The American Ruling Class

[rickoff]

@rickoff Okay, so [if] it is at last found that he [Barry Soetoro Obama] is not a valid president and maybe an illegal, what do you feel this will accomplish? What would be done and by who?

First of all, Barry is the one who should have been required to prove his Constitutional eligibility to serve as POTUS. The responsibility should not have fallen on the people of the United States to prove his ineligibility. When people wake up and realize that neither of the major 2008 Presidential candidates were qualified to be placed on the ballot, everyone who voted for either of those candidates should rightly be angry as all hell. Since the ballot choices were fraudulent, and neither Obama nor McCain's votes can be counted as viable, it would seem logical that there are only two remedial resolutions available:

1. Throw out all the votes that went to Obama and McCain, and declare that the next runner-up is by default the actual winner in the election. That would be Ralph Nader. While Ralph did not receive any elecoral college votes in the 2008 election, the electoral college votes received by Obama and McCain would have to be redistributed to all of the candidates who were Constitutionally eligible. Obama would leave office in disgrace, Joe Biden would go with him, and Nader would be sworn in to office without delay to serve until the 2012 election. This would be the simplest solution, with the least disruption, and would on the face of it be fair according to the vote tallies. What wouldn't be fair is that the runner-ups in the Democrat and Republican primaries (Clinton and Romney) should have been on the 2008 ballot, and either of these people would probably have received way more votes than Nader if they had been included.

2. It could be ruled that solution #1 might be unfair since it is unknown how the people who voted for Obama and McCain would have voted had those candidates not been on the ballot. People might well have opted to cast their vote for Bob Barr, the Libertarian Party candidate, or Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party candidate, or Cynthia McKinney, the Green Party candidate. So to be fair, a new election could be called for. To actually be fair, though, only the remaining candidates listed in the 2008 election should be listed in the new ballot, along with the runner-ups in the Republican and Democrat primaries. The question under this solution, though, is how long it would take before a new election decides the result, and who would take the helm while the decision is awaited. Normally that would fall to the Vice President, but in this case where the election results were invalid it would be prudent, and I think demanded, that Biden could not stay. Next in line of succession, as Jim rightly pointed out, is House Speaker Boehner, followed by President Pro Tempore of the Senate Daniel Inouye, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and Secretary of Treasury Tim Geithner, and 13 more cabinet members. Boehner has proven to be a lousy Speaker of the House, so it is hard to imagine him acting as President, but it couldn't be worse than what we have now and would only be for a short term.

Rick

[DrStiffler]

Hi Dr Stffler
Although I dont trust the courts or congress to do the right thing, I am still an American and believe in our Constitution. And we as Americans have to believe that our Constitution will protect us, so I would rather give the congress and the courts the opertunity to correct itself before more drastic measures are used.
Unfortunately the career politicians don't have the stomach to do what is right, if they did, social security would be fully funded and there would be no national debt. So when the actual proof surfices that Obama is the fraud we all know he is and when Congress and the Courts fail to act, that will be the time for the military and or the militias to act.
It is the sworn duty of the military and the malitias to up hold and protect the Constitution.
Bizzy


P.S. I just realized how ironic that statement is coming from a guy who uses a Swiss flag as an icon.

@Bizzy

Well I am an American also and do indeed believe in the Constitution we once had and were governed by, yet there are only those in our government that will even give lip service to the truth, 'that it has been circumvented' and no longer applies. How do they back this up? Well its all about 'interpenetration'. They run by their interpretation and that drastically differs from a TRUE Constitutionalist.

Here is my view and I will eat my words if I am wrong. Mr. O will get back in office, one way or another. Our Second Amendment Right will be stripped and the 3%-5% that are not RECEIVERS will make an effort to correct the wrong and the RECEIVERS will turn against them so the end game will fail.

It's line up folks and take your medicine, want it or not, we have been conditioned and prepared from the late 1700's for this final take over.

[Bizzy]

@Bizzy

Here is my view and I will eat my words if I am wrong. Mr. O will get back in office, one way or another. Our Second Amendment Right will be stripped and the 3%-5% that are not RECEIVERS will make an effort to correct the wrong and the RECEIVERS will turn against them so the end game will fail.

It's line up folks and take your medicine, want it or not, we have been conditioned and prepared from the late 1700's for this final take over.

