Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Patrick Kelly]

Diagram query

Hi Patrick, It looks to me like in the "for accumulation" diagram either the
diode or the capacitor are around the wrong way. I don't think it will work like
that, and if an electrolytic capacitor was used it could explode.

Well I don't see how it could work like that anyway, it would charge the
negative plate of the capacitor with positive charge.
Seems odd it is overlooked.

Cheers

Hi,

I think that the diode inside the diamond shape is merely intended to indicate that the diamond is a diode bridge and in that case, the capacitor will be connected to the bridge in the standard way, giving the correct polarity.

My understanding of the point about output not affecting input power is that it takes some fixed amount to power the input, say 200 watts, and with some systems any number of outputs can be powered by that fixed input, just as in a radio transmitter feeding thousands of receivers. If, like Tesla, the available power is less than the input, say 100 watts, then having ten tuned pick-up coils the output power could be 1000 watts giving COP=5. Switching off one of those coils will not affect the input power as the transmitter runs without 'knowing' anything about any of the pick-up coils and it is not affected in any way by what they might be doing. So, switching off one pick-up coil drops the output power to 900 watts and doing that affects nothing else. That seems like a very desirable system to me.

Patrick

[T-1000]

Yes but in practice what exactly does the "output having zero influence on the input" actually mean ?

I would say it means that if the input is say 200 watts then when no load is
taken the input is still 200 watts (hardly desirable) and it also means that 200
watts or less is the limit of the output (no more desirable), if not, what is the limit.

So a 50 Kw system would use 50 Kw even if no power was taken from the
system. That seems like the pinnacle of inefficiency to me.
O
People seem to be implying that the output having no effect on the input
means the output is limitless.

I am asking what is the output limit if the output has no effect on the input ?

Cheers

When you got proper 90 degrees between primary and secondary coils magnetic fields, you do not cancel it and magnetic field of secondary do not have Lenz law on primary. So you create magnetic field with primary coil what is not affected by secondary coils then put around efficient coils for induction then get out much power as you can and overcome power requirements for primary coils. This is what Tesla coil was ment to do and this is what our team did in first experiment with coil-capacitor.

[Farmhand]

Hi,

I think that the diode inside the diamond shape is merely intended to indicate that the diamond is a diode bridge and in that case, the capacitor will be connected to the bridge in the standard way, giving the correct polarity.

My understanding of the point about output not affecting input power is that it takes some fixed amount to power the input, say 200 watts, and with some systems any number of outputs can be powered by that fixed input, just as in a radio transmitter feeding thousands of receivers. If, like Tesla, the available power is less than the input, say 100 watts, then having ten tuned pick-up coils the output power could be 1000 watts giving COP=5. Switching off one of those coils will not affect the input power as the transmitter runs without 'knowing' anything about any of the pick-up coils and it is not affected in any way by what they might be doing. So, switching off one pick-up coil drops the output power to 900 watts and doing that affects nothing else. That seems like a very desirable system to me.

Patrick

Hi Patrick, Would you care to demonstrate that ?

Cheers

[boguslaw]

If Nikola Tesla was to come back to life now and seen a solar panel I think he would be
very pleased with what he saw. I think he would probably say it was a natural
extension or evolution of his radiant energy receiver and I think he would likely
use them to charge his batteries for his experiments. And probably set about
improving their efficiency if he thought it possible.

Granted solar panels are not practical for everyone, but why is that ? Because
too many people are stuck in the cities ? Because people use and waste too
much electrical energy ? Or is it because of the government corruption, taxes
and consumerism ?

The root of all our problems lie with our corrupted governments, greed, the
love of money and control and our willingness to waste. In my opinion.

What good is any free energy system if we are not free to use them as we wish.
It seems to me if our governments are slaves to TPTB then before we can
progress to free energy they must be made to serve us and not them.
Evil still controls the masses.

Cheers

I don't understand you. Seems that you are going to discourage us ??! I hope not!

