Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Nvisser for your assistance in this!!

Try Control F and the word you are looking for.

[Dave45]

I was simply pointing out what the mechanism is that sets the secondaries in motion. The event in my test was simply an extreme example of what is going on, smaller devices obviously would operate on a much smaller pulse.

Dumping a .005uf cap at 5000 volts into a coil of say 50uh would give you a pulse of around 50 amps depending on the coil and it's internal resistance as well as the capacitors characteristics.

With a loose coupling a reasonable portion of the amperage would be transferred to the secondary coil(s). We want to contain the primary event in the secondary oscillator and allow the secondary to "freewheel" at it's natural resonant frequency. This is where tesla states that an "activity" in excess of the input is created. Not overunity - an activity...

The primary tank, if constructed and tuned precisely, will require only the initial input and enough to cover any losses that are inherent to the system then it simply recycles the amperage. This activity is transferred to the resonant secondary which operates in a similar fashion.

The problem arises when power is to be extracted as any load you place on this "freewheeling" activity will alter the parameters of the circuit. An example would be to measure a standard transformers inductance with no load then measure the same with a resistive load on the secondary... the inductance is changed considerably which means you have to back to the beginning and retune the entire system to that particular load. This makes the resonant system quite proprietary to it's output.

In order to make it less dependent on a load you need to separate the input and output. This is typically where the problems arise and you start playing the "time" game - that is charging caps at HF and discharging small amounts at a lower frequency. Tesla also stated you can only remove that amount of it's natural accumulation. Keep in mind the cap/inductor discharge also applies to output circuits as well.

If you look at Don's original drawings, he was depending on the primary tank circuit as the only resonant portion of that circuit, the output coils were simply set up as a full wave rectified output to charge capacitors then to be discharged through an output transformer via inverter circuit, most likely a distribution transformer. This tank circuit had to be precisely tuned to the charging load presented by it's secondary system.

very useful info
Thanks

[Duncan]

Hi Vissie Nice to see you on the thread!

[Farmhand]

I was simply pointing out what the mechanism is that sets the secondaries in motion. The event in my test was simply an extreme example of what is going on, smaller devices obviously would operate on a much smaller pulse.

Dumping a .005uf cap at 5000 volts into a coil of say 50uh would give you a pulse of around 50 amps depending on the coil and it's internal resistance as well as the capacitors characteristics.

With a loose coupling a reasonable portion of the amperage would be transferred to the secondary coil(s). We want to contain the primary event in the secondary oscillator and allow the secondary to "freewheel" at it's natural resonant frequency. This is where tesla states that an "activity" in excess of the input is created. Not overunity - an activity...

The primary tank, if constructed and tuned precisely, will require only the initial input and enough to cover any losses that are inherent to the system then it simply recycles the amperage. This activity is transferred to the resonant secondary which operates in a similar fashion.

The problem arises when power is to be extracted as any load you place on this "freewheeling" activity will alter the parameters of the circuit. An example would be to measure a standard transformers inductance with no load then measure the same with a resistive load on the secondary... the inductance is changed considerably which means you have to back to the beginning and retune the entire system to that particular load. This makes the resonant system quite proprietary to it's output.

In order to make it less dependent on a load you need to separate the input and output. This is typically where the problems arise and you start playing the "time" game - that is charging caps at HF and discharging small amounts at a lower frequency. Tesla also stated you can only remove that amount of it's natural accumulation. Keep in mind the cap/inductor discharge also applies to output circuits as well.

If you look at Don's original drawings, he was depending on the primary tank circuit as the only resonant portion of that circuit, the output coils were simply set up as a full wave rectified output to charge capacitors then to be discharged through an output transformer via inverter circuit, most likely a distribution transformer. This tank circuit had to be precisely tuned to the charging load presented by it's secondary system.

Well said Dragon, I think Dons system works just like you say. The primary circuit is resonant (with the secondary in my opinion), the load on the secondary will alter it's parameters and so the entire system needs to be either calculated out or the system tuned to the load (with the load in place) or the load tuned to the system kinda the same thing. It has been mentioned before in this thread.

With the secondary coils opposite wound one CCW one CW and using a CCW primary the voltage out of both ends will be high and opposite polarity or out of Phase, with two CCW secondaries the voltage at one end will be high and the voltage at the other end low, I think. Personally I think I'll wind the coils all CCW and build the circuit as per Dons original drawing when I get around to it.

I think both ways will work if the center tap and the two secondary ends are connected to the bridge rectifier correctly for the way the coils are wound.

I still don't see how to down invert 8000 volts DC to 240 volts AC, what kind of transistors are needed for that ? If the inverter circuit is built it can be tested with the rectified output of an NST into the HV DC supply caps.

The usefulness of the circuit would be limited to the constant load condition or at least to the fact that if the load is changed the tuning must be adjusted, either by the sliding primary or otherwise. One thing that cannot be done is the circuit tuned to resonance then the load added and retain resonance.
Not in my opinion. When the output transformer is loaded differently the resonance will most likely be affected. I think it will only be good for lighting light bulbs in it's basic configuration.

Cheers

[Slovenia]

Zilano Posts

I've been studying all of the Zilano posts very hard. She said in several of her posts that she has provided us with all the information we need to build this Don Smith device. She says though that we really need to go back and study well what she has provided to us. There are roughly 400 pages to study if you study my Zilano pdf files.

[mr.clean]

What does the scope shot signify?

