Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Seeker2011]

The NST is nothing more than the "battery" to charge the cap in the primary tank. If you had a 3kv battery connected to the cap in the primary tank, once the spark gap was breached, wouldn't it oscillate at the pre-set value designated by the cap and coil?

The only difference is the ability of the NST to maintain a charge on the cap. This is why the cap is matched to the NST, simply for the ability to charge it in a short period of time. Once you have a cap that will be charged at a given rate then you can match the primary coil to that cap based on the frequency of the secondary coil. The spark gap will run at the frequency of the tank circuit until the energy drops to a level it can no longer breach the gap at which point it is dependent on the NST to charge it.

You can charge the cap with HV solar panels to drive the primary, use a voltage multiplier circuit, an NST or any other device designed to provide the HV. The spark gap, capacitor and coil is a passive oscillator... all it needs is energy in the cap and it will run...

Thanks for this.

[Seeker2011]

Hi soundiceuk, Dragon is right, the NST is only to charge the primary cap, but
the higher it's frequency and potential the faster it can charge a cap, even up
to the point where the primary cap can discharge more than once per cycle of
the supply. I know this because I can use a supply at 85 Hz to run a spark gap
firing in the Kz range. What happens is the supply charges the cap in a
fraction of one cycle, the cap discharges, then charges again while the supply
is still applying a potential difference to it on the same cycle, so multiple discharges can result
from each cycle of the supply. An ignition coil using a low duty (short pulses)
probably won't be capable of multiple cap charges per cycle even if used at
low Hz, but an AC transformer with 50-50 duty and a voltage output well
above the breakdown voltage of the spark gap could. There are other factors
involved too complicated to go into in one post.


Cheers

Good info. Do you have any experience with grid tie systems?

[dragon]

Do you have a specific reason for wanting a grid tie system? I have mixed feelings about grid tie systems... firstly it seems to me that it detracts from the primary goal of being self sufficient - maybe this is intentional. When you have a solar and/or wind system that is feeding a grid tie and the main grid goes down, so does your power. Making you just as dependent on the grid as you were without the grid tie. If, however, they made a system that would maintain a battery bank and auto switch when the grid goes down then it would be more practical. Secondly, If your making so much power you can feed the grid then you've definitely spent way to much on your system unless it was intentionally meant to make money.

I run my home on wind and solar which charges a battery bank and I use a standard inverter to convert the stored DC to the proper 120v 60hz output. When the grid goes down it doesn't affect me greatly. I still have some larger machines in my shop that are dependent on the grid, I also have an old lister diesel that will power my home and shop if needed an it burns about a gallon every 6 hours at full load, which is fairly expensive electricity but it's there primarily for emergencies..

I'd be interested in hearing others opinions on grid tie systems as well... although off topic..

[Seeker2011]

My thought was a grid tie would give you a fixed load so you could generate your max output all the time. Around here the utility will credit you up to the amount you use so you could zero out your bill without an expensive battery setup...just a thought.

[Mr.Whip]

Seems like Tesla "thorough adjusting" spark gap. I assume your plasma is silent (plese RE if not). That is no constant plasma - repetetive sparks above audible frequency. It's the right tuning .
Please give more details to the community

Hello, Yes the noisey white crackling exteral spark turns into a nice hiss inside the sparkplug, I can see purple plasma hissing around ceramic core of spark plug, Amps on NST supply drops. The 12V Lowglow NST is also running on reduced voltage threw a PWM. Without reducing the voltage No plasma just Loud erratating white static sparks Bulb will still light but nothing like with the Plasma. New NST should be comming soon. I'll have to borrow a camera and video once I get it.

My neighbor gave me a old lincoln arch welder Looks as the transformer could be a great start on my step down trafo. At least I have some nice 00 output leads....
Randy

[duff]

Don Smith Simulation

@all

I have spent much time calculating the values of the parts that Don used and doing simulations on the table top circuit. I have done my best to ensure values were as accurate as possible and I believe they are close to what Don used.

I was not able to simulate the sparkgap due to the fact that, when in the circuit, the simulation slowed down to 3ps/s. Not having any information on what Don used, it would be very difficult considering gas type, ionization, arc voltage, on/off impedance , etc...

Again, the sparkgap is shown in the schematic but not used in simulation.

Include is an .xls containing some data from select LTspice simulations.
Data includes runs made at multiples of the resonant frequency of L1/L2. voltages and frequencies of LC circuits, and COP.

Please note that the simulation was driven with a sine wave. Oddly, what ever the driving frequency used, L1/L2/L3, ALL OSCILLATE at the driving frequency, and NOT at the computed resonant frequency of 1/(2pi sqrt(L/C)).

