All the energy you need from compost?

[Vortex]

theremart, sounds like you have a good start at getting things to happen.

Note to all.
Do not put a flame to the methane until you know there is a
a high percentage of methane in what you intend to light.
5% methane in air is explosive.

A single (fresh) paddy of cow manure has the right bacteria to
get a methane digester started, so I've read is how they start
a waste food only digester in India.

Methane Digesters For Fuel Gas and Fertilizer
With Complete Instructions For Two Working Models
Methane Digesters for Fuel Gas and Fertilizer - ToC

[theremart]

Thanks Vortex

that is a good thing to know about methane.

I have decided just to test out how hot my 55 gal barrel gets filled with water in the center of the mulch pile. Today I am 1/2 way done putting the mulch around and setting up. Once I get an idea of temperature of water etc I will then be better setup to make my next move. The trouble with being in such a hot area is I could kill the bacteria very quickly with the methane so I may need to find the right balance to keep temperature at 95 deg.


I have come across a 50,000 gallon tank for $600.00 I am thinking hmm I could grow algae in the tank, then use the algae for the methane generation. The link that Vortex gave showed this setup, and seems very reasonable.


Anyhow video of my progress so far.

YouTube - Video 73 Jean Pain The Power of Compost, solar cooking,

[rileydad48]

theremart, sounds like you have a good start at getting things to happen.

Note to all.
Do not put a flame to the methane until you know there is a
a high percentage of methane in what you intend to light.
5% methane in air is explosive.

A single (fresh) paddy of cow manure has the right bacteria to
get a methane digester started, so I've read is how they start
a waste food only digester in India.

Methane Digesters For Fuel Gas and Fertilizer
With Complete Instructions For Two Working Models
Methane Digesters for Fuel Gas and Fertilizer - ToC

Thanks Vortex, allways good to remind people to be safe...

I really must take back my statement about "not incredible but just good logic" . Ever since this thread was added, I have searched the internet and read everything I could on Methane, Biogas, saftey and Production. There are books and books full of very good information out there. And the simplicity of it all is quite astounding.. Just about everyone could do some form of what's happening here, if only a pile of grass clippings in the back yard to get free heat... So Yes I do agree.. this is incredible !!!.. Even If my "cavitation pump" works as I planned it to. I will still be doing something later with methane probuction to run a gas engine with a induction motor generator . Thanks guys , I really do enjoy this Forum...

Thanks again ...Paul

Ps... I've learned that you can remove the trace quanities of Hydrogen Sulfied
and most of the water by running the biogas thru a filter of metal shavings from any machine shop... which are reasonable cause they only get scrap price for it..

[theremart]

Trick...

Thanks Vortex, allways good to remind people to be safe...

I really must take back my statement about "not incredible but just good logic" . Ever since this thread was added, I have searched the internet and read everything I could on Methane, Biogas, saftey and Production. There are books and books full of very good information out there. And the simplicity of it all is quite astounding.. Just about everyone could do some form of what's happening here, if only a pile of grass clippings in the back yard to get free heat... So Yes I do agree.. this is incredible !!!.. Even If my "cavitation pump" works as I planned it to. I will still be doing something later with methane probuction to run a gas engine with a induction motor generator . Thanks guys , I really do enjoy this Forum...

Thanks again ...Paul

Ps... I've learned that you can remove the trace quanities of Hydrogen Sulfied
and most of the water by running the biogas thru a filter of metal shavings from any machine shop... which are reasonable cause they only get scrap price for it..

Do that or steel wool ( which is really iron ) even better yet run it through lime water ( hand full of lime from ag store used to lime garden ) and it helps cut down the sulfur smell.

Full details and more are available from the 3 hour video at the start of the list, I believe it is worth the $30.00 for the video as it will save you hours and $ from doing it less efficient ways.

[theremart]

I found this link...

Hot Compost


Mentions to insulate the compost pile..

I tested my 55 gal barrel this morning it was 3 deg warmer than water that was setting outside 75 outside in a 5 gal bucket. I poured more water around the barrel so it would pick up more heat from the compost. Yet as I was pouring the water it hit me that I am now loosing the insulation value of the wood chips below the barrel but oh well live and learn.

If nothing else I will try to find a good method of insulation the 55 gallon barrel I think the worst now is the top I will try to get some foam that I can cover the top of the barrel with to hold the heat in. Right now I only have a tarp.

[theremart]

Even better link

DIY Water Heating with Compost

How to do Jean Pain's method from Mother Earth news.

Very sweet

[Vortex]

"come across a 50,000 gallon tank for $600.00 I am thinking hmm I could grow algae in the tank"
That water can be used as thermal mass storage to heat a green house, etc
and algae will not mind the water being a bit warm ...

Since methane production creates co2 from 25-50% also,
I've often wondered how one might use the co2 for plant growth without blowing things up ...

A weed whacker is easiest to convert to methane as well
as into other things like a compressor.

The methane is great for cooking, but quantity might prevent heating
the house with it. Heating the house could be done using a
biomass gasifier that is started using a methane burner,
but self-fuels and self-heats once the gasification begins.
This would provide on demand heating of greater quantity without
storage problems that methane has.
A gasifier can use any biomass for fuel if the biomass itself is not
the fuel used for heat initially, that's when limitation of fuel choices
and designs are effected.
A multiple cylinder biomass unit could be continuously reloaded ..
I don't know how you would know if one is spent, used up and ready to be removed and replaced.

