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  • Whatever happened to religious freedom?

    I have consistently attempted to remain off religious topics in this thread so as to keep to the main topic of discussion, which centers around the American Ruling Class. I must say, however, that during my own lifetime the Ruling Class has concentrated much of their efforts towards the objective of minimizing and eradicating freedom of religion, especially the religion of Christianity. Up until the time that I started high school, we had daily bible readings and prayer time in public school. The town where I lived also had a public Christmas tree and nativity display, where the town folk gathered to sing Christian songs and offer prayer. But all of that abruptly changed because the ACLU said this violated the separation of church and state, and the Ruling Class justice system agreed. In today's world we can see things have progressed a long ways towards outright persecution of persons who profess religious beliefs, and of course any such persecution is a violation of our Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion.

    We hear of examples of Christians being beheaded in Muslim countries simply for refusing to embrace the Muslim religion, and we can't imagine such a thing happening here in the USA, but some of the things that are going on here should be cause for grave concern as well. Here's an example of one such recent occurrence. Deandre Poole, a professor at Florida Atlantic University (FAU), told the students in his class to write the name "Jesus" on a sheet of paper, and then to drop the paper on the floor and stomp on it. Ryan Rotela, a junior from Coral Springs, Fla., said while some of his classmates did comply with Poole's assignment, he refused, and when he took his complaint to school officials they responded by suspending him from the class! How totally absurd is that? Our educational system has gone through a complete reversal - from teaching the Ten Commandments to teaching intolerance and hatred.

    Incidentally, besides being a professor at FAU, Poole also happens to be vice-chairman of the Palm Beach County Democrat Party, and this may help explain his objective of stomping out religion. You may remember that during the Democrat National Convention there was a proposal to restore God to mention in the Democrat platform after that reference had been dropped. The voice vote which followed was very strongly against that proposal, and though two further voice votes were taken on the issue, and the chairman stated that the ayes had it, the delegates and other attendees made it unmistakably clear by their loud response and booing that they wanted any reference to God taken out of their party. The chairman, realizing that the vote results would have repercussions among many persons of religious inclination who would otherwise vote Democrat in the election, intentionally miscalled the voice vote results, and to subdue further protest to his call told attendees that Barry wanted God to remain on the Democrat platform.

    Regardless of our own personal beliefs regarding religion, if we remain silent when we see others persecuted for standing up for what they believe in when their faith is tested and scorned by non believers, we are essentially allowing our Constitution to be trampled upon. If one constitutional right is allowed to be disregarded then we give tacit approval to the trampling of our other constitutional rights.

    "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

    Comment


    • So let’s see a professor has his student’s write Jesus on a piece of paper throw it on the floor, stomp on, and then a student who complains gets suspended.

      What if the “good” professor had his student’s write Mohammad on the paper instead? Do you think the response might have been a little different?

      Is there any doubt that our education system is being purposely used in a way to lower moral standards?

      Comment


      • OWR

        The Duty to Resist
        Atila Sinke Guimarãess
        Fr. Francisco de Vitoria, O.P., poses these questions: “A Pope must be resisted who publicly destroys the Church. What should be done when the Pope, because of his bad customs, destroys the Church? What should be done if the Pope wanted without reason to abrogate Positive Law?”

        His answer is: “He would certainly sin; he should neither be permitted to act in such fashion nor should he be obeyed in what was evil; but he should be resisted with a courteous reprehension. Consequently ... if he wanted to destroy the Church or the like, he should not be permitted to act in that fashion, but one would be obliged to resist him.

        The Duty to Resist by Atila Sinke Guimarãess


        Al

        Comment


        • Yes

          Al, and I have no doubt Rick could come up with all sorts of quotes, from the founders, also supporting the notion that resistance to a leader is necesary!

          Rick, I understand and respect your hesitance to 'bring religion into' the discussion, I also have been tempted, recently

          For instance, I am not a Catholic, nor (particularly) a fan, but it has occurred to me recently that those in D.C. could learn from the Catholics. First of all, if you've got a MAJOR decision to be made, (picking a POPE, or a budget), just lock everyone in, and don't let em out till they reach a decision! Secondly, not just B.O. but all the Politicians could benefit from the kind of humbleness, modesty, and eschewing the trappings of office of the new Pope. I really think its the rare individual who can be surrounded by 'aides' and sicophants, (sp), and all the 'trappings' of high office, and NOT get 'seduced', but it would be nice to see some modesty, humbleness, and less hubris!

