped up so far to slam this lousy deal, and say that they will vote NO on acceptance of it. After the deal was announced last night, Bachmann said, “The deal that was reached tonight is a disappointment for me and for millions of Americans who expected $100 billion in cuts, who wanted to make sure their tax dollars stopped flowing to the nation’s largest abortion provider [Planned Parenthood], and who wanted us to defund Obamacare."

What's really crazy about this dirty deal is that Obama, Democrats, and establishment Republicans are all claiming that it is some kind of "victory." A victory for whom, we should ask? Certainly not for taxpayers, or future taxpayers.

If Republicans will cave in this easily, then there isn't much hope that they will vote against raising the debt limit. And if the debt limit is raised, then our fate is surely sealed if it is not already.

Rick