I like my woodgas stove but it is touchy about the fuel I use.
I can't use just anything ... I'm going to fix that and come up
with a different design. No I'm not going to use a fan.

[theremart]

More progress water temp up to 98 degrees on 55 gallon

I got the pump working on the setup, Today I added more insulation will see what difference this makes.

YouTube - Video 74 Warmer water, circulating pump working with Jean Pain's method

[theremart]

Jean Pains method...

"come across a 50,000 gallon tank for $600.00 I am thinking hmm I could grow algae in the tank"
That water can be used as thermal mass storage to heat a green house, etc
and algae will not mind the water being a bit warm ...

Since methane production creates co2 from 25-50% also,
I've often wondered how one might use the co2 for plant growth without blowing things up ...

A weed whacker is easiest to convert to methane as well
as into other things like a compressor.

The methane is great for cooking, but quantity might prevent heating
the house with it. Heating the house could be done using a
biomass gasifier that is started using a methane burner,
but self-fuels and self-heats once the gasification begins.
This would provide on demand heating of greater quantity without
storage problems that methane has.
A gasifier can use any biomass for fuel if the biomass itself is not
the fuel used for heat initially, that's when limitation of fuel choices
and designs are effected.
A multiple cylinder biomass unit could be continuously reloaded ..
I don't know how you would know if one is spent, used up and ready to be removed and replaced.

I like my woodgas stove but it is touchy about the fuel I use.
I can't use just anything ... I'm going to fix that and come up
with a different design. No I'm not going to use a fan.

My thought is to take the hot water from the Jean Pain method and then circulate that inside the house. If you take 130 degree water then use your biogas heater to that water it should not take much to heat the house.

[theremart]

Found this book made by Jean Pain...

http://www.biomeiler.at/explorer/Dow...ndofGarden.pdf

has wonderful pictures and indepth instructions of how to do this. I did not know he also heated a green house with this method.

[Matthew Jones]

I was kinda wondering about something like this. I was thinking heating the floor with water.
But it dawned me, to wonder what spectrum of light a lantern (Coleman) would emit if methane gas was used to light the filament.
I haven't been able to find an answer but if the light was good you could make grow house of some kind. but then again you could use generator and lights. But a lantern would be real cheap.

Matt

[theremart]

heating with this method..

I was kinda wondering about something like this. I was thinking heating the floor with water.
But it dawned me, to wonder what spectrum of light a lantern (Coleman) would emit if methane gas was used to light the filament.
I haven't been able to find an answer but if the light was good you could make grow house of some kind. but then again you could use generator and lights. But a lantern would be real cheap.

Matt

Today I checked the temperature of my 55 gallon barrel and found it at 108 deg F. That is without using a pump but just letting the heat transfer to the water inside through the wall of the barrel. It seems to rise about 3 deg every 12 hours. I made some modifications of adding some old blankets I had to the top in layers for insulation. That seems to work great. I remembered when I lived up in Indiana that dressing up in layers seemed to have the best way of staying warm.


I have a can of enzymes I am tempted to add the the mix with the rest of the sugar I have in the house ( I don't eat processed sugar but they guy who used to live here left me about 5 lbs ) I am thinking I could mix together sugar and the enzymes and pour that on the mixture and see what happens.

Now I have a question...

If in a methane reactor all bacteria are killed at 108 degrees..... why is that the compost pile gets to over 150 degrees? Is there bacteria that lives at that temperature that keep the reaction going?


I am thinking that it may be cheaper just to have like 8 55 gallon barrrels in setups like this, Then just rotate to each one for your hot water needs...

The problem of heating a home with the water is it is sooo moist. You would have a big moister problem inside the home. I think that is why he used a hot water radiator inside the home to transfer the heat. But for a green house it would be perfect for the plants.

I love this project as I am seeing beneficial results quickly. Today I measured the hot water cumming out of my tap and it is at 115 degrees. I think soon I will be taking my first bath with compost heated water.

[theremart]

Update..

I measured the temperature of the the 55 gal tank full of water that started at 75 deg inside the compost pile.

Up to 114.7 degrees... It was down to 58 degrees the night before outside, so indeed this does work. One note, the temp rise is not do to circulating water but only the sides of the tank heating up with the compost reaction. If I hit 120 degrees I will take my first bath with water heated from compost.

I want to try to calculate how much it cost to heat a tank of water with electric at 10 cents a kilowatt.

[Matthew Jones]

Depends on the storage of a hot water heater. 80 gallon heater Electric usually runs anywhere from 400 - 500 dollars a year to run.

This is one

Some can go lower.

A solar hot water system costs on average 120 to 150 dollars a years because of the pumps. But the up front is way more expensive.

So if you can beat either one your golden....

I wonder how much heat could be generated from the average yard waste of a single family home? IE flower beds grooming, lawn clippings, even food waste, ect...
That might be worth building product for. "Just add clippings, and trash..."

Matt

[theremart]

Well..

It still was at 114 this morning. So I decided to run the circulating pump. It went down to 108 Deg after 3 hours. So I removed some of the mulch from around the pipes, it was about bone dry. We have not had rain here for some time with low humidity, so I am setting up some rain barrels to catch the next drops of rain.