          And, it IS hard not to notice the parralle with Communist regimes, (Soviet Union AND China), where the Gov.'t attempts to 'eliminate' religion, and Liberals who AS A GROUP, do seem to be ant-religion. President, Senators and others take 'oath of office', with hand on Bible, swearing "TO GOD!!!!" to uphold the Constitution; if they 'don't believe' in God, obviously the 'Oath has no meaning for them,...Duh!

          No religion means no one, state sponsored religion. Doesn't mean suppression of ALL religions, just because some people are atheists. They, athiests, are free to talk about their non-belief, and religious people are free to talk about their belief. If they want to come up with a symbol, to signify NOT 'believeing' in X-mas, they are 'free' toput it upin the 'public square', alongside a menorah and a manger. To say "Because I DON'T believe, the state can't 'allow' ANY religious symbols in the market, is absurd. But, just one more in a long line of absurdities.Jim

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
            President, Senators and others take 'oath of office,' with hand on Bible, swearing "TO GOD!!!!" to uphold the Constitution; if they 'don't believe' in God, obviously the Oath has no meaning for them,...Duh!
            Exactly, Jim. They have no problem with lying to us, or to God. Besides, who is their God anyways? Is it the God of secular humanism? Is it Satan?

            Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
            To say "Because I DON'T believe, the state can't 'allow' ANY religious symbols in the market, is absurd.
            Yes, it really is absurd, especially since all 50 of the states pay tribute to God in their state constitutions. Doing so, they recognize that there is a higher law than the law of men, and also recognize that our rights and liberties are God given and thus inalienable by man, as you can see here:

            Alabama 1901, Preamble: We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
            Alaska 1956, Preamble:
            We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land..
            Arizona 1911, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
            Arkansas 1874, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
            California 1879, Preamble:
            We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
            Colorado 1876, Preamble:
            We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...
            Connecticut 1818, Preamble.
            The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy...
            Delaware 1897, Preamble:
            Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences.
            Florida 1885, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
            Georgia 1777, Preamble:
            We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
            Hawaii 1959, Preamble:
            We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance .. Establish this Constitution.
            Idaho 1889, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.
            Illinois 1870, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
            Indiana 1851, Preamble:
            We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
            Iowa 1857, Preamble:
            We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
            Kansas 1859, Preamble:
            We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
            Kentucky 1891, Preamble:
            We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
            Louisiana 1921, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy...
            Maine 1820, Preamble:
            We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
            Maryland 1776, Preamble:
            We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
            Massachusetts 1780, Preamble:
            We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction..
            Michigan 1908, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
            Minnesota, 1857, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
            Mississippi 1890, Preamble:
            We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work...
            Missouri 1845, Preamble:
            We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
            Montana 1889, Preamble:
            We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for theblessings of liberty establish this Constitution .
            Nebraska 1875, Preamble:
            We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom Establish this Constitution.
            Nevada 1864, Preamble:
            We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
            New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V:
            Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
            New Jersey 1844, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
            New Mexico 1911, Preamble:
            We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
            New York 1846, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings..
            North Carolina 1868, Preamble: We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
            North Dakota 1889, Preamble:
            We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
            Ohio 1852, Preamble:
            We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common..
            Oklahoma 1907, Preamble:
            Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this Constitution...
            Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2:
            All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences.
            Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble:
            We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance....
            Rhode Island 1842, Preamble:
            We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...
            South Carolina , 1778, Preamble:
            We, the people of the State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
            South Dakota 1889, Preamble:
            We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties .
            Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III:
            That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
            Texas 1845, Preamble:
            We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
            Utah 1896, Preamble:
            Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
            Vermont 1777, Preamble:
            Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ....
            Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI:
            Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
            Washington 1889, Preamble:
            We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
            West Virginia 1872, Preamble:
            Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...
            Wisconsin 1848, Preamble
            We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility....
            Wyoming 1890, Preamble
            We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution..
            "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

            Comment


            • Values

              Virtually ALL religions establish certain 'values' and try to inculcate them. Organised religion can 'screw this up' somewhat, cause just as in any 'hierarchy', individuals can become more 'invested' in preserving their 'place' in the hierarchy, and the hierarchy as a whole, than in doing whats 'right', but,...
              Never the less, I think it can be objectively recognised that there HAS been an 'erosion' of values, over a # of generations. We can debate what has 'caused' this, but damn it, its true!
              When you and I were growing up, NEVER would have seen a bumper sticker, or tee shirt, with the word F*CK on it; now I see it all the time! When Rhett Butler said "Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn!", audiences gasped. Young children thought babies came from curtains blowing in the window, cause the camaera always 'panned' away; etc.
              And values play a CRUCIAL role in how a society functions; take away the values, and it WILL change the society, and NOT for the better.

