Your Basic Potential Difference Circuit

[Turion]

One of my posts totally disappeared. I answered all bro's questions. So here is the same info again.

No Turion did NOT "draw it that way." Bro Mike changed my original circuit. You guys auit. The circuit bro Mike shows MAY have a bad wire in it depending on the equipment used. If the second boost module is an ISOLATED boost module, as MINE WAS, the wiring is FINE. If the second boost module is NOT isolated, the wire connected to Negative Out on the second boost module needs to be removed. It isn't NEEDED for EITHER type of boost module to function correctly, so you might as well remove it. Connected the way it is, it's a problem.

As to why the first boost module works. It is running on a potential difference, as all DC circuits do. There is 12 volts on the + terminal of the boost module and -0- volts on the Negative terminal of the boost module when connected directly to the battery, so there is a "potential difference of 12 volts. The boost module doesn't CARE what you do with its output unless you hook something up to it in a way that will cause it harm. SO the fact that only ONE wire of the output is connected makes NO DIFFERENCE to the boost module (at least with MOST OF THEM. BUT, you need to STOP thinking of "Positive" and "Negative" if you are going to work with potential difference circuits. You have a HIGH side and a LOW side and the load runs off the difference between them. The second boost module has a high voltage connected to the Positive IN terminal and a lower voltage connected to the Negative In terminal. It "sees" a difference there, and that's what it runs on. It would not matter one bit if you connected 2012 volts to the positive in and 2000 volts to the negative in. The boost module would see a difference of ONLY 12 VOLTS, and that is what it would run on. It might make a difference to YOU if you grabbed the wrong wire, but the boost module would be perfectly happy. OK, that was an exaggerated example to make a point so DON'T do that!!!!

[bistander]

image_21111.jpg

And as I stated above, if you use an ISOLATED boost module as your second boost module, AS I WAS USING, that wire is fine. But it is not NEEDED for either boost module, so leave it out.
Just for YOU bi.

http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...ge260#post3897

Thanks. Post #3897 attached image does not load for me. Can you post it.

Regards,
bi

edit: I found it. It inserted at the beginning of post for some reason.

[Turion]

bi,
You just never, ever admit when you post incorrect information. Bro Mikey was talking about HIS circuit, not my original circuit and you stated that "Turion drew it that way." I didn't. Compare the important components in the two circuits.




Original

First Boost runs directly off battery in standard configuration

Second boost module runs directly off generator in standard configuration

Load is running between the positives.




Bro Mikey's version

First Boost runs directly off battery in standard configuration

Second boost module runs BETWEEN THE POSITIVES (so the wire connected to Negative Out is a problem

Load (2^nd mppt) runs between the positives.

Apples and Oranges YOUR mistake, not mine. In my original, the wire in question is FINE. In his version, it is not, unless you are using an isolated boost module. So in his circuit, and his circuit ONLY, that wire can be removed no matter WHICH kind of boost module is being used and the circuit will still function as HE designed it. But it is NOT a replication of MY circuit. In MY circuit, removing that wire would put both the 2nd boost module and the load in series running between the positives of the generator output and the battery +.
Depending on the generator output it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT work. Depends on the potential difference available. I haven't run it that way, so I have no idea.

[BroMikey]

Does anybody know what Dave means by removing the ground wire?? Not sure but I have 2 diagrams. Dave uses cell phones over quikcrete so he can't upload his own diagram and I am left drowning is bad copies

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...ryDiagram2.jpg

http://flyer.thenetteam.net/3battery...ryDiagram3.jpg

[bistander]

bi,
You just never, ever admit when you post incorrect information. Bro Mikey was talking about HIS circuit, not my original circuit and you stated that "Turion drew it that way." I didn't. Compare the important components in the two circuits.




Original

First Boost runs directly off battery in standard configuration

Second boost module runs directly off generator in standard configuration

Load is running between the positives.




Bro Mikey's version

First Boost runs directly off battery in standard configuration

Second boost module runs BETWEEN THE POSITIVES (so the wire connected to Negative Out is a problem

Load (2^nd mppt) runs between the positives.

