All the energy you need from compost?

[Vortex]

You could pick up some mycorrhizal mix with beneficial bacteria at www fungi com
and though rain water is great .. given the correct environment salt water
even works just fine .. See greening the desert where they had mushrooms growing in the mulch (compost)
So i see not much harm in using tap water.

keep up the good work
randy

[theremart]

Found a new link - and poor results on my test run.

This guy has this down to a science..

Heat free (nearly) with a compost furnace « Energymd – Practical Alternative Energy


My results have been most disappointing as the pile has gone dry It did reach 114 before loosing it's ump as it was not properly watered. Now it went down to 98 degrees in the tank.

I am planning on testing an idea I have. I plan on rebuilding the pile, but this time with a childs swimming pool at the bottom to catch excess water that comes off as I soak the pile. I did not know about the need for air in the pile or other things. So.. I plan on tearing the pile down allowing the next rain to soak the compost and try again his time re circulating the water in the pile to keep the mulch wet. ( has been very dry here )

As well, I think I will put leaves around the pipes which will break down faster and help in getting the reaction going better.

But from what I saw from the start, I am ready to do this again. There is much potential here.

[theremart]

Hey

You could pick up some mycorrhizal mix with beneficial bacteria at www fungi com
and though rain water is great .. given the correct environment salt water
even works just fine .. See greening the desert where they had mushrooms growing in the mulch (compost)
So i see not much harm in using tap water.

keep up the good work
randy

Thanks for the encouragement...

[theremart]

Jean Pain next try

YouTube - Video 78 Try 3 with Jean Pain method and latching relays.wmv

Added a method to trap more water.

Today I have got over 3 55 gallon barrels full of water from rain water so wooo hoo I have moister.

Today I tested running the irrigation hoses with the sump pump and that is working like a champ!!! Next will be an air compressor to keep the air going to feed the reaction.

I am looking forward to see how this progresses.

[theremart]

Progress!

I have been recording the temperature rise of the 40 gallons of water since I have again drenched the compost pile with water and started the process of getting the bacteria to work again.

We had much rain and I now have 4 rain barrels full of water.

November

29th 81 deg F
30 81

December

1 83 ( added more insulation - used cardboard and put on more wood chips as insulation )
2 84
3 87
4 88
5 93
6 97


The last reading was this morning, which is surprising to me as it was 60 deg here in Florida outside. Them bacteria must of been dancing up a storm to make all that heat

[theremart]

Something that hit me today..

What about a sterling engine with the 150 degree water from the compost? Would that turn a wheel for energy?

[Vortex]

What about a sterling engine with the 150 degree water from the compost? Would that turn a wheel for energy?

Yep.. .. see 'Imagineer' touts geothermal energy invention
"generate electricity using water that's the temperature of a cup of coffee -- about 165 degrees Fahrenheit."

Fluidyne pump .. only moving parts are two check valves.

One option to think about is Compost Pile Vent Tubes
Google search pvc oxygen

I was thinking of reuse (removal of piping from old pile to new pile) and construction or the non-man-handling of the piping?

Those that have tried to work with this plastic piping will know it is a
major pain trying to get it into the desired configuration, unwinding
it and then rewinding it into like a spiral.
A frame to hold it in a spiral would prevent removal from a used up compost pile
requiring a lot of compost removal before the piping could be moved to another location.
A lot of the compost information I've read states going beyond 4 feet wide
does not allow the oxygen to reach the middle of the pile .. This is the
reason all that labor is involved to turn the compost.. and thus
bigger piles get longer but never much wider than 4 foot, an elongated shape .
100 feet roll can be made into 9 x 10 foot sections with 4 inch or so spacing
in a radiator like layout and braced at each end where it is coupled so
moving or pulling does not put stress upon the couplings . ..
8 sets of elbows are needed if 9 runs of piping are space at 4 inches apart.
A 100 feet of piping could make two sets of 5 foot long runs.
The shorter runs would make it easier to move around and
pull it out of the used up compost pile.
this would allow pulling the piping up out of the compost without removal
all the compost above it.. saving some work.
A 6 or 7 foot long by 4 foot wide by 3 foot high compost pile could probably
contain close to 150 feet of piping.
5 feet, 90 degree, 4 inches, 90 degree, 5 feet, etc.

Unsure how to keep the runs spaced/straight .. maybe rebar / stakes ...
Keeping a set as unframed or tied together allows for easier moving and removal.??
Unsure what would be best to brace the piping together near the
elbows to prevent stress being applied upon them.