              Values of being self-dependent, 'doing the right thing', personal responsibility etc. are going away, to be replaced by WHAT? Do whatever you can get away with, and if your caught, go into 'rehab', and blame it on 'brain chemical imbalances'; as in 'Not MY fault'. And if no ones 'responsible', than anyone can do anything. And thats what we see, happening. Liberals can decry and denigrate 'values voters' all they want, but we see what we see.Jim

              Comment


              • A recent post in this thread brought attention to the fact that it is now possible to manufacture gun parts using 3D printers. Cory Wilson, and 7 other individuals formed a group known as Defense Distributors and set up a web site in order to freely offer information and downloads regarding their experimentation in this technology. Some really interesting and ingenious stuff there, and a 24 minute video is also available in which Cory tells his story, including his setbacks and successes. Cory recently obtained a firearms manufacturing license, which would allow him to legally manufacture and sell gun parts, though he has not pursued that option. Cory's stated aim is to make this information as freely and widely available as possible on the Internet, thus ensuring that 2nd Amendment rights can not be erased by those who would trample on the Constitution. In his own words, "To defend the civil liberty of popular access to arms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and affirmed by the United States Supreme Court, through facilitating global access to, and the collaborative production of, information and knowledge related to the 3D printing of arms; and to publish and distribute, at no cost to the public, such information and knowledge in promotion of the public interest."
                Last edited by rickoff; 03-29-2013, 03:40 PM.
                "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

                Comment


                • Heard about this

                  Some weapons can be converted from semi-auto, to fully auto, with just one or 2 parts being swapped; so while the guns, (as semi-auto) aren't restricted, owning these parts is. And I have read how this ability to 3d 'print' and therfore make such parts, will greatly frustrate efforts at 'control'.
                  I HAVE seen a small 3-d printer work, and it IS amazing. Only made 'things' in plastic, but it WAS phenominal.
                  Supposedly, one day we won't 'purchase' anything, just download the program, feed it into our 'synthesiser', and,..."Bobs your Uncle", we'll have a Bycycle, or gun, or hairbrush, 'whatever we want'.
                  Coarse, thats assuming 'civilisation' continues to function, for another 10-20 years, and I have serious doubts about that!Jim

                  Comment


                  • Nowhere to Hide

                    XM307

                    Dillon M134

                    Mercury Round

                    Al

                    Comment


                    • I'm sure you have all heard talk of "The Gang Of Eight" in Washington, D.C. They are a group of Democrats and Republicans who are proposing their solution to immigration reform, which in reality is nothing more than a massive amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants now in the United States. They will soon be submitting the bill that they have been working on, and you can bet that this will happen very close to April 10th, the day that tens of thousands of illegal aliens and amnesty supporters will be invading the Capitol in chartered buses to participate in a massive rally, and to demand amnesty. That's right - DEMAND and AMNESTY are the key words here. With all these illegals in one place at the same time, it would seem to be an excellent opportunity to round them up and deport them, perhaps utilizing the very buses that they arrive in. I doubt very much that we will see that happen, though. Instead, we will likely see more of the same that we saw in earlier such rallies - angry illegals shaking their fists above their heads, pushing, shoving, and shouting obscenities at anyone protesting their presence, and waving Mexican flags while stomping on American flags.

                      We already allow over 1 million LEGAL immigrants to enter the United States each year and seek employment at a time when roughly 20 million US citizens are without jobs. Why should we cave in to the demands of illegals and reward them with a legal status, work permits, driver licenses, food stamps, subsidized housing, free healthcare, and a pathway to citizenship and voting rights? It's the ultimate in absurdity. It's time to send a loud and clear message to Congress, saying "NO AMNESTY TO ILLEGALS!"
                      Last edited by rickoff; 03-31-2013, 02:21 PM.
                      "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

                      Comment


                      • Wow, Rick;

                        You were so 'foaming at the mouth p*ssed, that you said "NO AMESTY", when I know you MEANT "NO AMNESTY".
                        The only thing Romoney said, that I agree with, (and that he got 'hung' for saying) was "Self-Deport".
                        And, whats p*ssing me off the most about 'what we're hearing; there were TWO big mistakes, with the 1986 law, and only ONE of them was a failure to 'secure the border', and THAT was a 'secondary' one, to my mind.