T-1000 posted very important tip, almost solution I think. Yes, it must work that way ; always max power circulating, it is clearly visible in tariel presentation (clear box video) : there is NO DIMINUITION OF OUTPUT VOLTAGE with one bulb or 4.5kW set of bulbs connected to the system. The only problem is that the safety device clicked faster or slower and then failed at the end (because it was hand made spark gap). Unfortunately the same thing we see in Don Smith devices with varactor ,varistors and other elements to dump excess power to ground , but here everything is wisely computed and exces power is eliminated by choosing proper output power per load.


Here is how it MUST work.I connected all "dots" here
1. Resonant circuit with OUTPUT POWER circulating.How ? Simple - using Tesla methods to charge capacitor and discharge into oscillating coil.In simplest case : you charge capacitor (condenser) via inverter, disconnect inverter and oscillate capacitor energy to coil (coil with own capacitance or shunted with capacitor ) in LCR circuit using low resistance mosfets. Vide Ghazanfar Ali thread in overunity.com for details of ultimate circuit (Kapanadze uses probably less eficient because it is hard to get mosfets for 230V of high power and low resistance). Tesla was master and just used high voltage capacitors with proper make&break constroller : the same big power but less current..

2. Point two is secret part : special coil without lenz law influence on primary. Various embodiments possible I think, for the best I would ask Alfred Hubbard but he is unavailable like Don Smith too maybe T-1000 would be willing to answer, I can only discuss theoretically

3. The output part. Various ways ; AC, DC pulsed with ferrite core or iron core or maybe not but you should get the idea.

4. Possibiliy of amlification : there is slight chance based on Tesla Pierce Arrow history that iron transmutation is additional source of energy on output stage .

But idea is simple : get resonance and keep it copied into secondary place where you cen load it down. Unfortunately it require somekind of clever energy limiter.
It is entirely possible.

[Farmhand]

When you got proper 90 degrees between primary and secondary coils magnetic fields, you do not cancel it and magnetic field of secondary do not have Lenz law on primary. So you create magnetic field with primary coil what is not affected by secondary coils then put around efficient coils for induction then get out much power as you can and overcome power requirements for primary coils. This is what Tesla coil was ment to do and this is what our team did in first experiment with coil-capacitor.

I disagree, can you show reference to where it is explained by Tesla that is
what is meant to happen ? And if enough receivers are placed around a radio
transmitter the signal can be pulled down I believe. Can you prove otherwise ?

What you are saying is that a radio transmitter only needs a fixed input for
any number of "un-powered" receivers. I think the reality is that the radio
transmitter just outputs a far greater amount of power than is needed by all
the "powered" receivers because the "powered" receivers only require a miniscule
signal to operate.

When I see an accurately measured device with a fixed input and multiple
receivers outputting more accurately measured power than is input to the
transmitting device I will believe it.

And can you show measured output greater than input. Because the rating of
a bulb is just an indication of the power consumed from the rated source to light
the bulb to the recommended amount, ie, if the bulb is a 100 watt 240 volt
bulb then it will consume about 100 watts from a 240 volt 60 Hz source.
Lighting a bulb to any brightness is not an indication of the actual power if
other than if the recommended supply is used. Different frequencies and
applied voltages will give differing results, will it not ?

Where are the measurements ? A third party qualified to measure the input
and output of the device needs to have access to it to test it properly.

I haven't seen any proof or third party measurements. After all you are
claiming more energy or power out than in, please show it measured then i will
believe it.

The problem of the continued unchanged input even with a small load has not
been addressed either. What of that?

Cheers

[boguslaw]

Ah, and yes of course ; could be many output coils and even arranged in circle so excess power is not dump anythere. I'm still not 100% convinced that many coils will create more output power however. As T-1000 said the output is by induction not by EM wave or radiant wave. Only radiant wave seems allowing more COP somehow but this is to discuss later.
Simply : COP > 1 is because of resonance. Like in CFL bulbs ; you put charge inside capacitor and oscillate very long time via neon to produce more light then one shot via filament bulb.Corrent ?