These sets could be added or removed as the compost pile is used up...
If the pile was 10 foot long to start with, using two 5 foot long runs and
the compost pile reduces.. one set could be removed and
the remaining compost moved over the top of the remaining 5 foot long run.
Then the removed run could be used to start a new pile.??

just thinking.
randy

[theremart]

Re: just thinking...

Thanks for the input Vortex,

I believe I may be able to push over to 165 with solar heating. I have buried a 55 gallon barrel and panted part of it black the rest is insulated with the compost. So far this failed, but I have another plan... Will try dripping the water with a small solar pump into a black pipe that will be heated perhaps with a parabolic dish thus transfering the heat to the water directly just heating the barrel has not yeiled much of a rise in the temp so far.

The removal / reconstruction is not a problem for me now. It should only need to be done once a year. The new setup I have adopted is simplier it uses irrigation pipe about 20 inches from the bottom to input the needed water to keep the pile moist. as for the air, I plan to use an air compressor to feed it in. A guy in Minnesota is doing this with 8 inche of snow on the top it is 150 deg!!! he 3 times a day runs air thru pvc pipe to the bottom of the pile, I intend on using the irrigation pipe for the same purpose. But his method does not require turning the pile. If you keep the conditions set through the pile you don't have to turn it. Jean Pain no where mentions turning his pile. I belive because he spent so much time getting the much wet ( dunking in barrels ) and how big his pile was, and how thin the mulch was create he did not have to turn as the mulch acted as insulation.

But once a year dealing with tear down is not a problem for me. I have torn it down and re-built the pile in about 1/2 a day. The exercise does me good :-)

But I have found the better the insulation, the faster the pile heats up. I am just wondering how high it will go with my present setup. I have not piped in air yet, I want to see how long the heat will continue to rise with present setup, if it drops then I will add air.

I am slowly changing one thing at a time and noting the temp changes daily. I intend to take my timer on relay to automate the blowing in of air each day.


But I want to learn from this pile Learn what works and what does not, I am just thrilled it is comming back to life. !


Will have to check into the devices you listed if I hit 150 and maintain it.

Yep.. .. see 'Imagineer' touts geothermal energy invention
"generate electricity using water that's the temperature of a cup of coffee -- about 165 degrees Fahrenheit."

Fluidyne pump .. only moving parts are two check valves.

One option to think about is Compost Pile Vent Tubes
Google search pvc oxygen

I was thinking of reuse (removal of piping from old pile to new pile) and construction or the non-man-handling of the piping?

Those that have tried to work with this plastic piping will know it is a
major pain trying to get it into the desired configuration, unwinding
it and then rewinding it into like a spiral.
A frame to hold it in a spiral would prevent removal from a used up compost pile
requiring a lot of compost removal before the piping could be moved to another location.
A lot of the compost information I've read states going beyond 4 feet wide
does not allow the oxygen to reach the middle of the pile .. This is the
reason all that labor is involved to turn the compost.. and thus
bigger piles get longer but never much wider than 4 foot, an elongated shape .
100 feet roll can be made into 9 x 10 foot sections with 4 inch or so spacing
in a radiator like layout and braced at each end where it is coupled so
moving or pulling does not put stress upon the couplings . ..
8 sets of elbows are needed if 9 runs of piping are space at 4 inches apart.
A 100 feet of piping could make two sets of 5 foot long runs.
The shorter runs would make it easier to move around and
pull it out of the used up compost pile.
this would allow pulling the piping up out of the compost without removal
all the compost above it.. saving some work.
A 6 or 7 foot long by 4 foot wide by 3 foot high compost pile could probably
contain close to 150 feet of piping.
5 feet, 90 degree, 4 inches, 90 degree, 5 feet, etc.

Unsure how to keep the runs spaced/straight .. maybe rebar / stakes ...
Keeping a set as unframed or tied together allows for easier moving and removal.??
Unsure what would be best to brace the piping together near the
elbows to prevent stress being applied upon them.

These sets could be added or removed as the compost pile is used up...
If the pile was 10 foot long to start with, using two 5 foot long runs and
the compost pile reduces.. one set could be removed and
the remaining compost moved over the top of the remaining 5 foot long run.
Then the removed run could be used to start a new pile.??

just thinking.
randy

[theremart]

Next update

YouTube - Video 82 Jean Pain Power of Compost update.wmv

Getting back up to temp..

