Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[tesluh]

Hello Bob, I also believe it is an open system, one of the reasons it has my attention, I know about the limitations of closed systems. The claims are bold and there is little evidence to support that they are true. Currently struggling with all the "stuff I don't know" to figure out how to build a working unit. If/when I can make one I would love to break down everything involved in building more. So many variables and unknowns right now though.

Right now some questions I am searching for answers to:
-Is "247/MHz=feet of wire for a coil", the primary coil 1/4 wavelength or the full wavelength (for the secondary)?

-how do I tell with a scope what frequency my nst oscillates at? Or do I need a frequency counter? I have heard of 37khz and 60hz nsts and I am not exactly sure which one mine is.

-how do I rig up lights so that I can tell if a coil is resonating? I saw this on one of dons builds with the vertical coils, and saw a schematic of one as well but none of it made sense as to what to buy and how to rig it up.

-right now I have the primary coil's capacitor in series and the spark gap in parallel. Is this right? I get action in the primary coil and sparks on the secondary coil when shorted with a screwdriver. my digital multimeter geeks out if I put it anywhere near the circuit when its running.

-Should the primary side be grounded?

-I am not using the center tap of the nst (it is potted in resin). should I be? I have spent a lot of time shopping for nst's and I now have 4 different ones (two are gfci). learned how to remove the gfci from a france or Transco nst which is what I will do if this one isn't up to the task.

Any help from those who know would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[Bob Smith]

Hi Paul
Sorry about that - got you guys mixed up. A rose by any other name... ?
I hear you. All the best.
Bob

[soundiceuk]

Hi Bob, it's Paul not Mike haha

I have known one of Don's friends for over 5 years now. Don left his final circuit with him before he passed. It is an open circuit using ground currents. Don always left a few things out of his schematics.

Despite this it is still just a highly efficient lighting circuit.

Don was on the right track but never managed to create a self sustaining circuit.

There are other inventors with much higher COP such as Jim Murray that deserve far more attention than this thread gets.

[Bob Smith]

I don't remember seeing anything from Stroker. Please show us his build.

Infact no one even Don Smith produced anything more than a very efficient lighting circuit.

Hi Mike
I respect your position; point well taken. I don't believe Stoker ever posted a photo, let alone a video, but he was quite up front about not doing so. My take was that he was sharing freely and it was up to people to decide. He gave a lot of credit to Patrick Kelly (bud did not feel PK had in fact constructed the DS setup), but claims that the fine tuning of coils and chained diodes, and positioning of certain components (spark gap) was something he had to find out for himself. If anything, I think these elements of his description are worth checking out.

My personal position is that this DS apparatus is essentially an open system that draws in ambient energy, which I believe Stoker also maintains, due to the resonant action of the coils and their interaction with ambient energy, particularly from ground.

If the DS systems are not open systems, then yes, nothing more than fancy lighting setups. I guess that's the question, for me anyway: whether they're closed or open systems. I lean toward the latter.
Bob

[soundiceuk]

I don't remember seeing anything from Stroker. Please show us his build.

Infact no one even Don Smith produced anything more than a very efficient lighting circuit.

[tesluh]

Hello Bob, thank you, every time I reread that chunk I pick up on something I was overlooking. Tomorrow going to try to wind the 4:1 ratio set of coils and get it mounted on my board. knowing it is exactly 4 to 1 in length and weight per each half of the secondary and both made out of the exact same pc of wire will give me confidence that spending time trying to tune this set of coils is worthwhile.

something to point out is that "using the natural resonant frequency" for this wire seems to be be practically impossible if my nst is in the 37khz range and I am supposed to maintain that frequency throughout the system, 247/MHz=length would make 247/.037 mhz =6675.6 feet!

247/41.1mhz is the 6 foot primary I am making.

If anyone wants to correct my math please do, I cant tell if that formula is for calculating the primary or secondary length, ie 247/10.29mhz is 24 foot secondary and 4:1 is 6 foot primary? either way I am making a 6/24/24ft set of coils and working with that.

How/where do I probe my nst to check its frequency without ruining my scope or frequency counter/function generator?

[Bob Smith]

I would highly recommend reading the posts by stoker_x1, beginning from this one, and moving forward:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post193360

Bob

[med.3012]

Hello, I have read that pdf. I wish it went further, seems to end short. also not clear as to how to make the coil they show, lacking some important details. I am not opposed to using bifilar coils however just trying to get one functioning using regular wire coils first. Would love to look at any schematics of resonance devices people want to post, especially if they feel that they got a great result with them.