Interestingly, several of the simulations produce a COP of 101.72.
This is not suppose to happen.

Below is what I believe to be the specs on the parts:

Primary Circuit
L1 Specifications

PVC Form: SDR 26 : 2 inch OD: .375"
Wire Type: stranded
Wire Size: 12 AWG, (80.807mils)
Insulation Thickness: .0310965"
OD Wire + Insulation: 0.143"
Coil Diameter: 2.5180"
Coil Length: 0.5720"
Coil Turn Spacing: 0.062193
Turns: 5
Wire Length: 3.32'
Wire Weight: 47.38 grams
Wire Resistance: 0.0033Ω
Inductance: 2.35uH
Self-Capacitance: 2.41pF
Self-Resonance Freq.: 66,897,812.36Hz
Dia vs Height Ratio: 0.23

Lead specs.

Lead Length: 18.5"
Calculated Lead Inductance: 570.6409nH

L1 Total Wire Length: 4.8617'
L1 Total Inductance: 2.921uH
Capacitors: 2 x 0.1uF = 0.2uF
Calculated Resonance: 208.241KHz

Diodes: 2 x Varo 25kv 25ma fast recovery Diodes - VF25-25x, 2" long 0.3 diameter
RF Spark Gap: Unknown


Secondary Circuit
3064 inductor from bwantennas.com
L2 Specifications
Wire Length: 13.45'
Wire Weight: 191.73 grams
Wire Resistance: 0.0134Ω
Coil Inductance: 11.76uH
Self-Capacitance: 3.89pF
Self-Resonant Freq.: 23,532,715.88Hz
Calculated Resonant Freq.: 212.4KHz

L2 Leads Specs.
L3 Lead Length (top): 4.75"
L3 Lead Length (bot): 2.375"
L3 Lead Inductance: 185.364nH
L3 Lead Resistance: 0.000951Ω


L3 Specifications
L3 Lead Length (top): 4.75"
L3 Lead Length (bot): 2.375"
L3 Lead Inductance: 185.364nH
L3 Lead Resistance: 0.000951Ω
Wire Parameter Calculator

L2 Total Wire Length: 14.04374'
L3 Total Wire Length: 14.04374'

L1:L2 Ratio: 14.04374/4.8617 = 2.89
L1:L2,L3 Ratio: (2*14.04374)/4.8617 = 5.78

Capacitors: 1 x ASC 0.047uF
ASC Capacitors Capacitor,
Metallized Polyester;
0.047uF; Axial; 6000VDC; +/-10%; 0.74In.Dia.
Mfr's Part#: X675-.047-10-6000 Allied Stk#: 225-6165

Voltage Collection Circuit
Diodes: 4 x Varo 25kv 25ma fast recovery Diodes - VF25-25x, 2" long 0.3 diameter
Capacitor Bank: 4 x 8uF, 2,000 volts connected in parallel (Total: 32uF @2000V)


don_smith_table_top_schematic-02.png

don_smith_table_top_waveform-01.png

http://www.asymtotic.net/don_smith/d..._table_top.xls

Edit:
I forgot to add that the simulation was driven at a frequency of 135.35665KHz at 5000V.
The duration was 10.6ms with a delay of 4ms before data collection began.
This was because there is a large power draw as the circuit come to a somewhat steady state output level.

The simulation could be further optimized if I had provided Schottky models for diodes.
Capacitor models would have also helped bring this to a more realistic level.
I was mainly interested in making the part specs available and trying to clear up some misunderstanding as to how this circuit behaved.

[Guruji]

Capacitors

Just another bit of knowledge:
There is evidence that the dielectric constant changes with magnetic field depending of the material. Researchers focus on very special materials. I found hints that for medical devices (MRT) they build very special capacitors not being affected by magnetic fields.

I did not find any research on plastic material like used for capacitors but articles say that polar molecules (most plastics are polar) and glass - see leyden jar - (perhaps mica) show this behaviour.

The behaviour is not linear. This could explain why hard pulsed capcitors (= high currents) charge in an anomalous way. OU comes along nonlinear systems. There are certain points in the graph where there are peak effects.

Please recall Utkin (referring to Faraday / Mislavskij) regarding the magentic field inside a capacitor while charging / discharging the plates.

Nonlinear capacitors are known and in production but are sold to military corporations only. Same fate like Fogal transistor.

So we have the hint that the insulation material of capacitors might have a major influence. So please document the capacitor make as well and try capacitors of different make.

@T1000: This fits to your notion regarding caps inside a coil!

We know similar behaviour from magnetics. Bedini states that in a small gap between opposing magnets (north preferred because it is stronger) we get a sudden field with 4 times stength. This is some magick like an "counter" bloch wall. Apart from that a repulsion motor generates in the coil an additional repulsing field.
Same effect at adams motor and perhaps Ed Grey.

