Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Farmhand]

When i look at Don's original circuit drawing I honestly don't see how it could
work like that, the center tap is not grounded the two ends are and the two ends are joined together.



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This is how I see some work could maybe be got from the ground disturbance.
Please don't quote me on this it's just a thought, something to think about.

The small drawing at the bottom will work for charging the cap and I've seen
a lot of people not using the both ends together.
Maybe if both sides were rectified separately then added as DC like the next
sketch down might work.



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I will try it the way Don's drawing is shown, but I am going to use all CCW
wound coils just like Don explained, if he left something out then fair enough,
but if he deliberately gave a detailed explanation of false information then I
would think he was a hoaxer, as yet I am undecided. If both coils are wound
CCW and the ends joined they should cancel each other out as far as I can tell.

I'll also try this setup with two bridge rectifiers in parallel. As well as other things.



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Personally I think I would be most inclined to ground the center tap and make
two out of phase 1/4 wave resonant coils from the two sides.

Cheers

[boguslaw]

Personally I would build that one attached. Don said that original schematic was deliberately spoiled. In fact that simpler circuit is showing that it' just electrical method of electrostatic induction usage. I have no doubt that it works ! It could be that I'm wrong and original circuit also works but we don't find it easily because it contain special coils while simpler one only require fast diodes and big electrolytic capacitor and proper resistive divider.

[JohnStone]

Conditioned capacitor.
....

WOW! Clear words! Thanks.
- So setups need to be observed for several days in order to judge their function.
- The notion is that our formulas cover a very special case where capacitors are not pulsed by special pulse technology.

Reading your text I remembered similarities in mechanic world.
1.
Accellerate a flywheel = 300 Joule
Stop it and accellerate again imediatly = 90 Joule
Stop it and wait 15 minutes and accellerate again = 300 Joule

2.
Bruce de Palma proved that a rotating ball accellerates faster by gravity than a non rotaing ball. The inertia is smaller when rotaing! So Newton's law covers exactly the special case that his apple is not rotating.
Bruce found that at a flywheel the inertia property shifts to peripheral areas with increasing rotation speed. Time is slightly different there. So if we drive our cars we generate time vorices by rotating engine, wheels ....!

It seems that all energy behaves in vortex mannor. A vortex can be instantiated by a certain means and it will decay with time. Flywheels, capacitors, Joe Cell - All special cases where our formulas are not designed for. And these vortices seem to unlash more energy than required to generate them because they happen somewhere in another physical compartment than the well known one.

[thugugly]

Thanks for info,

If I use anti-parralell the voltage doubles, won't that be too high to deal with.
I was going to use 2 in parralel to keep voltage lower. It's tough without a scope.
I'm using a newer coil that goes one for each cylinder. I could only find one reference where it is 70- 100 turns to 1. Does that mean Im gonna get at most say 1200 v out with 12 v in. It seems like I'm getting much more. spark will jump half a cm.
I am wondering what size cap rating I will need pre primary, it would be nice to keep it below 4000 v so i can use 2 of my microwave caps. Also if I put a 10 mohm across for safety, as has been suggested, won't that affect the resistor I'm gonna need for phase balance or timing with inductor.
Thanks
Thug

[Duncan]

E=MC2 ,,, except when its doing the twist!

WOW! Clear words! Thanks.
- So setups need to be observed for several days in order to judge their function.
- The notion is that our formulas cover a very special case where capacitors are not pulsed by special pulse technology.

Reading your text I remembered similarities in mechanic world.
1.
Accellerate a flywheel = 300 Joule
Stop it and accellerate again imediatly = 90 Joule
Stop it and wait 15 minutes and accellerate again = 300 Joule

2.
Bruce de Palma proved that a rotating ball accellerates faster by gravity than a non rotaing ball. The inertia is smaller when rotaing! So Newton's law covers exactly the special case that his apple is not rotating.
Bruce found that at a flywheel the inertia property shifts to peripheral areas with increasing rotation speed. Time is slightly different there. So if we drive our cars we generate time vorices by rotating engine, wheels ....!

It seems that all energy behaves in vortex mannor. A vortex can be instantiated by a certain means and it will decay with time. Flywheels, capacitors, Joe Cell - All special cases where our formulas are not designed for. And these vortices seem to unlash more energy than required to generate them because they happen somewhere in another physical compartment than the well known one.

And as I considered exactly the same thing a page or so back with the rapid change of a whip action on a sine wave (fly wheel) and got a bit carried away with what I saw ...

I guess this is the experiment refered to by Peter Linderman and fizix Korner here http://www.free-energy.ws/pdf/spinning_ball.pdf
During his conjecture on errors in Einsteins theory it is clear that the wheels fall off a few other cherished theories
Whilst I don’t want to deviate from the subject It might be useful to glance over the (known) statistics of people threatened murdered imprisoned maimed and financially ruined in the attempt to release “free energy” for the sake of humanity http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/GaryV.pdf
It is important that we continue not only for the next generations but in Memory of those that have blazed this trail before us.
It would be truly tragic if their efforts and ours were to prove in vain … yet again

[dragon]

When i look at Don's original circuit drawing I honestly don't see how it could
work like that, the center tap is not grounded the two ends are and the two ends are joined together.