Can anyone walk me through determining resonant freq and then how to get the coils resonating at that frequency? This is regarding devices similar to the infamous photo of don's board with the B&W coils and 4 blue capacitors. wish he gave us an explicit walkthrough from construction to tuning and installation.

Good Luck ...

[tesluh]

Hello, I have read that pdf. I wish it went further, seems to end short. also not clear as to how to make the coil they show, lacking some important details. I am not opposed to using bifilar coils however just trying to get one functioning using regular wire coils first. Would love to look at any schematics of resonance devices people want to post, especially if they feel that they got a great result with them.

Can anyone walk me through determining resonant freq and then how to get the coils resonating at that frequency? This is regarding devices similar to the infamous photo of don's board with the B&W coils and 4 blue capacitors. wish he gave us an explicit walkthrough from construction to tuning and installation.

[med.3012]

Hello, First post however I have read about 200 pages of this thread in researching Don Smith devices. I have one I am working on, have taken it to the point of bringing a bank of very large capacitors from 0 to 120 volts. Not saying its actually putting out large amounts of useable power but saying some of it seems to be working. I have a number of questions I was hoping those with more knowledge can help me on. Very determined to prove Don right by making one of these that does as it should.

I have made about 4 different sets of primary and secondary coils and still looking for a practical way to test if they are in resonance. I have a function generator that is also a freq counter, I also have a scope but am new to using both of them. I searched youtube and watched most of Mr clean videos. Still baffled by how to determine resonant freq and then how to get the coils resonating at that frequency.

going to wind up a set of coils today with an idea I got from this forum.
L1 6ft long
each l2 24ft long for total of 48 ft.
L1 made with (4) 6ft long pcs of the same wire used for l2, that way they will be exactly 4:1 in both weight and length. going to try with 8ga wire and see if it makes tuning them any easier. This gets around trying to find stranded wire that is exactly 1/4 the weight per foot of a solid wire (not easy!)


Has anyone come up with a useable secondary side schematic?

There are literally hundreds of schematics for this device and all of them seem to be incomplete and contradictory. To get the cap banks to charge I took elements from about 20 different wiring diagrams.

So I have battery, inverter, dimmer(variac), actown 9kv 30ma NSt, diodes, L1coil, capacitor, sparkgap on the primary side. lets say that l1 coil is in resonance and lets say my 2 pc center tapped L2 wound cw and ccw is also in resonance. what should the rest of it look like?

Any help greatly appreciated. If I learn anything of value I will be glad to share with those also researching this.

Hello !


just a quick reply, i have a new design called the serial ETBC, the following video show a small test when the input is 3W charging 100UF TO 300V in about 3 second and discharging this to 40W/220V light bulb, unfortunately i am not able to go further in this design because i am very busy with a lots of things ...

https://youtu.be/lo0dRiKWUOc


if you don't know what's the ETBC please read this :

www.free-energy-info.com/Mohamed.pdf


another video talk about the serial ETBC can be found here :

https://youtu.be/a0FNZZywgng



the ETBC just need a good reactive electric current to give a huge amount of useful power, i have another interesting design about L2 coil but it will be given when i see a serious replication of this design.


Regards

[tesluh]

Hello, First post however I have read about 200 pages of this thread in researching Don Smith devices. I have one I am working on, have taken it to the point of bringing a bank of very large capacitors from 0 to 120 volts. Not saying its actually putting out large amounts of useable power but saying some of it seems to be working. I have a number of questions I was hoping those with more knowledge can help me on. Very determined to prove Don right by making one of these that does as it should.

I have made about 4 different sets of primary and secondary coils and still looking for a practical way to test if they are in resonance. I have a function generator that is also a freq counter, I also have a scope but am new to using both of them. I searched youtube and watched most of Mr clean videos. Still baffled by how to determine resonant freq and then how to get the coils resonating at that frequency.

going to wind up a set of coils today with an idea I got from this forum.
L1 6ft long
each l2 24ft long for total of 48 ft.
L1 made with (4) 6ft long pcs of the same wire used for l2, that way they will be exactly 4:1 in both weight and length. going to try with 8ga wire and see if it makes tuning them any easier. This gets around trying to find stranded wire that is exactly 1/4 the weight per foot of a solid wire (not easy!)


Has anyone come up with a useable secondary side schematic?

There are literally hundreds of schematics for this device and all of them seem to be incomplete and contradictory. To get the cap banks to charge I took elements from about 20 different wiring diagrams.