                        The most important thing is to insure that an 'illegal' CAN'T get a job, here. JOBS is the big magnet! But Repubs, who get a lot of $ from 'Chamber of Commerce' don't want to truly eliminate 'illegals' getting jobs. So, they WILL 'allow' those already in the country to stay, in some shape or form, while SAYING they've made provisions for 'insuring' the border will be secure, so future illegals can't get in.
                        B*LLSH*IT! If there are no jobs, (for illegals) we don't have to spend ANY tax $ to transport them 'home'; they will go on there own. And, yes, we can spend $ to 'secure' the border, to address drug 'smuggling', terrorists, etc. But, if the Border patrol isn't being 'distracted' with dealing with waves of illegals, they can concentrate on 'keeping bad guys out'.

                        I'll BET you that the 'comprehensive' law they come up with will pay 'lip service' to addressing employment, but 5 years down the road, employers will be hiring 'illegals' with virtual impugnity.

                        The thing is, as Az. showed, we don't HAVE to depend on the Fed. Government; each state issues a 'tax license' to every business operating in their state; no license, you can't do business. "Caught' hiring illegals, and you lose your 'license'. Problem solved. The only drawback of the Az. law, is the 'state' has to prove the employer 'knowingly' hired an illegal.;-(
                        Sherriff Joe HAS 'busted' several businesses for 'knowingly' hiring, and I believe gotten some prosecutions, but it requires a LOT of 'investigation', to 'make the case'. If every employer were required to run every employee through E-verify, and keep the documents 'on file', to show on request, it COULD be done. But, no one really WANTS to eliminate illegals being able to work. And thats the real problem, IMHO. Jim

                        Comment


                        • As the result of a fraudulent foreclosure case in Georgia it would seem that none of the states officials who are required to be sworn into office have been given the correct oath to swear to. Thus it would appear that none of these state officials have the power to officially represent the state.
                          This problem also appears to be common to other states as well. Is something going on here that we should know about?


                          Hello everyone,

                          Day before yesterday I sent out a letter I had written to Senator Chambliss. It has since gone viral as I intended it to. As important as the issues I addressed in that letter are, the most important issue raised in the letter was at the end in regard to the recent discovery here in Georgia that we have been fully taken over by the Communist Party.

                          Yesterday one of our wonderful gentlemen here spent the day researching at a county probate court and discovered that the take over (by bastardizing a simple document) began in the late 70′s… continued somewhat randomly during the 80′s and was completed by the end of 1994. Since that time we have not had a single elected official, sitting judge, court clerk,county commissioner, Governor, AG, school board member or any other public employee required to take the Georgia Loyalty Oath legally performing their jobs. That means boys and girls that not one legislation, judicial decision, trial, policy or regulation from the local level to the Governors office since 1994 is legitimate and is in fact null and void and we currently have no sitting judges holding lawful authority.

                          Naturally we did not base our findings on one corrupt judges illegal actions and have since found that the same scenario has played out in all 50 states. Imagine what will happen when the good people of Alameda County California find out that not only do they not have to pay that outlandish $470,000.00 per year pension to the retiring commissioner but said commissioner was receiving an illegal salary during the duration of her job?

                          How about trial lawyers who find out their clients were jailed or fined by judges with no more authority than the garbage man? How about so many of our own Georgians who have lost their homes through fraudulent foreclosures presided over by nothing more than impostors in black robes? One particularly heinous criminal action comes to mind and my fellow Georgians know of which one I speak.
                          I typed up the facts and delivered it to the newspaper yesterday, will forward to many newspapers today and have sent it to everyinfluential internet site I can think of. The facts of what we have uncovered explains everything that is going on from local to federal and encompasses the entire country. It’s the reason Dennis Schuelke’s book Attorneys Above the Law,Attorneys Above The Law | by Dennis Schuelke, a true account is so very relevant.
                          In case any of you did not get to read the letter to the Senator I have attached it as it was published on a Canadian blog yesterday (the pic is not me but I rather like it anyway). I have attached the information given to the media and newspaper and I ask that itgo viral. I would urge the people in every state to go to their local probate court and obtain a copy of at least one judge, county commissioner or sheriff’s oath of office, loyalty oath and surety bond immediately. Then research your states statutes on the language that must by law be included in the oaths!
                          More evidence, very damning, was discovered by one of our researchers here in Georgia yesterday and I will send it out as soon as it is sent to me.