[Duncan]

Thanks T1000

And so in rough terms It is quite clear for all to see that this machine of Tks for example TARIEL KAPANADZE EVERYTHING .. WE KNOW FOR NOW..swf - YouTube which uses one 9v battery for 1 second is generating far more power than could possibly be applied, Here's Mr Clean demonstrating much the same thing on this thread .Don Smith Device Project Part 20b: Revised Schematic, Increased Output, and Capacitor Discharge - YouTube and so there is a very tangible visible and demonstrable huge power gain!
And so what is T1000 and Vladimir and I guess every one else trying to tell us ?

1st .. That the ideal condition of the first coil is centred on resonance, In this condition it is exhibiting the highest impedance possible to the source battery and using the very least amount of power possible … just like a pendulum Coil Resonance Tutorial 1 - YouTube

2nd .. Holding that resonant condition on the first coil . Two more coils are introduced (In our case one coil with a centre tap) The coils are moved around carefully until with the resonance being maintained (minimum power consumption ) this exponential (trumpet like) gain is discovered here's Mr Clean showing it to you Don Smith Device Project Part 20c: Transient Spikes Powering Load From TOP, down - YouTube and here's a very approximate demonstration of what’s being done opposite coils - YouTube
I believe what is being shown is that with careful adjustment the input can be held at resonance (minimum possible power consumption) whilst you are free to take advantage of the interacting fields I believe this is what Arunas is telling us above and Vladimir explains Page 27 and later invites us to experiment and prove the concept circa page 45.
And so really the operation is entirely the reverse of what you envisage Farmhand of “maximum possible power being being consumed already” .. Minimum power is actually consumed because resonance is maintained.

[cinan]

It won't work quite like people think. The energy available in radiations will always be less than the input. try it and see. That particular setup of Don Smiths rely's on radiations. Tesla's system did not.

Here are some quotes from Nikola Tesla and his work on alternating currents.
Nikola Tesla On His Work With Alternating Currents -- Chapter IV

..

Farmhad, you have to understand two things. One is High frequency alternating current and second is Radiant energy. Two totally different topic ! Tesla was involved in High frequency alternating current research until 1892, and his is lecture what you are referring to is about that.

Another lecture given on Xmass 1892 : Dissipation of electricity is lecture discussing Radiant waves and after that Tesla completely abandoned High freq. alternating current and started serious Radiant Energy research.

All devices with excess of energy are RADIANT EVENT based devices. You can't get OU without Radiant Energy. So your "The energy available in radiations will always be less than the input" is not true. Unless you have mixed terms....

As ZZZ asked long time ago : "What is radiant event...." and this is exactly what we are up to. To get radiant event ! Gray, Tesla, Smith, Bedini, Baumann ant tons of others are harvesting Radiant Energy Flow caused by Radiant Event !

As Tesla stated : " Once radiant energy (aether) is moved, it has tendency to sustain that flow for a while..... Its like inertia. Imagine you in car, traveling 70km/h and suddenly start braking.. What happen ? You are pushed forward.....

So goal is to make radiant event (DC pulse), limit current flow and magnify that, Then you can harvest excess energy as only radiant energy is involved....See Tesla's pancake coil. Exactly geometry for event to happen...

See also Meyl shows Tesla longitudinal waves for wireless energy transmission - YouTube. Meyl is showing difference between electromagnetic and scalar interactions...

As stated before, each coil has TWO resonant frequencies separated by 1.52 . And that is also very important info.


cheers Cinan

[JohnStone]

I feel the discussion tries to ride two horses at same time.
1.
Standard science says that our efforts are nonsense. Electric and magnetic field appear like conjoined twins and therefore the common notion is that the magnetic field is the transporter of energy within a transformer of any kind. It is fully correct to use these goggles from time to time in order to review.

2.
Some current scientists state that the "mechanics" in a transformer is NOT the magnetic field within the core but the magfield is a byproduct of this energy transfer. As long as we understand a transformer in standard modeling terms we will use the mechanism symmetrically and ever ever will invite Lenz as breaksman.
If the current scientists are right then we have other dimensions of freedom in order to engineer transformer mechanisms and capacitor loading mechanism (see Utkin's last additions).

3.
Please understand that we all together are not able to grasp the reality. We need a prosthesis (thinking models) in order to comprehend some of the facettes of the reality. Conventional scinece is one of these models. History proved that none of all models survived for long time unchanged - and they changed abrupt mostly. Tesla and others including Utkin, Zilano .... invite us to have a glimpse to another set of facettes.