So I have battery, inverter, dimmer(variac), actown 9kv 30ma NSt, diodes, L1coil, capacitor, sparkgap on the primary side. lets say that l1 coil is in resonance and lets say my 2 pc center tapped L2 wound cw and ccw is also in resonance. what should the rest of it look like?

Any help greatly appreciated. If I learn anything of value I will be glad to share with those also researching this.

[med.3012]

F.Y.I.

NEW (recent*) DISCOVERIES IN ELECTRODYNAMICS AND ELECTROMAGNETICS
(Including practical, easily performed, experimental proofs)
* It appears Tesla knew of, and exploited, these phenomena long ago!

1. New view (*) of ELECTRODYNAMIC (ElectroStatic) INDUCTION

"For the current level of knowledge of physics occurrence of electric currents is an axiom of the impossibility of ensuring the Coulomb electric field (the field produced by electric charges, an electrostatic field) steady electrical current in a conductor." ... "With all of experimental studies, formulated the basic position: "The electromotive force generated in the circuit, directly proportional to the rate of change of the flow of the electrostatic field through any surface, based on the contour at the current excitation is significant only relative movement between the conductor and the electric field of the Coulomb nature." ... "In our view, this new kind of induction current in the conductor, which has electrodynamic nature, in contrast to the electromagnetic induction, it is appropriate to classify as an induction electrodynamic." ... "Opening fundamentally changes the previously known ideas in the theory of electricity on the induction of currents. Based on experimental and theoretical research we can say that the induction current (in some cases - is a conduction current) can occur without the presence of a closed circuit, and without the presence of conventional power sources (battery cells, batteries, etc.). The experiments presented have been shown, for the occurrence of the induced current substantially only relative movement the electric field source and the conductor."

SELF-ELECTRIC : electrodynamic induction
(employed to "explain" the "Tesla Antenna" operational theory)

??????????????????? ???????? : ??? ???? ???????? : ?????? : ElectroMaster - ????????? ? ??????????
English translation page:
https://translate.google.com/transla...3Fstoryid%3D42

2. New view (*) of ELECTROMAGNETICS and Propagation

The [EM or EH] dynamics of an electromagnetic field of electric charges (electrons) of each component (translational and rotational) has completely different properties in space...

THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS
NOTE: This area of study was employed to assist in "backing into" the "air coil" operational theory.
http://www.unconv-association.org/si...ions/EH_HZ.pdf

Commercialization of the EH/Hz Antenna discovery:
EH Antenna website:
EH Antenna Systems

THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS by V. Korobejnikow and T. Hart, August 2004:
http://www.eh-antenna.com/EH_HZ.pdf

Additional paper ( in conjunction to that given above - more detail {?}):
A new type of electromagnetic radiation?
The dynamics of the electric charge (electron) generates in the space of a dynamic electromagnetic field. Dynamics of charge always has translational and rotational component [9]. On the dominant translational component is working any radio system in the world. The rotational component remains out of sight. ... Now it is necessary to reveal the "mystery" of the antenna, which was called copper "tablet." The device is quite simple:

conclusion
In one popular article is difficult to explain all the experimental material accumulated in a short time of existence and use EH-Antenna. However, some of the results of observations and measurements must be said.
- Firstly, the new radiation well passes through the diamagnetic and paramagnetic. In preliminary experiments, the new radiation, unlike the electromagnetic waves can propagate in water and in the ground.
- Second, the experience of the comparison to conventional radio and EH-antennas can be assumed that this radiation has a very high velocity of propagation (far exceeding the speed of light) or an infinite speed of propagation. See full detailed article:
https://translate.google.com/transla....ru/new_em.htm

Hz/EH - Practical Implementation{s} (experimental physicist - Ham Radioist):
Vladimir Korobeynikov, St. Petersburg, RU

Magnetic antenna for ultra-long radio
Magnetic antenna for ultra-long radio (Radio spin on electromagnetic field)
"HZ radio new unknown direction. Research, experimental work in this way is enough for everyone and still remain. For example, H z radio can operate below ground, underwater. EH antennas do not have to put on an iron pedestal. From this bandwidth will be very narrow. It is desirable to use plastic or aluminum. In this case, the bandwidth is superior to a typical pin. All of the above "attention" only a small part, as they say, "vskidku" for the initial understanding that the classical theory of antennas in this case has nothing to do and do not have to be like Mitrofanushka to its "priladit" to H z radio."