Apples and Oranges YOUR mistake, not mine. In my original, the wire in question is FINE. In his version, it is not, unless you are using an isolated boost module. So in his circuit, and his circuit ONLY, that wire can be removed no matter WHICH kind of boost module is being used and the circuit will still function as HE designed it. But it is NOT a replication of MY circuit. In MY circuit, removing that wire would put both the 2nd boost module and the load in series running between the positives of the generator output and the battery +.
Depending on the generator output it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT work. Depends on the potential difference available. I haven't run it that way, so I have no idea.

image_21111.jpg Turion,

This is the diagram I was always talking about. You drew it that way, correct? It is what you originally posted.
Your buddy mixes up words so badly I may have misinterpreted his meaning but I thought he was blaming me for altering your original diagram. I did not. He blames me for about everything else.
BTW, did Matt ever build and test it like he said? Did you?

Regards,
bi

[Turion]

bro,
Neither of those diagrams are correct. Neither one will work. I don't know where you got those. Not from ME. The one bi JUST POSTED is correct.
And I never said a word about removing a "ground wire." I was very specific in how I described the wire. I said the NEGATIVE OUT of the SECOND BOOST MODULE.

You are the one who brought up a "Bad Wire" in the first place. There isn't one in my schematic posted above.

There is on YOUR schematic. IF the NEGATIVE IN and the NEGATIVE OUT of your second boost module are a "through" connection. (Meaning it is NOT an isolated boost module, and many are NOT, and also meaning connecting to the Negative In is exactly the SAME as connecting to the Negative Out. You have the Negative IN connected to the battery positive and the Negative Out connected to the battery negative. That is a direct SHORT through the boost module. Unless it is ISOLATED, and then that is not a problem at all.

[BroMikey]

image_21111.jpg Turion,

This is the diagram I was always talking about. You drew it that way, correct? It is what you originally posted.
Your buddy mixes up words so badly I may have misinterpreted his meaning but I thought he was blaming me for altering your original diagram. I did not. He blames me for about everything else.
BTW, did Matt ever build and test it like he said? Did you?

Regards,
bi

Bye I thought you ran this circuit, and you have bad wires?

[BroMikey]

Here is my circuit, not sure if this makes any sense, I have brain freeze again. BTW here is what mppt stands for so they can be like inverters but able to process a wider range of voltages great than 2v.

With regular inverters 2v below 12v and it shuts down so you might buy an mppt that can take in 10v all the way up to 48v.

Maximum power point tracking (MPPT) or sometimes just power point tracking (PPT)) is a technique used commonly with wind turbines and photovoltaic (PV) solar systems to maximize power extraction under all conditions.

But then your batteries might be toast by then, get a 12v battery down to 10v-11v and you probably are going to cook it. Fantasy land.

OneBatteryDiagram1.jpg

Yeah but you let me post this and said nothing. Bye thought it worked too. Correct the bad wire. You will have to wait till you get some time because cell phones are impossible. I thought you were going to direct? Guess not. So a few posts back you think this one is correct? I don't want to here about Bye's post being correct, I am asking about another diagram, if that isn't to much for you. It really is a hard problem so take your time and get back to us. So you like this one? I can not upload anything more the scripts are broken for me.

[bistander]

Bye I thought you ran this circuit, and you have bad wires?

I didn't have any bad wires. I have no idea what you're talking about.
bi

[BroMikey]

OneBatteryDiagramTest4.jpg

Isolated and non isolated booster designations are absent. You guys both said that this is the correct circuit readings. Yet neither posted this one, instead a dataless copy. Load components unknown. No one is exact when the goal is to do a circuit Dave is doing so we can compare circuit data, This has never taken place on either of the projects under complaint. The complaint is that no one follows directions building the circuit exact, so therefore can not be a fair comparison with the data first established.

No established data exists except what BYE has offered and he does not think it is of any value. If this circuit is Dave's circuit and BYE has been the only one to actually build it and write down the figures of he test at each station, what does this say? It says that we have nothing to compare it with as usual, just another baseless now founded setup with no witness from the source, which has always been the case. Dave is a nice guy but is afraid.

Where is Dave's copy. I have posted data till it is coming out of my ears on specific (multiple) setups, asked for a witness for years with no response. This is getting old. Until something actual exists, count me out boys. Mean while I will spend my time chasing unicorns on another circuit.

No more blank copies Dave, no more wooden nickels.

[Turion]

bro,

There never was a "blank copy". I put all the necessary information on the original post. Here is the link to the original circuit that I have now posted THREE TIMES in the last two days: http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...ge260#post3897. Yet you whine you haven't seen the circuit. Whose fault is THAT?