Dr Stiffler,
Unfortunately I agree with your view. I am afraid that he will be re-elected and in his last term the Constitution including the amendments will be gutted in the name of "security" or whatever the buzz word of the day may be.
It is then that I will hand over my guns... when they pry my cold dead fingers from the trigger.
There is one glimmer of hope. About 1998 there was a study in military which asked soldiers "would you enforce a measure to gather weapons and eliminate the 2nd Amendment if marshall law was declared?" I dont recall the exact numbers but approxametly 85% of the soldeirs said they would NOT support such a measure.
Another question in that survey asked "would you fire upon US Citizens to enforce martial law?" Again the exact number fails me but the same persentage said no.
Finally they asked "would you fight against a US malitia if martial law was declared?" This was more disturbing, The number who would not fight a US matlia under martial law was only 50%
Of course this was taken before 9-11 and much could have changed in the mind of our trooops since then, but it gives some hope when faced with the elimination of the Constituion.
Bizzy

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

I don't think there is any legal or constitutional basis for re-hashing the results of the last election, or scheduling a new election.If, and its a big IF, Obama were to be found 'unfit' for office, the 2 most logical, legal and constitutional ways to resolve are as I stated; either Biden takes over, or, because he was 'on the ticket' with Obama, and is tainted by association, he steps down, as well. In which case Boener as Speaker takes over. There is no Constitutional basis for then holding a new election. He simply serves out his term (actually, the remainder of 'Obama's' term) as President.
That is how the line of succession works; we didn't have an election when Johnson took over after Kennedy, (mores the pity), or even more applicable, when Nixon resigned and Ford took over.
Given the quality of those in Congress, could do a lot worse, and quite frankly, I don't see a lot better, REALISTICALLY. I know some might point to others they would prefer, like Ron Paul, but Ron is not the Speaker.
Anyway, I started by saying Big IF.Anyway, thats my take on what would happen, IF.Jim

[Aaron]

coincidence?

Not too long ago, Japan, France, China and Russia met secretly, the U.S.
was not invited of course, to discuss getting out of the U.S. Dollar as the
reserve currency. This would be one of the biggest threats to the
establishment.

Is it a coincidence that Japan's earthquake/tsunami/nuclear disaster happened
about the same time we go into Libya for a "humanitarian" project?
France gets about 17% of their oil from Libya, China gets about 7% from
Libya. If we completely control Libya's oil and if China has to go elsewhere,
would it put Russia and China against each other for resources?

There is of course a chance to have China or France come up in any
other oil producing country, but it is interesting.

Basically, between the disaster in Japan the Libya WAR, all four
countries, Japan, France, China and Russia are getting stirred up
economically - IF, France and China's oil from Libya are at risk.

It wouldn't surprise me if there is some connection there and I don't
rule out man made earthquakes as the cause of the Japanese disaster
caused by our govt in order to preserve the US Dollar as
the current reserve currency.

[rickoff]

It wouldn't surprise me if there is some connection there and I don't rule out man made earthquakes as the cause of the Japanese disaster caused by our govt in order to preserve the US Dollar as the current reserve currency.

I wouldn't rule out anything either, but would tend to think that if the earthquake and resultant tsunami was indeed planned then the more logical reasoning behind it is massive worldwide population reduction due to high and extended atmospheric radiation contamination. As you can see, the situation is only getting worse and there is no end in sight. It's no secret that they would like to see an 80 to 90 percent population reduction, and see it as a necessity to preserve scarce resources. The high government officials and NWO folks will be safely hiding out in their well stocked bunkers until it is safe to come out again. As far as the dollar goes, every nation and individual who can is dumping it, and that was always a goal of the NWO plan along the road to initiating a one world government and one world currency. The Fed already owns over 50% of existing treasury debt notes, and with countries that previously purchased treasuries now wanting nothing to do with them, the FED is currently buying up close to 80% of new securities. It won't be long before they own 75% or more of the total US debt obligations. The fact that Congress has allowed this, and is still allowing this to occur, speaks volumes about their willingness to destroy the dollar and sell out the nation in return for their own security under a NWO system.

[rickoff]

I don't think there is any legal or constitutional basis for re-hashing the results of the last election, or scheduling a new election.If, and its a big IF, Obama were to be found 'unfit' for office, the 2 most logical, legal and constitutional ways to resolve are as I stated; either Biden takes over, or, because he was 'on the ticket' with Obama, and is tainted by association, he steps down, as well. In which case Boener as Speaker takes over. There is no Constitutional basis for then holding a new election. He simply serves out his term (actually, the remainder of 'Obama's' term) as President.

That is how the line of succession works; we didn't have an election when Johnson took over after Kennedy, (mores the pity), or even more applicable, when Nixon resigned and Ford took over.

