Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[nightwind]

Don has never shown an "open" working device publicly. He refused to open the case of the only so called working device which leads one to be quite skeptical.

You're right, that doesn't help his case. Even TK has the largest part of his device enclosed too. Neither have shown their devices running for any length of time and it would have been so EASY for them to prove with a online webcam or a metered camera setup. I know I would have.

[a.king21]

TK

You're right, that doesn't help his case. Even TK has the largest part of his device enclosed too. Neither have shown their devices running for any length of time and it would have been so EASY for them to prove with a online webcam or a metered camera setup. I know I would have.

TK's device has been tested extensively by the organisation he wanted to do a deal with. The videos we are seeing are only the edits. The organisation even shipped him off to an island well away from the grid. The problem is not if the device works or not. That is established without question. The engineers' question was: does his device somehow abstract electricity from the grid? The answer is NO.
TK backed off after three years because he became suspicious of their motives. He was right. Their boss is Asil Nadir. Google him.
So why should TK set up a webcam? He has nothing to prove.

[Guruji]

Meters

It is questionable if frequency meters (especially digital ones) can be used at all.
The basic L1/L2 frequency will be stable but the sparks produce extreme noise, a mix af any frequency up to GHz. So what frequency to be measured? Google pics for "fft square wave". FFT shows the decomposition of any signal in basic frequencies it is built of. Consider the frequency mix occuring at simple square wave. This mix gets more and more rich as we increase amplitude and decrease duty cycle.

Yes John as you always point out about meters but we have to have a guide somewhere in the circuit. Maybe osciloscope should be the tool but till now I should try to use with what I have.
Thanks for response.

[JohnStone]

Yes John as you always point out about meters but we have to have a guide somewhere in the circuit. Maybe osciloscope should be the tool but till now I should try to use with what I have.
Thanks for response.

Im sorry that you and others suffer on this restriction
Perhaps you can calculate a low pass filter in order to get the base frequency somewhere below 5 MHz only. Use passive components, metalfilm resistors (carbon resistors have inductance by helically lasered surface) and ceramic capacitors. SMD components are superiour. And take care to get the input resistance / capacitance of your meter in the calculation.
Perhaps you decide to deal with the free simulation tool LTspice. Lot's of tutorials out there. It's easy to adjust such a filter by trial and error if you have the basic circuit (R/C or Pi ....). Not to mention the educational effect! Give it a try.

[nightwind]

TK's device has been tested extensively by the organisation he wanted to do a deal with. The videos we are seeing are only the edits. The organisation even shipped him off to an island well away from the grid. The problem is not if the device works or not. That is established without question. The engineers' question was: does his device somehow abstract electricity from the grid? The answer is NO.
TK backed off after three years because he became suspicious of their motives. He was right. Their boss is Asil Nadir. Google him.
So why should TK set up a webcam? He has nothing to prove.

You're right, he does not have to prove anything to you or me. This thread is about how these devices might work and if they do, how to hopefully replicate one. But the first thing to determine is do they actually do what the inventor claims and "run time" is a critical parameter. Has TK ever mentioned how long he has run his device?

I looked up Nadir, I definitely wouldn't due business with him.

[a.king21]

extensive research

I have done extensive resarch into ou and looked at TK especially as his device is oh so Don Smith. I know from a third party that it is reliable, limited only by the components and their tolerance. That's why I'm still looking. I know it's there. Maybe TK uses magneto-restrictive materials - I don't know. Maybe it's a combination of aluminium and copper - I don't know. But it's something hard to find - that I do know, and once we find it the rest will be easy. I am at the moment looking at the 3 plate capacitor. I dislike mysteries.
I'm determined to find the answer.

[T-1000]

I have done extensive resarch into ou and looked at TK especially as his device is oh so Don Smith. I know from a third party that it is reliable, limited only by the components and their tolerance. That's why I'm still looking. I know it's there. Maybe TK uses magneto-restrictive materials - I don't know. Maybe it's a combination of aluminium and copper - I don't know. But it's something hard to find - that I do know, and once we find it the rest will be easy. I am at the moment looking at the 3 plate capacitor. I dislike mysteries.
I'm determined to find the answer.

Too many unknowns about black box and that lead nowhere.

That might help with digging our details about D. Smith device as it was partially in our setup:
Device #1 - Mixed Languages(Uncut).mpg - YouTube
Try to draw diagram on connections from it then compare to D. Smith device. Hopefully You will find similarities in what makes it work..

[Guruji]

Im sorry that you and others suffer on this restriction
Perhaps you can calculate a low pass filter in order to get the base frequency somewhere below 5 MHz only. Use passive components, metalfilm resistors (carbon resistors have inductance by helically lasered surface) and ceramic capacitors. SMD components are superiour. And take care to get the input resistance / capacitance of your meter in the calculation.
Perhaps you decide to deal with the free simulation tool LTspice. Lot's of tutorials out there. It's easy to adjust such a filter by trial and error if you have the basic circuit (R/C or Pi ....). Not to mention the educational effect! Give it a try.