~o0o~
Different item but interesting:
1. watch
2. See post 2

~o0o~

Yes John you're right. When I use bottle capacitor seems to give me more spark than my MMC. Maybe it's behaviour is different from the other capacitors. Still experimenting.

[soundiceuk]

Wow Duff!

That's a precise set of figures Duff!

I am contemplating finding the $9000 worth of software 'FREE' from the University of California and the University of Barcelona that Don talks about to simulate the device.

I definately think this is the way forward for certain individuals who can use such software.

Should save a number of us wasting money and time trying to find the best combination of components.


What interests me the most is you have the schematic that Don uses. I thought we had reached the conclusion that it had been purposely made incorrect.

Now I'm even more confused.

Please can you shed some light on why the circuit works. I thought the capacitor couldn't work without a ground???

Also thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!

[JohnStone]

Hello, Yes the noisey white crackling exteral spark turns into a nice hiss inside the sparkplug, I can see purple plasma hissing around ceramic core of spark plug, Amps on NST supply drops. The 12V Lowglow NST is also running on reduced voltage threw a PWM. Without reducing the voltage No plasma just Loud erratating white static sparks Bulb will still light but nothing like with the Plasma. New NST should be comming soon. I'll have to borrow a camera and video once I get it.

My neighbor gave me a old lincoln arch welder Looks as the transformer could be a great start on my step down trafo. At least I have some nice 00 output leads....
Randy

You prove that brute forth sparks do not foster smooth operation of the setup.

Imagine a swing. If you decide to push it sometimes completely asynchronously with brute forth you will in some cases increase, decrease or stop completely. In fact I experienced it at my tests.
We will get an harmonic interaction only if we push it synchronously. It does not matter if you push at every cycle or you decide to push every minute 5 cycles. This imagination corresponds to i.e. 40 KHz FB sparks.
But it is essential how we do it or not to do it.
1. It will be very difficult to start it exactly synchronous
2. It will be very dificult to control the duration to exact HF cycle time.
If conditions above are not met we get those loud and iregular sparks.

What you've done is to reduce the brute forth.
1. The HV is being supplied by the FB.
2. The spark does not ignite deliberately. The voltage differnece between FB output and L1 swinging voltage is important. If you override it deliberately you will not be within the operation area required.
3. The spark will ignite when the L1 voltage goes down increasing the voltage difference FB / L1. Somewhere at the most negative ponit the spark ignites first time.
4. The L1 oscillation performs very high voltage swings and so teh difference FB/ L1 gets smaller and smoller and tehre is a time when teh spark stops because of too small voltage difference.
5. Your FB pulse is still alive but can't spark just now.
6. The L1 voltge swing continues unaffected by FB voltage (no spark)
7. The SG is inactive until we get condition 3. again.
8. This loop 3. - 7. cintinues until teh FB pulse stops.
9. The L1 resonant circuit will continue ntil teh FB voltage pulse starts again. continuing teh loop 1. -9.

Understand that conforming my notion Tesla perfected this well tuned HF spark switch.
While further perfecting Tesla reduced the spark time by magnetic quench. The ignition point is the same but the push action will be restricted to an area short after the most departed point.
This conforms to Tseung who states that there is OU if we give STRONG pushes just in a small area after the most departing point. Tesla did it by quenched spark.

Please share more details of your setup.

[marxist]

coax-cable cap

When I use bottle capacitor seems to give me more spark than my MMC. Maybe it's behaviour is different from the other capacitors. Still experimenting.

Hi Guruji,
thanks for publishing the video of your setup
Don smith circuit - YouTube

A while back I also made a few experiments with a flyback transformer and a spark gap. My results were not worth mentioning, however I used coaxial cable (antenna cable) as a capacitor and that worked very well.
In other words: Instead of using a mass manufactured capacitor, I connected the inner wire of the coax-cable as one capacitor plate and the shield (= braid) as the other. The other ends of the cable were left open (= non-connected).
If you have a few meters or feet of such a cable, you can try that. I think it may be worthwhile.

[JohnStone]

@all
....
I was not able to simulate the sparkgap due to the fact that, when in the circuit, the simulation slowed down to 3ps/s. Not having any information on what Don used, it would be very difficult considering gas type, ionization, arc voltage, on/off impedance , etc...
.....

will this spice model be of any help?
or

see here page 71

[Duncan]

some times a clue is enough !