Yes, but those examples are for Presidents who were Constitutionally eligible to serve, and who were duly elected. If Obama and McCain are recognized to have been ineligible to have been placed on the ballot in the first place then the election results are obviously invalid. Since Obama was in fact ineligible, everything done as a result of his acting as Presidential candidate, and President, would be null and void - his appointment of Biden as running mate, cabinet appointments, tsar appointments, staff appointments, Supreme Court appointments, all laws enacted or vetoed by his signature - everything null and void as if it had never happened. Therefore, no one in his administration would even be qualified to take the helm in succession. It would have to go to Boehner temporarily. Holding a new election would be a historical first, but due to the facts involved it would be essential in order to restore the rights of the individual candidates who were cheated out of their rightful place on the 2008 ballot, and the rights of voters who were cheated by allowing the fraudulent candidates to be placed on the ballot. Having a new election is the only solution that could possibly remedy the injustice that was done.

[dutchdivco]

Beg to disagree

Same argument could have been made about Nixon; without his 'dirty tricks', never would have been re-elected, therefore should be a 'do-over'. Or, "if American people had known what 'plumbers' and Nixon were doing, never would have re-elected him, have to have do-over". But, although American politics can be very childish, there are no 'do-overs'.
We are supposed to be a nation of laws, and pre-eminent among them is the Constitution.Framers could have said if a President is found to be unfit for office, well, obviously people wouldn't have elected him if they had known what they know now, therefore schedule a 'do-over' election; they didn't.
All the Constitution provides for is the line of succesion.My crystal ball is very fuzzy and out of focus, and none of us can 'see the future' with absolute clarity, but I'm pretty confident that this is the way the 'We' would have to proceed, 'IF'. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
One thing I can't help thinking, after seeing soundbite of Trump, on National news; Whoever wins Republican nomination, this time around, they are going to HAVE to say what Trump said; "If there is 'nothing there', why doesn't Obama simply release his birth certificate? That would put an end to the speculation." And, of coarse Obama and his people have NO ANSWER for that.
I can't see any way for him to go thru another election cycle without this coming up.But, as I said, my 'crystal ball' is pretty fuzzy,....Jim

[aljhoa]

I wonder if George Soros is really behind wikileaks:
Bretton Woods 2.0: Soros New World Order Conference

In any case, interesting to see if the July 14th movement
makes the mainstream news:
Prepare For Revolution: The Empire State Rebellion Begins on June 14th | The Public Record

"So on this Flag Day, as we once again confront tyranny, let’s all stand up for ourselves in a decentralized manner and launch our own revolt. We’ve been talking with several organizations about turning the “Empire State Rebellion” into a reality by organizing a peaceful mass demonstration throughout New York’s Financial District – from Wall Street to the NY Federal Reserve, to the corporate offices of the six big banks and the ratings agencies. On June 14th, we will launch a massive display of non-violent force with this list of demands: End the “campaign finance and lobbying racket,” “break up the banks,” “enforce RICO laws” against the “organized criminal class,” and order “Ben Bernanke to step down.”

June 14th will also be a day when people who haven’t already moved their money out of the big banks finally withdraw their funds. The silver movement will have a “Buy Silver Day.” There will be many different actions from many different people."

If the UN financial branches have their way, we will have a one world economic order, which is synonymous with one world government. The fact that they manipulate financial tragedies to so consistently work out in their favor shows that they are only interested in one thing: power over all aspects of world finance. If they are permitted to succeed, it will be economic slavery.

As it stands right now, the Federal Reserve loans every dollar to our Government with interest. Ultimately, the only logical result is default. Because we are having our money printed for us with interest by the Federal Reserve, we are paying for every dollar that has ever been in circulation, burned or not.

Pay close attention in the coming week. Whatever the new economic order reveals, we should all be as alert and as thoughtful of the scope of its proposals as we can. Notice that there is little room to breathe in the legal language used thus far. I am sure we can count on more of the same.
Campaign For Liberty — The conclusions coming from Bretton Woods II

Government monopoly and control over money has been an economic and social disaster. Wealth has been squandered and misinvested; the savings of millions have been destroyed through inflation; and the social fabric of societies has been weakened at various times during periods of monetary debauchery.

Money must be separated from the State. The Federal Reserve System must be abolished; all legal tender laws prohibiting individuals from using and contracting in whatever money they desire must be eliminated. The market — which means all of us in our roles as consumers and producers — should be left free to decide which commodities shall be selected as the most advantageous mediums of exchange. Also, the market should be left free to determine the economically most useful forms of banking and financial intermediation.
Free Market Money - Instead of Political Manipulation

Al

[rickoff]

Same argument could have been made about Nixon; without his 'dirty tricks', never would have been re-elected, therefore should be a 'do-over'. Or, "if American people had known what 'plumbers' and Nixon were doing, never would have re-elected him, have to have do-over".