https://translate.googleusercontent....ygWBc0mQQeVXgQ

Truth and fiction EH-Antenna
" EH antenna intensified unknown second component of a complex magnetic induction of electric charges (electrons). The dynamics of an electromagnetic field of electric charges (electrons) of each component (translational and rotational) has completely different properties in space. Readers with a high level of knowledge in the field of radio and Electrophysics can see and understand the theory that the unknown vector Hz oriented electrical charge (electron) with unusual properties, and brought the EH antenna on a totally unknown path in science. This - UNKNOWN RADIO by spin electromagnetic field in space."
https://translate.googleusercontent....20JEI9uplsHvLw

Two key takeaways (IMHO) are (1) Rapid HV discharge may create excess energy that might be similar to conventional electricity without a closed circuit and does not involve magnetics, and (2) Electromagnetic waves may consist of two components, translational - which is conventional, and rotational - which remains "out-of-sight" and is instantaneous.
These two phenomena might well explain, at least to some extent, the illusive OU effect when combined with asymmetrical design methods. Simulation is compounded since the system must be analyzed piece wise; but, it is not impossible to perform when using enhanced EM CAE methods and techniques.

FIN

very informative post, thanks for sharing.

[tswift]

OK, as promised here is the new test rig implementing the schematic previously mentioned. I needed some high-value resistors, I got a bunch of 100K carbon film resistors rated 2W and 500V each. I made a series array with 20 of them on a spare sheet of G10 fiberglass (I would have used acrylic but I know these will get quite hot), so I now have a 2M resistor array rated for 40 watts and 10KV. Sure enough, when hooked up to the output of my 10KV oil burner ignition transformer they get warm. The transformer is rated 240VA and 10KVAC, so that's a rated load current of 24 mA and an optimum load resistance of 416Kohms.

To get close to the 416K resistance I jumper to the middle of the resistor array and then use the exposed resistor leads as taps. In the photo I have six resistors on each side, so that's 600K but there are two legs in parallel, giving a 300K net load resistance. For this test I tried various settings but it didn't seem to make much difference.

The cap is the same 0.86 uF microwave oven cap I have used in various experiments. It's rated 2100VAC, but here it's not charging to anything near that because the 120V gas-discharge tube across it that shorts it into the transformer primary, as in the schematic. Using more capacitance reduces the spark rate for a given setting on the variac feeding the OBIT. With this small capacitor and the variac about halfway it sparks at a constant 60 Hz, with two half-wave charge cycles from the transformer bringing the cap up to the point where the GDT breaks down. The transformer is the same big metglas core I have used for numerous experiments. The resulting waveform is a nice half-sine cycle, but when you attach any load to it the voltage collapses greatly, showing no signs of reduced lenz's law.

So in conclusion: the circuit operates but no magic. I think there must be something missing, the schematic shows a cap bank as if it's implying a large capacitance, but I tried configurations up to 50 uF with a couple big motor run caps in parallel and the only difference it made was greatly reducing the spark rate. Also the variable resistor would seem to imply a much lower resistance value, it's hard to find real power-rated rheostat type resistors of more than 1-2K. This would still cause a voltage drop across the resistance when the cap is charging, which I assumed was the point of the circuit, but a much smaller voltage drop. With my high resistance array the voltage ON the cap (as opposed to the voltage ACROSS) the cap is nearly the full output voltage of the OBIT.

[soundiceuk]

Well, the diagram is a representation fron Soundiceuk, formerly Zilano :-).

Hey keep experimenting.My next experimenting spree begins as soon as I have amassed sustainable funding....

I normally don't check this thread.

Don't start BS rumours that I'm Zilano!


I helped the thread at one point as much as I could by getting involved in the research. My conclusion was Don had lost his marbles.

I'm not here perpetuating the thread anymore as it's not worth any more of my time.

Good luck but I sincerely doubt any of you are going to achieve anything apart from spending your funds.

Even Dynatron still hasn't got any further with the tech. I checked a Russian forum and translated it.

It's a shame as the exotic builds and components led us to believe Don had something special.

[Solarlab]

Recent Discoveries in Electrodynamics and Electromagnetics

F.Y.I.

NEW (recent*) DISCOVERIES IN ELECTRODYNAMICS AND ELECTROMAGNETICS
(Including practical, easily performed, experimental proofs)
* It appears Tesla knew of, and exploited, these phenomena long ago!