One battery system JPEG.jpg

And here is the circuit for those too lazy to go look it up. There was NO NEED to designate what kind of boost module I had since either ISOLATED OR NON ISOLATED will work in the circuit above. We had been talking about the boost modules we were using when this was posted, and all you needed to know was the voltage settings, which I showed. The load is a 12 volt load as it has ALWAYS been. Usually a light or an extra razor scooter motor. That's ALL YOU NEED to run it. It is NOT an over unity device. I never said it was. But the motor WILL run longer than when run conventionally. That's all it was designed to show.

Then bi comes along and runs it with DIFFERENT voltages, which he wrote in, and then YOU come along and add parts that were never in the original design. Now we have a circuit diagram covered with crap. Not my fault.

I ASSUMED YOU actually BUILT the design YOU put forth and it worked. I don't put designs for circuits here until I build and test them. Since I couldn't replicate it and test YOUR DESIGN without PARTS that were different from what was in MY circuit; parts I didn't and DON'T have, I made NO comment. You give me crap because I don't find the bad wire on YOUR circuit and "just let you post it without saying anything"???? I don't have the PARTS you have in your circuit. I have NO WAY of testing it to see if it even runs, but I am. supposed to point out to you that there is a bad wire? YOU CHANGED THE CIRCUIT. When you do THAT, the new circuit becomes YOUR problem, not mine. Once you started crying about the "bad wire" I looked at MY circuit and there wasn't one, so I looked at YOUR circuit, which IS FAR DIFFERENT than mine and there is a POSSIBLE bad wire if you are using the wrong kind of boost module. And I have NO IDEA what boost module you are using on YOUR circuit. Don't give me crap that I didn't designate what kind of boost module is needed in MY circuit because either isolated or non isolated will work. THEY WON'T in YOUR design and that is YOUR problem for changing the circuit.

I will continue to do my research and building on my own without bothering anyone here any further. You guys deserve each other.

[bistander]

Isolated and non isolated booster designations are absent. You guys both said that this is the correct circuit readings. Yet neither posted this one, instead a dataless copy. Load components unknown. No one is exact when the goal is to do a circuit Dave is doing so we can compare circuit data, This has never taken place on either of the projects under complaint. The complaint is that no one follows directions building the circuit exact, so therefore can not be a fair comparison with the data first established.

No established data exists except what BYE has offered and he does not think it is of any value. If this circuit is Dave's circuit and BYE has been the only one to actually build it and write down the figures of he test at each station, what does this say? It says that we have nothing to compare it with as usual, just another baseless now founded setup with no witness from the source, which has always been the case. Dave is a nice guy but is afraid.

Where is Dave's copy. I have posted data till it is coming out of my ears on specific (multiple) setups, asked for a witness for years with no response. This is getting old. Until something actual exists, count me out boys. Mean while I will spend my time chasing unicorns on another circuit.

No more blank copies Dave, no more wooden nickels.

Both of the boost converters were non isolated (common negative). And the load was a 50 Ohm resistor. I had also posted data on test 3. I hid nothing and left the experiment in tact for several weeks offering to make additional tests at anyone's request.

Unfortunately the record has been corrupted due someone making post deletions and a forum format change. I've got a pretty good memory and all the components are still in my shop, somewhere.

Not sure what you're attempting to do or prove with 4 converters, 2 bulbs (loads) and a single battery, but good luck.

bi

[bistander]

bro,

There never was a "blank copy". I put all the necessary information on the original post. Here is the link to the original circuit that I have now posted THREE TIMES in the last two days: http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...ge260#post3897. Yet you whine you haven't seen the circuit. Whose fault is THAT?

One battery system JPEG.jpg

And here is the circuit for those too lazy to go look it up. There was NO NEED to designate what kind of boost module I had since either ISOLATED OR NON ISOLATED will work in the circuit above. We had been talking about the boost modules we were using when this was posted, and all you needed to know was the voltage settings, which I showed. The load is a 12 volt load as it has ALWAYS been. Usually a light or an extra razor scooter motor. That's ALL YOU NEED to run it. It is NOT an over unity device. I never said it was. But the motor WILL run longer than when run conventionally. That's all it was designed to show.

Then bi comes along and runs it with DIFFERENT voltages, which he wrote in, and then YOU come along and add parts that were never in the original design. Now we have a circuit diagram covered with crap. Not my fault.