I understand your position, however this isn't a question of dirty tricks, which both the major political parties and candidates have always used to their advantage whenever possible. This is about eligibility. Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon was Constitutionally eligible to be placed on the ballot, whereas Obama and McCain were not. Therefore, placing their names on the ballots in both the primary and Presidential elections was unconstitutional. If that fact is recognized, the election results are null and void, as the Constitution is the supreme law of the US. With the results thrown out, no one in the Obama administration could qualify to act as President in succession, and therefore Boehner would take the helm until the next election. If it were early on in the game (like April 2009, for instance) it is quite likely that a new election would be demanded and scheduled. As things currently go, being much farther along and unlikely that Obama could be unthroned any time soon, it is far more likely that Boehner would simply serve until the 2012 election.

In my honest opinion, I don't see this as ever getting to the point where Obama is thrown out before 2012. Congress realizes that if Obama's Presidency is declared unconstitutional then it opens a veritable Pandora's Box of dilemmas. I think that is why Clarence Thomas made reference to the Supreme Court avoiding the eligibility question.

Realistically, I think the best we can hope for is that all of the candidates opposing Obama in his 2012 reelection bid will make a huge issue of his eligibility, and that the 13 states currently working on legislation to ensure that candidates are eligible, before adding their names to ballots, will follow through and enact such legislation before November 2012. Actually, if just one state disallows Obama's inclusion on the ballot for the reason that Obama fails to offer valid proof of eligibility, other states will have to either drop his name also or answer to eligibility challenges made by other candidates - before the election can move forward.

Rick

[aljhoa]

In my honest opinion, I don't see this as ever getting to the point where Obama is thrown out before 2012. Congress realizes that if Obama's Presidency is declared unconstitutional then it opens a veritable Pandora's Box of dilemmas. I think that is why Clarence Thomas made reference to the Supreme Court avoiding the eligibility question.

Realistically, I think the best we can hope for is that all of the candidates opposing Obama in his 2012 reelection bid will make a huge issue of his eligibility, and that the 13 states currently working on legislation to ensure that candidates are eligible, before adding their names to ballots, will follow through and enact such legislation before November 2012. Actually, if just one state disallows Obama's inclusion on the ballot for the reason that Obama fails to offer valid proof of eligibility, other states will have to either drop his name also or answer to eligibility challenges made by other candidates - before the election can move forward.

Rick

Natural born or foreigner, where is the beef?
YouTube - Pitbull - Blood is Thicker Than water
Al

[Aaron]

eligibility organization

Someone should start an organization to track the eligibility of every
state representative and post that in an online chart. Although natural
born isn't required for many positions - Governor, mayors, etc... in case
they ever do try to run for president, it can ensure anyone that runs is
eligible. Should be pretty simple and there are people who are passionate
enough to put something like this together.

[cody]

Also wondering whats going to happen to IRA's and the companies that manage them.Have one where I can put $ in physical gold; supposedly they actually buy gold and 'hold onto it' for you.Or, should I just take the $ out, pay the penalty, and invest in gold I can hold onto, my own self. If I could be confident of getting the timing right, I could take the $ out, invest in gold, and then pay the penalty in hyperinflated (worthless) dollars! Hmmmm,..Jim

I would have much more piece of mind personally holding physical when/if things fall apart. If it dosnt break your bank, I would say take possession of your gold/silver, and get a gun.


On hyperinflation:

I think its obvious that our money is loosing value as we see prices going up on everything. But we are not seeing the same scenario as Germany or Zimbabwe had. As their prices went up, so did their wages. Im not getting paid more money. Are any of you? No one is giving me wheelbarrows full of cash to spend. So unless something fundamentally changes very soon you can see that our situation is a bit different. What exactly will the outcome be? I guess only time will tell but its not looking good for the dollar.

[Bizzy]

In extreme times, lead and gun powder are more valuable than paper gold or siver. Those should be the main precious commodities that should be stock piled
Bizzy

[rickoff]

In extreme times, lead and gun powder are more valuable than paper gold or siver. Those should be the main precious commodities that should be stock piled
Bizzy

Does that mean you would convert your retirement savings to bullets? I guess it all depends on how much (or how little) savings you have socked away. For those of us already retired, and with sizable retirement assets, it wouldn't be a very practical solution. After all, what would you do with say $100,000 worth of bullets? And where could you even amass that much ammo without that purchase or purchases being "red flagged?"

Certainly you should do whatever it takes to assure that you and your family are going to be secure against predatory attacks by those who failed to provide for their own needs, and if some of those assurances include bullets then you want to realistically have enough on hand, and maybe some extra that you could use for barter if you don't need them, but converting your entire retirement savings to bullets seems like, pardon the expression, "overkill," would you not agree?

Rick