1. New view (*) of ELECTRODYNAMIC (ElectroStatic) INDUCTION

"For the current level of knowledge of physics occurrence of electric currents is an axiom of the impossibility of ensuring the Coulomb electric field (the field produced by electric charges, an electrostatic field) steady electrical current in a conductor." ... "With all of experimental studies, formulated the basic position: "The electromotive force generated in the circuit, directly proportional to the rate of change of the flow of the electrostatic field through any surface, based on the contour at the current excitation is significant only relative movement between the conductor and the electric field of the Coulomb nature." ... "In our view, this new kind of induction current in the conductor, which has electrodynamic nature, in contrast to the electromagnetic induction, it is appropriate to classify as an induction electrodynamic." ... "Opening fundamentally changes the previously known ideas in the theory of electricity on the induction of currents. Based on experimental and theoretical research we can say that the induction current (in some cases - is a conduction current) can occur without the presence of a closed circuit, and without the presence of conventional power sources (battery cells, batteries, etc.). The experiments presented have been shown, for the occurrence of the induced current substantially only relative movement the electric field source and the conductor."

SELF-ELECTRIC : electrodynamic induction
(employed to "explain" the "Tesla Antenna" operational theory)

??????????????????? ???????? : ??? ???? ???????? : ?????? : ElectroMaster - ????????? ? ??????????
English translation page:
https://translate.google.com/transla...3Fstoryid%3D42

2. New view (*) of ELECTROMAGNETICS and Propagation

The [EM or EH] dynamics of an electromagnetic field of electric charges (electrons) of each component (translational and rotational) has completely different properties in space...

THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS
NOTE: This area of study was employed to assist in "backing into" the "air coil" operational theory.
http://www.unconv-association.org/si...ions/EH_HZ.pdf

Commercialization of the EH/Hz Antenna discovery:
EH Antenna website:
EH Antenna Systems

THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS by V. Korobejnikow and T. Hart, August 2004:
http://www.eh-antenna.com/EH_HZ.pdf

Additional paper ( in conjunction to that given above - more detail {?}):
A new type of electromagnetic radiation?
The dynamics of the electric charge (electron) generates in the space of a dynamic electromagnetic field. Dynamics of charge always has translational and rotational component [9]. On the dominant translational component is working any radio system in the world. The rotational component remains out of sight. ... Now it is necessary to reveal the "mystery" of the antenna, which was called copper "tablet." The device is quite simple:

conclusion
In one popular article is difficult to explain all the experimental material accumulated in a short time of existence and use EH-Antenna. However, some of the results of observations and measurements must be said.
- Firstly, the new radiation well passes through the diamagnetic and paramagnetic. In preliminary experiments, the new radiation, unlike the electromagnetic waves can propagate in water and in the ground.
- Second, the experience of the comparison to conventional radio and EH-antennas can be assumed that this radiation has a very high velocity of propagation (far exceeding the speed of light) or an infinite speed of propagation. See full detailed article:
https://translate.google.com/transla....ru/new_em.htm

Hz/EH - Practical Implementation{s} (experimental physicist - Ham Radioist):
Vladimir Korobeynikov, St. Petersburg, RU

Magnetic antenna for ultra-long radio
Magnetic antenna for ultra-long radio (Radio spin on electromagnetic field)
"HZ radio new unknown direction. Research, experimental work in this way is enough for everyone and still remain. For example, H z radio can operate below ground, underwater. EH antennas do not have to put on an iron pedestal. From this bandwidth will be very narrow. It is desirable to use plastic or aluminum. In this case, the bandwidth is superior to a typical pin. All of the above "attention" only a small part, as they say, "vskidku" for the initial understanding that the classical theory of antennas in this case has nothing to do and do not have to be like Mitrofanushka to its "priladit" to H z radio."

https://translate.googleusercontent....ygWBc0mQQeVXgQ

Truth and fiction EH-Antenna
" EH antenna intensified unknown second component of a complex magnetic induction of electric charges (electrons). The dynamics of an electromagnetic field of electric charges (electrons) of each component (translational and rotational) has completely different properties in space. Readers with a high level of knowledge in the field of radio and Electrophysics can see and understand the theory that the unknown vector Hz oriented electrical charge (electron) with unusual properties, and brought the EH antenna on a totally unknown path in science. This - UNKNOWN RADIO by spin electromagnetic field in space."
https://translate.googleusercontent....20JEI9uplsHvLw

Two key takeaways (IMHO) are (1) Rapid HV discharge may create excess energy that might be similar to conventional electricity without a closed circuit and does not involve magnetics, and (2) Electromagnetic waves may consist of two components, translational - which is conventional, and rotational - which remains "out-of-sight" and is instantaneous.
These two phenomena might well explain, at least to some extent, the illusive OU effect when combined with asymmetrical design methods. Simulation is compounded since the system must be analyzed piece wise; but, it is not impossible to perform when using enhanced EM CAE methods and techniques.

FIN