Cheers

I felt the same way when I looked at the drawing... but... after doing a test with it some months ago ( posted this video last week on the test - windfilter's Channel - YouTube )

It was quite energetic, more so than I had expected. I tested it using both winding methods described and didn't see a major difference in output. Below is a basic diagram of that coil set up...

[Duncan]

Hello everyone,

I feel like I'm getting into this late, as there are lot's of people here with an incredible amount of knowledge.
Anyway, I have built a timing circuit with frequency and duty adjustable. I used two coils in parallel, and gets lots of sparks from the output to ground. I don't have an oscilliscope yet and I was wondering if the car coils will/are outputting 30- 40 khz since they have iron core, or do they have an iron core, and does it matter what the freq is out of the car coils, as long as i get a spark before my coil, since all freq are in the spark.
If anyone can help I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Thug

Hi Thug .. I too am using ignition coils as is Mr Clean ,, based on this tesla coil circuit RMCybernetics - DIY Mini Tesla Coil I guess damage can be done if using extreamly high frequency but we are not, Here;s Mr Clean using exactly the arrangement you describe http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post176698
If you read circa that post you will find the drawings and coil winding details
that will make your circuit operational. Of course as Mr clean says your actually making a Tesla coil in reverse .. which is where the frequencies and wavelengths come in your spark gap should be adjustable about that resonant point just as a common tesla coil is.. best wishes Duncan

[JohnStone]

Thanks for info,

If I use anti-parralell the voltage doubles, won't that be too high to deal with.
I was going to use 2 in parralel to keep voltage lower. It's tough without a scope.
I'm using a newer coil that goes one for each cylinder. I could only find one reference where it is 70- 100 turns to 1. Does that mean Im gonna get at most say 1200 v out with 12 v in. It seems like I'm getting much more. spark will jump half a cm.
I am wondering what size cap rating I will need pre primary, it would be nice to keep it below 4000 v so i can use 2 of my microwave caps. Also if I put a 10 mohm across for safety, as has been suggested, won't that affect the resistor I'm gonna need for phase balance or timing with inductor.
Thanks
Thug

Not very clear about your questions. Perhaps this helps and does not confuse.
We talk of 2 different animals:
1.
A transformer will have another ratio than winding ratio if we apply pulses. Then it will transfer an equivalent of current change per time unit. So it is no surprise to get high pulse peaks at output.

2.
But if you have a resonating coil and you apply a secondary then the winding ratio can be taken for calculating because of regular sine shape of your oscillations.

3. The capacitor before the spark gap is essential for power effect (Tesla). As we expect to produce huge and short pulses we do not need high capacitors before spark gap. I got regular sparking at 100-400 pF 8KV. But it depends on your complete setup. No component lives alone - they act as a community

i.e. if you have a 4 KV supply and try to fire the primary coil you have to take in account that this voltage at the coil oscillates - say +1000V / -1000V. So your SG expiences a voltage swing between a difference of +4000V / +1000V) = 3000V up to +4000V / -1000V = 5000V. So it will - given it is thorougly adjusted - prefer to fire at high voltage difference - but not to far from max negative point. It is an iterative process in order to start the firing and adjust it for constant operation. Tesla used spring loaded electrodes with an insulating handle - push to start and gradually retract to a predefined position.

It is no help for this process if we use huge values for the pre SG capacitor because you override any natural oscillation in brute forth mode - eventually cancelling out any oscillation. Then you get irregular firing. It is like misfiring a spark plug at a gasoline engine. The preferrable firing point is the top negative voltage (think of pushing a swing, think of a car engine...)
This is what Utkin talks of and Tseung as well.
Conforming Utkin that is not the end of story it is just the beginning.

[thugugly]

Our mentor Zilano told us not to use car coils because they would get hot and melt down quickly. As I recall they are iron cored.

thanks slovenia,
I figured the iron could melt but thuoght maybe it was composite or something. Anyway, thanks, I think I will wind one when I get a chance, I have a couple ferrite cores somewhere, but for now, since I' ve seen Mr. cleans, the car coil frequency must be workable, he seems to have lots of output.

[thugugly]

Hi Thug .. I too am using ignition coils as is Mr Clean ,, based on this tesla coil circuit RMCybernetics - DIY Mini Tesla Coil I guess damage can be done if using extreamly high frequency but we are not, Here;s Mr Clean using exactly the arrangement you describe http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post176698
If you read circa that post you will find the drawings and coil winding details
that will make your circuit operational. Of course as Mr clean says your actually making a Tesla coil in reverse .. which is where the frequencies and wavelengths come in your spark gap should be adjustable about that resonant point just as a common tesla coil is.. best wishes Duncan

Thanks Duncan,

Mr.Clean is quite advanced with this I see. A very bright guy.
I did use RMCybernetics circuit for the timer, I used a big jfet from a projection TV (like 900 v, 70 amps). There was a large bipolar which i tried first but couldn't enough volts out, and i blew alot of 555's and 393's. I stopped blowing ic's when I isolated the jfet with it's own 12 v. Seems to work well now, but maybe i could post it and someone can improve it for me.