I ASSUMED YOU actually BUILT the design YOU put forth and it worked. I don't put designs for circuits here until I build and test them. Since I couldn't replicate it and test YOUR DESIGN without PARTS that were different from what was in MY circuit; parts I didn't and DON'T have, I made NO comment. You give me crap because I don't find the bad wire on YOUR circuit and "just let you post it without saying anything"???? I don't have the PARTS you have in your circuit. I have NO WAY of testing it to see if it even runs, but I am. supposed to point out to you that there is a bad wire? YOU CHANGED THE CIRCUIT. When you do THAT, the new circuit becomes YOUR problem, not mine. Once you started crying about the "bad wire" I looked at MY circuit and there wasn't one, so I looked at YOUR circuit, which IS FAR DIFFERENT than mine and there is a POSSIBLE bad wire if you are using the wrong kind of boost module. And I have NO IDEA what boost module you are using on YOUR circuit. Don't give me crap that I didn't designate what kind of boost module is needed in MY circuit because either isolated or non isolated will work. THEY WON'T in YOUR design and that is YOUR problem for changing the circuit.

I will continue to do my research and building on my own without bothering anyone here any further. You guys deserve each other.

Hi Turion,

Interesting. You just said:
"I don't put designs for circuits here until I build and test them." Yet you don't save any data or record.
And now you say:
"It is NOT an over unity device. I never said it was. But the motor WILL run longer than when run conventionally." That's more than what you were willing to tell me at time. So how much longer did it run for you?

Another thing I find interesting is that you don't show any rectifier on the generator output. IIRC, your generators all are AC, and quite a bit higher voltage than the boost converter tolerates. One of the reasons that I ran a 12V DC generator.

Also you say:
"Then bi comes along and runs it with DIFFERENT voltages, which he wrote in". I mentioned this at the time that I had to adjust the load value and converter gains to get stable operation. As long as I was up front with that information and disclosed all the data, it seems fair. Also I was ready and willing to try suggestions from you, short of using a different motor.

I guess Matt never did run the test like he said he would. Too bad you neglected to keep any data or results.

Regards,
bi

[BroMikey]

bro,

I will continue to do my research and building on my own without bothering anyone here any further. You guys deserve each other.

Where is your data? is all I asked. This is how you have always been with both the ReGenX (obsolete) and the 3 battery circuits using high efficiency boosters every which way. Putting yourself way up high looking down everyone must comply with your demand for proof that your circuit works with no liar liar contest See how you are? You have always pulled this, you and the other guy who you both deserve each other. I told you that the way you treat one person you treat everyone. Birds of a feather flock together, arm chair command central. LOL

I know you can't help it. Even with all your weaknesses. It is just so much fun I can't resist. No more free data Dave till you post something concrete no Quikcrete allowed. BTW I have been testing opposition magnets extensively today and they drag my rotor down. It is cheaper to run without on this rig because I use steel rotors not floppy plastic. I am changing the motor to 24vdc scooter right now but I have little hope for this rotor. In many cases the power draw is identical with and without opposition magnets but startup is a breeze when using them.

I lied I just gave you free data that is specific, BYE was right.Watch how you get now. Can you see yourself? Well Bye was right about the opposition magnets at speed for steel mainly because the steel in between magnets on the rotor pull in and push out at TDC so it makes sense to me that the best I can hope for is the same as without them.

Plz send data soon, I am not going to hold my breath after 6 years or better Easy big man I am only rattling your cage for those who feel the same way.Have a nice day. Hurts don't it?
The truth, you know what I mean? Don't be scared Dave, nobody'll fault ya if your numbers are a little off. Post something, this is not a request.

BTW this is all small potato's as many other technologies are emerging makes all of this haggling more of a dog and pony show than I realized. First stop is expel all of the fear of the MIB, it's gonna be alright.

[Turion]

bi,
You have no idea what generator I used nor what voltage it put out. Therefore you have no idea whether or not it put out more than the boost module could handle. Oh, and you have no idea what boost module I used either, so you have no idea what its minimum or maximum input was. Don't worry. I'm not even going to bother to try and share anything else on this forum. It isn't worth my time. I will work with the people who have listened, have things working, and contact me by email. All I was trying to do here was teach the principles by which you could become successful at designing and building circuits of your own. Sawt2.png