                          As much as I hate the thought even Turner’s recent conviction in Alabama is null and void, yep even the guilty are entitled to due process under our Constitution and without a legally sworn judge presiding the trial is nothing more than a dog and pony show with no more relevance than Howdy Doody!

                          A side note to all this is very important. Right now we have no LEGALLY SWORN ACTING SHERIFF’S and don’t think for a minute the Commie Feds don’t know that already. So what about all those Constitutional Sheriff’s out there who have oathed to protect the citizens of their respective counties from federal tyranny and intrusion? THEY HAVE NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO PROTECT YOU! So in every state wherever there is an honorable Constitutional Sheriff the people MUST MAKE SURE THEY ARE IMMEDIATELY GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE SWORN IN LEGALLY! They are our first line of defense and in many cases our only line of defense before the use of our own guns! So SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF (if he or she is not corrupt that is).
                          NO WONDER WE HAVE A COMMUNIST PARTY CAUCUS IN CONGRESS IN D.C. WHERE IS McCARTHY WHEN WE NEED HIM?

                          – Teri

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
                            you said "NO AMESTY", when I know you MEANT "NO AMNESTY".
                            Thanks for the correction, Jim. Just went back to fix that. Sometimes keys struck on this keyboard fail to show when typing in text characters.

                            Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
                            The most important thing is to insure that an 'illegal' CAN'T get a job, here. JOBS is the big magnet! If there are no jobs, (for illegals) we don't have to spend ANY tax $ to transport them 'home'; they will go on their own.
                            Yes, jobs are a big magnet that draw illegals here, but I don't believe that eliminating those job opportunities alone would be enough to cause self deportation. Along with that, and perhaps even more important, is eliminating birthright citizenship claimed under the 14th Amendment, which was never intended by those who wrote the 14th Amendment. With over 11,000 "anchor babies" born at just one hospital (Parkland Memorial, in Dallas, Texas) each year, one can see that this is a huge problem.

                            "Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were non-citizens - about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally." - The Dallas Morning News
                            Hospitals cannot legally turn away a pregnant woman, and probably wouldn't even if they could because this results in a cash cow for them. In 2004, for example, Parkland Memorial spent $70.7 million delivering nearly 16,000 babies, 70 percent of which were born to illegal alien mothers, but ended up with surplus funding of about $8 million. That's because of very generous federal subsidies (paid by us taxpayers, of course) and the fact that Dallas County taxpayers kicked in over $31 million additional. It's insane! Instead of US taxpayers footing the bill, why aren't we sending the bill to the Mexican government? And if they won't pay then close the border or allow US citizens to collect a bounty on each illegal which they deliver to a border crossing for deportation.

                            The other magnet which draws illegals is the wide range of benefits available to them, such as emergency room medical care, housing assistance, food programs, schooling, etc. Here again, these programs were intended to benefit needy US citizens, not illegal aliens, so the costs should be borne by the Mexican government, not US taxpayers. If Mexico won't pay for these benefits to be extended to their citizens, then it is time to say we won't pay any more either.

                            With all these incentives removed then I think we could safely say that illegals would not choose to come here, and those already here would probably choose to leave. But as long as at least one significant incentive remains, I doubt we will ever see that happen.
                            "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

                            Comment


                            • Even cartoon comics are using gun related content

                              "Seek wisdom by keeping an open mind to alternative realities, questioning authority, and searching for truth. Only then, when you see or hear something that has 'the ring of truth' to it, will it be as if a veil has been lifted, and suddenly you will begin to hear and see far more clearly than ever before." - Rickoff

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rickoff View Post
                                With all these incentives removed then I think we could safely say that illegals would not choose to come here, and those already here would probably choose to leave. But as long as at least one significant incentive remains, I doubt we will ever see that happen.
                                The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical economic and political union of Canada, Mexico, and the United States. The concept is loosely based on the European Union, occasionally including a common currency called the Amero or the North American Dollar. A union of the North American continent, sometimes extending to Central and South America, has been the subject of academic concepts for over a century, as well as becoming a common trope in science fiction. One reason for the difficulty in realizing the concept is that individual developments in each region have failed to prioritize a larger union.

                                More recently some form of union has been discussed or proposed in academic, business, and political circles, for decades.[1][2][3][4] However, government officials from all three nations say there are no plans to create a North American Union and that no agreement to do so has been signed.[5][6][7] The formation of a North American Union has been the subject of various conspiracy theories.

                                North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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