John you're pushing me to buy an oscilloscope. Are those on ebay good that can be hooked to the Laptop? It seems that I should have one. especially for this circuit.

[JohnStone]

John you're pushing me to buy an oscilloscope. Are those on ebay good that can be hooked to the Laptop? It seems that I should have one. especially for this circuit.

It depends:
It is essential to be able to measure GND free. I do not know if the PC based ones have the USB connection galvanically separated. In extreme cases you could shoot your PC.
- The type HPS50 Velleman owns a LCD display and a galvanically separated USB - quite expensive.
- DSO203 is portable, tiny and battery operated. 30 MHz analog but only 72 Msamples digital = 7 MHz - Including signal generator.

For detecting short pulses 100MHz bandwidth seems to be essential.

I am not familiar with current offers because I own several vintage scopes - unfortunately without PC connection but some are battery operated 24V.

But get familiar with LT spice. You can learn alot and predefine values by trial and error before you start building.
rgds John

[Duncan]

Farmhand

thanks for taking the time to read...you are of course are taking me way out of my comfort zone with this question .. but you are aware of that! A bit like quoting the maths of a battery or a capacitor and then saying oh yeh and a conditioned one? What’s the difference? You and I both know there's a big big difference .. the maths of it that’s a different matter ! As for your reactive power standard quote well it doesn't explain how Hectors “rotoverter “could demonstrate well over cop+1 after a slight frequency change to the Inverter, Nor the pressure the USA team came under afterwards to bury the information.
Indeed there's obviously a lot more going on than .. yawn .. real power / apparent power .And when electrical guys start to consider a power grid as a possible tuned system just like a Tesla coil (at some point) a big bridge will have been crossed. because you are right in a zone where Radient power is so overwhelming it has to be delt with. the technology is very exposed

[Guruji]

LT Spice

It depends:
It is essential to be able to measure GND free. I do not know if the PC based ones have the USB connection galvanically separated. In extreme cases you could shoot your PC.
- The type HPS50 Velleman owns a LCD display and a galvanically separated USB - quite expensive.
- DSO203 is portable, tiny and battery operated. 30 MHz analog but only 72 Msamples digital = 7 MHz - Including signal generator.

For detecting short pulses 100MHz bandwidth seems to be essential.

I am not familiar with current offers because I own several vintage scopes - unfortunately without PC connection but some are battery operated 24V.

But get familiar with LT spice. You can learn alot and predefine values by trial and error before you start building.
rgds John

Is there a Bug in that software cause when I tried to download it's telling me that it can harm your computer?

[Farmhand]

thanks for taking the time to read...you are of course are taking me way out of my comfort zone with this question .. but you are aware of that! A bit like quoting the maths of a battery or a capacitor and then saying oh yeh and a conditioned one? What’s the difference? You and I both know there's a big big difference .. the maths of it that’s a different matter ! As for your reactive power standard quote well it doesn't explain how Hectors “rotoverter “could demonstrate well over cop+1 after a slight frequency change to the Inverter, Nor the pressure the USA team came under afterwards to bury the information.
Indeed there's obviously a lot more going on than .. yawn .. real power / apparent power .And when electrical guys start to consider a power grid as a possible tuned system just like a Tesla coil (at some point) a big bridge will have been crossed. because you are right in a zone where Radient power is so overwhelming it has to be delt with. the technology is very exposed

Thanks for the reply, I didn't read the PDF entirely but I will. I agree with you
that synchronous motors are very interesting and need closer study.

I'm not really familiar with the rotoverter,I'll check it out but the way i see it any motor
cannot use all the power given to it's windings, there will always be the
"stored energy" in the magnetic field that is released after the current is cut.
As far as I am aware most motors windings are isolated when this happens
not really sure, in electronics involved in free energy research there is a lot of
different aspects to learn.

My intuition tells me that a normal motor with no way to utilize the energy
from the collapsing magnetic field would probably be about 50% to 70%
efficient. Now if all the energy that is usually wasted every cycle is reused
the cop could be very good, but in my opinion if a motor uses 100 watts but
30% is usually dissipated then if that 30% is instead reused, ignoring losses
the motor would be almost unity. But all that means is that the majority of
the losses are reused repeatedly, even if that 30% is reused 1000 times the
COP is not improved further than it was after the first reuse.

In the book by Thomas Commerford Martin I linked there is a system Tesla
uses that is explained where he uses the actual rotor as a capacitor to take
up the current rather than let it dissipate, he does that by insulating the
laminations from each other to form a capacitor and connecting the rotor
windings to it. There is also another way where he makes a hollow section in
the rotor to hold an actual capacitor inside the rotor. This he done to
induction motors to utilize the currents in the rotor better and to improve
efficiency while reducing heat.

I'll try to find the text and section, it's very interesting.