I'm sure most of you remember the couple of PDF s I posted a month or so back with the help of PJK starting with the pendulum and working slowly up to the ¼ wave resonant Tesla system, I certainly cant preach on the subject and I really haven’t got all the answers or else every one on this forum would have a powerful machine running in their garage right now.! Whilst I don’t have all the answers I am prepared to openly share what I do know, I also don’t mind trying to connect the dots even if I am forced to look a little silly in the process. Very shortly after I posted the last PDF I was contacted by a friend who works for a major construction company who also happens to do quite a lot of work off shore, He asked what I'd been up to … It would seem I've managed to get on some sort of blacklist ah well such is life.... anyway quite apart from the many thanks PJK and I received for posting those few PDF s on forum I received many more PM s.
I conclude that there are many more people building and experimenting and progressing these machines anonymously well that’s OK too! As long as there are more working machines the pressure on the Dam wall increases. And of course I was pleased to receive their thanks too!.
Despite the fact that we may not be able to cross all the Ts and dot all the Is I think its fair to say that anyone studying this thread closely could now build a working Don Smith Machine That’s one hell of a mile stone! And in that regard a huge debt is also owed to that phenomenal epic run by the Lithuanian team at over unity.com. next of course comes the nutty little problem of “conversion of Radiant energy” It is clear to see a fair percentage of the folks on this thread are eager to be “at it”
In this PDF I try to get reactive power out of its hiding place, I try and get some sort of historical and practical grip on where it may be hiding, whilst I may not have everything “just so” It is my ambition to drop enough seeds in different trades that some must take root “as the blinkers come off.”
I have shamelessly hacked lumps out of DVDs and posted them (blacklisted Indeed! I might as well get bloody sued as well) I have also pillaged from other threads on this forum I have tried my best to lift the veil on the deception . In places I have linked to very aged parametric video footage amplifying the parametric motor converters suggested by ZZZZ..
I have demonstrated the awesome power of one tiny spectrum of radiant power . Really I just hope you take the time to read through this scrappy effort I hope you enjoy it and that it manages to give you a sleepless thoughtful night or two, however when a penny does drop .. do please post it! If I am to be hung I'd rather for a sheep than a lamb! Here's the PDF
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b2/syc%20c.pdf

[duff]

That's a precise set of figures Duff!

I am contemplating finding the $9000 worth of software 'FREE' from the University of California and the University of Barcelona that Don talks about to simulate the device.

I definately think this is the way forward for certain individuals who can use such software.

Should save a number of us wasting money and time trying to find the best combination of components.


What interests me the most is you have the schematic that Don uses. I thought we had reached the conclusion that it had been purposely made incorrect.

Now I'm even more confused.

Please can you shed some light on why the circuit works. I thought the capacitor couldn't work without a ground???

Also thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand you question.

The capacitor are grounded on the primary side when the spark gap fires.
They are ground on the secondary side a the L2/L3 center-tap.


@all

I updated the previous post to include a little more information.

[duff]

will this spice model be of any help?
or

see here page 71

Thanks John for the document references.

I actually have several spark gap models, but the problem is, the simulation slows down to a processing speed of 2 picoseconds per second.

[JohnStone]

Where is the magic of Smith device?

Pondering on the consequence of dielectric being exposed to high voltage and magentic stress.
We have schematics where the resonant transformer is missing completely.
Given the dielectric performs the magic - what does it mean?

1. The dielectric should be stressed as much as possible: Steaday high voltage after initial charge, pulsed currents, changing voltage. The make of the capacitor might be essential.
2. As we apply a pulse to it -> a voltage wave runs followed by a current wave through the capacitor kicking it into self resonance. Lot of confusion there to Think of nonlinear behaviour giving a differnce in energy beween the stress curve and the relaxing curve. Think of Tseung, and kincked flywheels!
3. Stress at discharge to the load may foster OU as well.
4. Big chunks of capacitors with much dielectric inside seems to be convenient in order to be stressed and to store the OU charge generated.
5. In order to get maximum stress a resonant circuit is very convenient. It generates much more voltage than input. It oscillates at high freqeuncies. It is a high effitiency circuit. I do not believe that a semiconductor circuit can perform with same effeitiency.
The design parameters for the resonant transformer (ratio, length ...) serve for getting highest effitiency and voltage - most severe kicks!
6. High frequency is very convenient if we expect a capacitor to perform OU at every kick.
7. If we ponder how to kick the resonant circuit to it's preferred working parameters the silent spark gap with the pulsed FB seems to be convenient. See my commets regarding the setup from Mr Whip.
@ Mr. whip: Try additional capacitors at output!

OK - I know that this is simplified and many other notions are overseen here. I am convinced that there are additional sources of OU in Don's device adding/multiplying along the circuit chain. I want to give you food for thoughts in order to consider this view as well. We need to consider all facettes of the chrystal.
rgds John