Here are some links that contain some useful information:

Javascript MMC designer

Tesla Coil Design, Construction and Operation Guide

TeslaMap - Tesla Coil Design Program

Eastern Voltage Research - DRSSTC Books

http://www.easternvoltageresearch.co...stcpreview.pdf

WOW these are great sites, thanks!

[quantitant2011]

you cannot do this because the frequency output from NST very high and can make distorsion frequency in MOT transformer. i hope you can understand my explaination.

[philly b]

I've been studying all of the Zilano posts very hard. She said in several of her posts that she has provided us with all the information we need to build this Don Smith device. She says though that we really need to go back and study well what she has provided to us. There are roughly 400 pages to study if you study my Zilano pdf files.

Hi everyone, first time posting here. I studied the don stuff a few years ago, its only since xmas ive been playing catch up with the zilano information. Ive been thru the deleted posts once (will probly have to read again several times). She often metions 2 and 4 inch radius coils not 2 and 4 inch diameter , do you guys think this was part of the language barrier or a typo? I know don was using 2 inch diameter.

-phil.

[dragon]

Well said Dragon, I think Dons system works just like you say. The primary circuit is resonant (with the secondary in my opinion), the load on the secondary will alter it's parameters and so the entire system needs to be either calculated out or the system tuned to the load (with the load in place) or the load tuned to the system kinda the same thing. It has been mentioned before in this thread.

With the secondary coils opposite wound one CCW one CW and using a CCW primary the voltage out of both ends will be high and opposite polarity or out of Phase, with two CCW secondaries the voltage at one end will be high and the voltage at the other end low, I think. Personally I think I'll wind the coils all CCW and build the circuit as per Dons original drawing when I get around to it.

I think both ways will work if the center tap and the two secondary ends are connected to the bridge rectifier correctly for the way the coils are wound.

I still don't see how to down invert 8000 volts DC to 240 volts AC, what kind of transistors are needed for that ? If the inverter circuit is built it can be tested with the rectified output of an NST into the HV DC supply caps.

The usefulness of the circuit would be limited to the constant load condition or at least to the fact that if the load is changed the tuning must be adjusted, either by the sliding primary or otherwise. One thing that cannot be done is the circuit tuned to resonance then the load added and retain resonance.
Not in my opinion. When the output transformer is loaded differently the resonance will most likely be affected. I think it will only be good for lighting light bulbs in it's basic configuration.

Cheers

Dealing with the output is definitely a challenge... I put together a rotary spark gap inverter to discharge the storage caps through a distribution transformer. My tests with this so far has proved to be one possible solution. Below a schematic of a basic spark gap inverter and the rotary device I built for testing the idea... I used a MOT in reverse which isn't the best choice as I'm limited to input voltage but it proved this would function as expected. I'd like to build a commutator make and break with some adjust-ability in the pulse width.

Considering the action that takes place in the cap/inductor discharge where you loose 90% of the voltage to convert to amperage you can come fairly close to calculating the output side to get a more useable voltage without all the conversions. As an example, say we have a 10 turn primary that we dump 5000 volts into and 90% is converted to amperage leaving 10% of the voltage intact or around 500 volts. Divided by 10 turns we have 50 volts on each turn which is transferred to the secondary coil. We need, say, 250 volts for our output inverter so our secondary would be at or around 5 turns. Most likely slightly higher factoring in the loose coupling. Basically, we need maintain as much amperage as possible cycling in the primary tank, tuned to reduce input requirements as much as physically possible, so the transfer to the secondary maintains a reasonably high amperage with the voltage level needed in our output. Inductive heating circuits are good ones to follow for the primary tank. Tesla mentioned briefly that when he placed a foil in close proximity of his primary coil it would disintegrate instantly giving us a good idea of the currents circulating.

I'm playing with a few ideas that should show this whole process can be done at a much lower voltage. Remember, we aren't building the classic tesla coil here.

[Guruji]

LC tank

How can I found capacitance to a known inductance coil?
With this formula w=sqrt of 1/LC
C=?

[JohnStone]

Hi folks,
have a major compter crash! All computers need new setup. No data loss I will be back as soon as possiple. Love our posts!
rgds john

[Duncan]

Sorry carved that up

W = root 1/LC square both sides

W squared = 1/LC invert both sides

1/W(squared) = LC/1divide both sides by L

1/W(Squared)/L = C dont look very nice but it'll do it for you

[Guruji]

LC circuit

L/W(squared) =C ... that is only W squared not L/W

Thanks Duncan.
f=w/2pi


So to know the exact capacitor one have to know inductance and frequency yes?

[Slovenia]

No Language Barrier

I don't think there was a language barrier. She did write a lot like they do in text messaging. There are a lot of repeat posts to check when in doubt too. A lot of guys kept asking the same questions and the answers were a lot of time in different words but meant the same thing. I'd suggest to read and study the compendium of Zilano posts. Always nice to hear from a new set of eyes.

Hi everyone, first time posting here. I studied the don stuff a few years ago, its only since xmas ive been playing catch up with the zilano information. Ive been thru the deleted posts once (will probly have to read again several times). She often metions 2 and 4 inch radius coils not 2 and 4 inch diameter , do you guys think this was part of the language barrier or a typo? I know don was using 2 inch diameter.

-phil.

[Duncan]

Thanks Duncan.
f=w/2pi


So to know the exact capacitor one have to know inductance and frequency yes?

unless you have a nice variable HT supply like Mr Clean .. yes
but normally get very close and then alter the coil connection slightly XL is the way to go.