Is there a collection of work you know of just on spark gaps?

Thug

[duff]

Thanks Duncan,
Is there a collection of work you know of just on spark gaps?
Thug

Wesley, stivep1 evaluated numerous different types in this video:

Spark Gap tubes evaluation for project part #2 OF VIDEOS - YouTube

[boguslaw]

I felt the same way when I looked at the drawing... but... after doing a test with it some months ago ( posted this video last week on the test - windfilter's Channel - YouTube )

It was quite energetic, more so than I had expected. I tested it using both winding methods described and didn't see a major difference in output. Below is a basic diagram of that coil set up...

This ma be important knowledge. In every Don Smith circuits ground connection is regulated by varactor , varistor or transil or spark gap. I suspect it won't work with low resistance connectiong to ground

[thugugly]

Not very clear about your questions. Perhaps this helps and does not confuse.
We talk of 2 different animals:
1.
A transformer will have another ratio than winding ratio if we apply pulses. Then it will transfer an equivalent of current change per time unit. So it is no surprise to get high pulse peaks at output.

2.
But if you have a resonating coil and you apply a secondary then the winding ratio can be taken for calculating because of regular sine shape of your oscillations.

3. The capacitor before the spark gap is essential for power effect (Tesla). As we expect to produce huge and short pulses we do not need high capacitors before spark gap. I got regular sparking at 100-400 pF 8KV. But it depends on your complete setup. No component lives alone - they act as a community

i.e. if you have a 4 KV supply and try to fire the primary coil you have to take in account that this voltage at the coil oscillates - say +1000V / -1000V. So your SG expiences a voltage swing between a difference of +4000V / +1000V) = 3000V up to +4000V / -1000V = 5000V. So it will - given it is thorougly adjusted - prefer to fire at high voltage difference - but not to far from max negative point. It is an iterative process in order to start the firing and adjust it for constant operation. Tesla used spring loaded electrodes with an insulating handle - push to start and gradually retract to a predefined position.

It is no help for this process if we use huge values for the pre SG capacitor because you override any natural oscillation in brute forth mode - eventually cancelling out any oscillation. Then you get irregular firing. It is like misfiring a spark plug at a gasoline engine. The preferrable firing point is the top negative voltage (think of pushing a swing, think of a car engine...)
This is what Utkin talks of and Tseung as well.
Conforming Utkin that is not the end of story it is just the beginning.

Hi JohnStone, Thank you that was a lot of help.
Let's see if I understand this;
Pulsed DC act's like AC in a transformer at resonance, which I assume i'm getting by adjusting freq and duty, i used four series neons to tune for brightness, i measured with freq counter around 9 khz, i wasn't sure, but sounds right now, thanks.

1. If I use 12 v input, and two car coils in paralell at res, not anti-paralell, my output could be 2000 v ac, 9 khz, max.
if anti-parralell, 4000 v at 9-18 khz.

2. My cap should be rated at 2000-4000 v, and a capacitance which should be low maybe .1 to 1 nf. This will not be the tuning cap value because its before the spark so i will need another cap (variable), to tune coil after spark, or will it go to natural res since after spark.

I've got a 16 ga. 2 inch B & W coil, 10 turns per inch, 10 inch long, for my primary, about 57 ft. I was going to try to step down at res, using 10 ga. wire at 1/4 primary, wind my L2's at ends of L1 but opposite ( 2 coils, 10 ft each) . I see mr clean used uneven number turns for his secondaries.

Thanks
Thug

[Slovenia]

Aaron Spark Gap

Aaron, site owner, has all sorts of information on spark gaps and circuitry. It's very impressive stuff indeed. There is a thread here on EF that covers it and there is also a lot of information on his device many other places archived.

Is there a collection of work you know of just on spark gaps?

Thug

[dragon]

I suspected the shorted coil would respond by dropping voltage and raising the current circulating in the shorted coil. The voltage output was considerably lower than driving it in a normal open ended fashion but still higher than I anticipated. There was current flowing in the shorted coil as the arc between the steel balls was thick and bright white.

The primary coil receives a 35 amp discharge at 120hz and I'm assuming there is still a reasonable amount of current transferred and circulating in the shorted secondary. My biggest problem at this point - with this arrangement - is dealing with the output... it's still in the 20kv range with more amperage than most diodes in that voltage range will handle.

Needless to say I've been working on smaller projects until I find a way to deal with the output of that set up. It's been shelved for several months now.

I've been working on an idea that would couple 2 coils where each is tuned slightly off to create a beat frequency ( 60hz ) that would allow the output to be processed directly through a distribution transformer. This way there isn't a need to convert it to DC and storing it in caps then re converting it through an inverter. Removing all the conversions would ultimately make it more efficient. Remember your storing only 1/2 the energy in the cap, thus the .5CV^2 the other half is in the coil... Time will tell...