[theremart]

And another kool link

Jean Pain Method (Permaculture Forums: alternative energy)

His house is warmer using compost.

[Matthew Jones]

MY man.
I can't wait to get moved in to my house and get started. I got brush piles everywhere, just bought a mulcher.

Never would have dawned on me that rotting garden material would be exciting. LOL
I want to try some Auqaponics too. But you gotta license to culture fish in NC.

Cheers
Matt

[theremart]

I just looked at classified adds..

MY man.
I can't wait to get moved in to my house and get started. I got brush piles everywhere, just bought a mulcher.

Never would have dawned on me that rotting garden material would be exciting. LOL
I want to try some Auqaponics too. But you gotta license to culture fish in NC.

Cheers
Matt

They had two listings for FREE compost. I just need a means of getting it to my door. Looks like I will have to call around for hauling places to find someone who can load and dump it at my door.

Another find was I found a method in india to make methane that does not use manure.

YouTube - Compact digester for producing biogas from food waste


ARTI

I am thinking of using my blender to blend up old oranges and then see if I can start the process.

I was thinking of buying a composter but.... when I can get it delivered all ready composted, I am wondering is it worth the expense of a composter...

[Matthew Jones]

Ya thats pretty nifty. Doesn't look that complicated. Are you going to buy one, or try to build one?

I know in Germany the cities collect food waste as a recycled product. They have separate bags that are colored that they have to put it in.
If they are not separating they are fined.
I suspect they are doing the same thing on a large scale.

I'll have to find it but I was reading an article on ethanol production from local wood product using the bacteria found in the belly of a termite.
Termites work like cows. The bacteria digests the pulped wood product they make from eating the wood. The bi product is sugar. Then termite has separate stomach that digests the sugar and the dead bacteria.

It ain't hard to find termites, but it might be a trick to isolate the bacteria. Once isolated it shouldn't be to hard to culture and ferment. I have made plenty of potato mash in my younger days, it ain't hard to do.
Its an alternative to methane gas though and a little easier to store.

We'll see. Got to get finished and moved..

Matt

[theremart]

RE: Methane..

Ya thats pretty nifty. Doesn't look that complicated. Are you going to buy one, or try to build one?

I know in Germany the cities collect food waste as a recycled product. They have separate bags that are colored that they have to put it in.
If they are not separating they are fined.
I suspect they are doing the same thing on a large scale.

Matt

I have been looking at many youtube videos on methane production. I like the look of this method. It looks exactly like the one in India. So it seems the best way is large containers the fit inside one another. What I like about this method is you can adjust the amount of pressure by simply adding weights to the top container. I am thinking of getting some large inter tubes and then on the methane tank simply put on a snap on part from an air pump. Fill up the tire, then it is portable. or with a compressor be store in compressed tanks. I have heard reports of people who do this the tires work very well.

The theory of Pulsefuelnerd ( from youtube ) is to simply to not store the methane, but to turn it into heat. burn the fuel at x rate running a sterling engine running a generator. That sounds just awesome to me to have batteries charged with this. I was thinking gas generator, but need to get a larger production before I do that.


Something near this setup is what I am targeting

YouTube - Simple Methane Digester

very very simple. Trouble is I can't find barrels that fit together like this. I found a 55 gallon plastic barrel that is air tight which should do the job.. As I write this I am thinking perhaps I could use a 5 gallon bucket in my 55 gallon rain barrel to capture the gas, the same way you do a HHO litters per minute test.... or... get myself a trash can that will fit inside the 55 gallon barrel this is starting to come together.

oh BTW the temp of the water this morning at the top was 117 deg, and the bottom of the 40 gallon tank is 107. I am getting very very close to my first compost heated bath whoo hoo!

Mart

[theremart]

Another update...

YouTube - Video 83 Jean Pain Power of Compost Update 2.wmv

I have seen my temp get up to 120. Again the moister has gone low in the compost heap so I added 2 55 gallon barrels of rain water. I found it interesting the hottest parts of the heap have this white color to it. I do wonder if this is mold or the color of the specific bacteria.


0–15 °C (32–59 °F) - psychrophiles predominate, beginning the heating process as they multiply
15–40 °C (59–104 °F) - mesophiles take over, psychrophiles die off or are relegated to the borders
40–70 °C (104–158 °F) - thermophiles work at their peak, including consuming many other bacteria

( from webpedia on compost )


I found it interesting to find these bacteria can double every 30 seconds.