4.
If we accept this we start to test the reality in another way. It's like children - they do not care of reality or goals or scinence - they just try what works for them. (read at other place: .... Except ye be converted, and become as little children,....) Reality does funcion without any science or math.
It's like falling in love. Doing this is a complete irational behaviour - you abandon your traditional reality in order to test another facette being very lovely. And as we all know both realities interact and make sense - together.

5.
- The losses of the exiting circuit are real and will ever be. The exitation - depending of circuit type can prefer or foster different mechanisms (some more radiant some more standard) - We have to engineer it!
- The exitation (of matter, electrons or whatever) in the harvest circuit takes place with or without backlash (Lenz i.e.) to the exitation circuit. If we open the exitation blackbox of standard science we discover the fine gear inside being hidden before. - We have to engineer it!
- The clue of OU circuits is to install a firewall in order to prevent backlash like closed circuits. This is what Zilano and Utkin teach. Think of a filter, diode or similar. (i.e. Utkin an Zilano show how to buld an inductive diode) - We have to engineer it!

6.
So my intention ist not to add gently some humble bits only. I want to change the horse, I happened to fall in love with OU reality and i feel very good with separating the conjoined twins. I admit this is no serious science. Love is no serious scince. All great discoverers were no "serious" scinteists when experimenting.

Let's assume that there is an unknown mechnism and we see the cover only - just now. Let's assume that Utkin, Zilano, Tesla, T1000, Romereo ..... got to lift the cover a bit and they tell us untold observations. For some of their notions they have no clear terms in languange availabe and sometimes they might be wrong. Does it matter? Does it change any fecettes of the reality?
They say we can overcome the conjoined twins. We are requested to try and find out and observe and share first. Find out where the weak walls are in scinence and escape there, occupy them. The theories will be born later on along with beer and parties.

Thaks to all contributors in this form

rgds John

[dragon]

Wow ! This is a great debate ! Thanks Farmhand - spark some of those grey cells....

What are the most important things needed to drive a load? I would think a potential difference and current flowing in the wires. How can you create a potential difference? Can it be done in a single wire? I think we all know the answer to that. Can it be done without loading the input? A closed circuit always destroys the energy - single pass electrical use - in and out then gone. Can it be recycled? used again, over and over - efficient use of the energy initially put into the system. Tesla stated you can light a 100 watt bulb with 100 volts and 1 amp or light the same bulb with 1000 volts at .1 amp... Whats the difference? Using ohms law what are the losses in each system? 1^2*100=100watt or .1^2*100 = 1watt ...

What if we design ultra efficient circuits that tend to recycle the energy, they would create an activity that appears greater than the input.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed but it can be recycled, stored and converted, as well, we should be able to draw the energy from nature through a conversion since nature stores it in a multitude of ways.

If you have a potential difference between two coils you should be able to run a load between them assuming there is also a current flow - maybe caused by the load. So if one coil is running at 5000 volts and the other is at 4880 you have a potential difference of 120 volts. If the coils are only connected by the load they form a capacitive link or a simple (LCR) tank circuit and we are simply recycling the energy back and forth through the resistive link. Since losses are measured by amperage and resistance then it would stand to reason we should run the voltages to higher extremes.

We talk a lot about resonance in the coils as the main culprit of overunity ( a term overly abused ). Do we really understand resonance? Are we looking at one coil and try to set resonance to that coil with another coil/cap combination? Ok so they are both resonant - big deal - what is the interaction with the environment - if any? What if Tesla's resonance was different than what we believe we know about resonance today? Why would you build something you know doesn't work... radio stations aren't overunity - are they?

Ok, so what the heck am I talking about... you have a 1/4 wave coil and a primary that is 1/4 of that. The natural resonance of the coils is only part of the overall picture. The 1/4 wave coil is resonant at one frequency and the primary should be resonant at 4x the larger one( give or take). Do you suppose there could be a frequency that both coils would respond to that isn't the natural resonant frequency of either coil yet will bring them into natural resonance? A harmonic resonance maybe? A disruption of the natural flow where one coil feeds the other working in harmony - blowing the "trumpet wave" as it were.....

enough said

[Patrick Kelly]

Query

Hi Patrick, Would you care to demonstrate that ?