We must be careful not to calculate cop as a comparison of previous
performance, but as a function of input power to output power.

Maybe it's just me but I don't like the way the term radiant energy is used,
all energy is radiated at some time, all energy arriving to Earth is radiated from
somewhere else, I think any energy that would be pulled into a motor or other
device would be more like gravitic energy, as in the energy gravitated to the
motor, radiant energy would radiate away from the motor. Collecting radiant
energy to me would mean intercepting already radiated energy from
somewhere else which is traveling in straight lines and is already there.

Gravity I think is the opposite of radiation, if energy is drawn in it is not really
radiated it is more gravitated, gravity is not limited to planets, everything has
gravity I think. I think this is one of the things that is trying to be hidden.
Our ability to manipulate gravity on any scale. If we can cause excessive
radiation then I think excessive gravity is also a real possibility.

I don't understand how energy entering a device could be termed "radiant"
energy unless it was just hitting the device at random after being radiated
from elsewhere. ie. A Tesla coil radiating energy that is captured by a plate
"P" arrangement. The plate is just sitting there being hit by radiant energy.
I don't see a motor as a radiant energy collector.

I'll try to find that rotor capacitor section in that book, when i find it I'll post
the page and chapter.

Cheers

OK found it already easy, Chapter XXI (21) page 101 of the PDF it starts but right at the end of p101 start of p102 is the juicy part.

PDF link.
http://ia700302.us.archive.org/16/it...00martiala.pdf

Is this Tesla setup basically a "rotoverter" ? Now I'll find out what a rotoverter
does. As far as I knew a rotoverter was just a motor.

The next section is good too it is about putting a condenser in one of the field circuits.


..

[T-1000]

My intuition tells me that a normal motor with no way to utilize the energy
from the collapsing magnetic field would probably be about 50% to 70%
efficient. Now if all the energy that is usually wasted every cycle is reused
the cop could be very good, but in my opinion if a motor uses 100 watts but
30% is usually dissipated then if that 30% is instead reused, ignoring losses
the motor would be almost unity. But all that means is that the majority of
the losses are reused repeatedly, even if that 30% is reused 1000 times the
COP is not improved further than it was after the first reuse.

People need to learn recycle power used in inductors first. the BEMF what was blamed for burning circuits needs to be recycled straight into recharge and at some point - into draw of energy from external source, such earth over capacitor..

The simplest circuit you can try with: Bedini SSG, but after diode which's comming from inductor to capacitor/charge battery, connect to capacitor what got 1 plate earth grounded and entire circuit -is not grounded-

The neon small bulb there shows about presence of energy right in place when you lit it from BEMF(or reactive power in other words) just on single wire when your inductor is running in resonance.

[dragon]

"Indeed there's obviously a lot more going on than .. yawn .. real power / apparent power "

Indeed there is - I was simply pointing to this as an example of what occurs, not necessarily the mechanism, although similar. Obviously it needs to be said slowly... lets say it together... "reflection" . When 2 coils are loosely coupled they will exchange their magnetic fields back and forth (reflection -recycling). Microphone in a speaker analogy - feedback. This occurs much easier when the secondary is loaded - input pushes the load and the load pushes back - you push the environment and it pushes back. Is there only one type or form of resonance? With all the resonant coils being built it would seem there should be OU devices everywhere right? - maybe your looking at the wrong resonance? Why are there so many references to frequencies in the 20 to 100khz range? Could there be many different forms of resonance?... resonance occurs when energy is easily transferred between 2 or more storage devices. Maybe it's not so much in how to tune but what your tuning for.... Question everything and the answer will present itself...

[kajunkreations]

resonance

"Indeed there's obviously a lot more going on than .. yawn .. real power / apparent power "

Indeed there is - I was simply pointing to this as an example of what occurs, not necessarily the mechanism, although similar. Obviously it needs to be said slowly... lets say it together... "reflection" . When 2 coils are loosely coupled they will exchange their magnetic fields back and forth (reflection -recycling). Microphone in a speaker analogy - feedback. This occurs much easier when the secondary is loaded - input pushes the load and the load pushes back - you push the environment and it pushes back. Is there only one type or form of resonance? With all the resonant coils being built it would seem there should be OU devices everywhere right? - maybe your looking at the wrong resonance? Why are there so many references to frequencies in the 20 to 100khz range? Could there be many different forms of resonance?... resonance occurs when energy is easily transferred between 2 or more storage devices. Maybe it's not so much in how to tune but what your tuning for.... Question everything and the answer will present itself...

What to tune for!!!!! That is the question, Ive been in the audio industry for quite a few years, I've built some of the best sounding cars on earth, and do you know what the # one enemy of guys that do what I do, it is RESONANCE, there are many different forms of resonance. Resonance can cancel an audible frequency or it can amplify it. It can also cause a phase shift so what do you think Don was doing?
Its crazy, all my career I've been trying avoid resonance, now I'm trying to achieve it!