Cheers

I seriously doubt that any intelligent person would need a concept as simple as that to be demonstrated.

Patrick

[JohnStone]

.... Tesla stated you can light a 100 watt bulb with 100 volts and 1 amp or light the same bulb with 1000 volts at .1 amp... Whats the difference? Using ohms law what are the losses in each system? 1^2*100=100watt or .1^2*100 = 1watt ...

My notion differs. We have to sides of a coin:

1.
In normal science the bulb is not seen as loss but the loss is seen in the generator and the leads - it originates from the current. Your calculation for this parts is correct. Increase the voltage, decrease the amps and we have less losses -BUT - the bulb behaves identical = 100W. Different filament because of the voltage but still 100W. It is hot electricity (Zilano). Hot electricity is: energiezd electrons ready to perform in an closed lossy circuit. This is what we need in the very end in order to make use of electricity in heaters, bulbs, motors ....
Hot energy flow likes (Ohm's circuits) low resistance (imagine water in a creek).

2.
Apart from this we have evidence of cold electricity. This behaves different. It likes high resistance. But this is nothing to be calculated by Ohm's law. Look at Don's resistor deviders at high voltage output. They have "hot" losses (180 KOhm / 4 KV). But apart from hot electricity the cold one likes to pass these resistors - and it is much more energy contained herein. (Imagine helim filled ballons in a church - they like hight) The hot electricity originates later on in the coils of the converter.

3.
If Bedini SSG, Don or others the exciting apparatus generates somthing invisible, unmeasurable propagating along wires, resistances .... Capacitors seem to convert to something usable, lead batteries, coils from converters.
See Avramenco plug. You pulse high voltage into both leads of a capacitor and it converts VOLTAGE in exited electrons - usable hot electicity.
Perhaps only Tesla knew what the heck happens in a resonant circuit along high voltage.
Request: high voltage DC pulsed

4.
I assume that the observed conventional resonance is a byproduct only from something different happening behind. This "something" we have to explore. We need to find out what the effects are. I assume this "something" is related to wire length as well.
BTW: There is a new notion that the self capacitance of a coil is too high in order to originate from the windings only. There is an unknown effect acting. Don't understand formulas as reality. They are models with assumptions, constants, simplifications added. Thy apply to specific applications and are NOT of general use in foggy environment!
Request: high voltage resonance.

@ ALL: Read Utkin. He points out all of these elements. We need to study them. We need to comprehend them as building stones.
Every home was built by a plurality of them and you can build very different homes out of the same bricks.
rgds John

[dragon]

Very interesting John... I look at a circuit as the total of losses, we call this our input. So when the 100 watt bulb is placed in a conventional closed loop circuit then we see an 100 watt loss to drive that bulb. If, however, we place the same bulb in series with a capacitor the bulb will light until the capacitor is full - the energy isn't gone as in a closed loop it is stored. It seems to me there isn't as many losses as one might think through a resistive load. It also appears that the only thing we've done is altered the flow with relationship to time through and RC circuit. The energy is still there...

Since the cap has stored the energy passing through the bulb we need to remove the energy for the bulb to light once again, the same energy that lit the bulb to begin with... this same energy could pass through another load and would be capable of charging another cap along the way. Eventually the result would be all the energy is converted but we were able to use it more than once...

I'm really not concerned with the "cold" side, it's more about the efficient use of the end result. If we are more conservative on the output then input takes care of itself.

Everything we do can be done more efficiently -

[dragon]

The scale of our known universe....

http://images.4channel.org/f/src/589...e_enhanced.swf

[Duncan]

Thank you T1000

Here are principal things to think about...
When you have canceling EM with opposite wires, the magnetic field stays on 90 degrees. There you put coils for induction and load what does not affect input.

Please see my quick sketch attached:

I have taken the liberty of working on your sketch a little bit and I hope amplified what you are telling us,