Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[ricards]

Hi ricards,

I know I am here on this forum to learn, however, my understanding is that DS used a 1/4 wave ration when pulsing his L2. As you have pointed out previously, it is also possible to utilise greater ratios. At 4:1 that would indicate a Resonance at a minimum of 120Khz. Am I wrong to think this? It is this significance where the increases in energy are supposd to eminate. I take it that he was using a combination of HV HF Capacitive coupling and capture of the negative going radiant spike. If this is so, then this is where his "Grail" is to be found.

Regards

Dwane

maybe.. I don't really know I haven't tried.
120khz is a harmonic freq of 30khz.. so maybe the energy will increase?..
based on experience I would say No.. simply because It doesn't make sense to me..
but who knows.. maybe you're right.. that is why we do the experiments to actually find out..

on the subject of capacitive coupling though.. I've done experiment where in I could power loads in between capacitor.
High voltage version was through an antenna and a ground.. but really I don't see how the energy would increase.. you're just pushing and pulling the electrons to cause AC..

[ricards]

Did you try different types of bulbs? The impedance of the load greatly effects your output.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7J04Tr80A[/VIDEO]

As I remember no.. I tried a resistor maybe..
I will redo the experiment to try.

but one thing is odd.. I also remember the number 14 AWG is warm.. in which it shouldn't have any problem conducting 2-4 amperes..

[med.3012]

I take it that he was using a combination of HV HF Capacitive coupling and capture of the negative going radiant spike. If this is so, then this is where his "Grail" is to be found.

Hi Dwane ,



this is my opinion also , DS secret is inside the capacitive coupling , he used it in combination with inductive coupling, but this allow him to take either the positive or negative spike .


regards

[ilandtan]

without designing the TANK 2 (secondary) to resonate with my source and TANK 1 (primary) my source was using 12v at 4 amps, output is NOT even lighting the 50 watt bulb.
by designing it to resonate my source was using 12v at 2 amps and was able to light the bulb at 30-60% (just visual observation).
the difference was huge, not only I was able to lower my amp draw.. I was also able to light up a bulb dimly.

Did you try different types of bulbs? The impedance of the load greatly effects your output.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7J04Tr80A[/VIDEO]

[Dwane]

Hi dwane,

that is why you will design your L2 and its capacitor to resonate at 30khz.

..............

w

Hi ricards,

I know I am here on this forum to learn, however, my understanding is that DS used a 1/4 wave ration when pulsing his L2. As you have pointed out previously, it is also possible to utilise greater ratios. At 4:1 that would indicate a Resonance at a minimum of 120Khz. Am I wrong to think this? It is this significance where the increases in energy are supposd to eminate. I take it that he was using a combination of HV HF Capacitive coupling and capture of the negative going radiant spike. If this is so, then this is where his "Grail" is to be found.

Regards

Dwane

[ricards]

Hi ricards,

I do not think your argument can be validated here with the figures you are using. (1) The exciter pulse is 30Khz not the L2 coil pulse frequency; (2) the L2 coil resonant pulse is that configuration of HV HF resonance - more than one individual sine wave - ready to do continuous work. When rectified for his "Ozone" the outputs DS calculates are greater than the 30khz you suggest. The real question has to be What Frequency was L2 resonating at.

I await your correction of my counter argument!

Regards

Dwane

Hi dwane,

that is why you will design your L2 and its capacitor to resonate at 30khz.
I have tried to follow Don smith designer's build guide as is I got nothing.. but when I tweak a little.. and applied known and accepted calculations, I was able to have an output.
let me give you a figure of difference in output..
without designing the TANK 2 (secondary) to resonate with my source and TANK 1 (primary) my source was using 12v at 4 amps, output is NOT even lighting the 50 watt bulb.
by designing it to resonate my source was using 12v at 2 amps and was able to light the bulb at 30-60% (just visual observation).
the difference was huge, not only I was able to lower my amp draw.. I was also able to light up a bulb dimly.

when I increase the voltage of my source the amp draw does not increase that much (approximately 0.1 amp per doubling of voltage)

I just calculated the length of the coil, coil it up to an inductance that will match a standard value capacitor at my desired frequency, and have an adjustable frequency oscillator to find that resonant point (since I calculated it I know what frequency range to go).. I use pulsed DC as my source.

[Dwane]

.........................
......................
12-48v pulse on a tank circuit with a cap of 6.8 uf is very little..
but don smith table top has
2 2uF 4kv caps if only 2kv is being used that is 4 Joules of energy per discharge of the cap.. at 30khz... how much energy?..

Hi ricards,

I do not think your argument can be validated here with the figures you are using. (1) The exciter pulse is 30Khz not the L2 coil pulse frequency; (2) the L2 coil resonant pulse is that configuration of HV HF resonance - more than one individual sine wave - ready to do continuous work. When rectified for his "Ozone" the outputs DS calculates are greater than the 30khz you suggest. The real question has to be What Frequency was L2 resonating at.

I await your correction of my counter argument!

Regards

Dwane

[ilandtan]

If you just load the secondary with any load, a current will flow in its coils and form a magnetic field that will resist the magnetic field of the primary.. (lenz law)
It will have different frequency depending on your load.

my theory is you should calculate your load as well to still match the resonant frequency of the primary and your source, or like don smith table top as I see it.. only benefit from the cyclic exchange of large energy activity. (bottom part of the center tapped coil.

Has anybody ever considered any of DS devices that wasn't using resonant coils, like plasma bisected by plates or the ones directly connected to the NST. Is that all BS?

[ricards]

I've often wondered why you can't take a huge transformer with a large inductance, and place a resonant tank circuit capacitor for 60 Hz and pulse it, and take the output on the secondary winding of the transformer isn't that what you are saying?
...

If you just load the secondary with any load, a current will flow in its coils and form a magnetic field that will resist the magnetic field of the primary.. (lenz law)
It will have different frequency depending on your load.

my theory is you should calculate your load as well to still match the resonant frequency of the primary and your source, or like don smith table top as I see it.. only benefit from the cyclic exchange of large energy activity. (bottom part of the center tapped coil.

[ilandtan]

the point is this.. If energy can neither be created or destroyed.. how come we believe our loads consume energy?.. why not just trap that energy into some loop and have our loads in between to be powered many times while it slowly decays.. or spend a little to keep it alive..

by the way I see don smith table top to be doing the same, but instead of powering loads.. slowly leaking out the energy through diodes and the bottom half of the secondary coil.

I've often wondered why you can't take a huge transformer with a large inductance, and place a resonant tank circuit capacitor for 60 Hz and pulse it, and take the output on the secondary winding of the transformer isn't that what you are saying?

Another idea is that we don't try to measure the magnetic environment, maybe that is the key to the whole problem. Keep a guass meter as we configure circuits and see if there is a configuration which saturates the magnetic field. I saw only one video that showed this to be an artifact of their circuit, indecently he measured input and output as over-unity.
It's what I expected would happen when you created a working Smith circuit.

[dragon]

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

If you put a load between the two tanks of balanced water, pressurize one side, the water will flow through the load to fill the opposite tank. Remove the pressure and the tanks returns to balance through the load.

If we had a watt meter, per say, on the input pressure to move the water to the other side and a watt meter on the load that measured all activity through the load we would measure the input as 1/2 of the total energy moved through the load. No water was lost during the exchange, all was returned to it's natural state of balance.

A capacitor has all the energy it can hold regardless of its state of charge. You can rearrange the electrons to represent a charge and do work with the potential difference until balance between the plates is restored.

Likewise, wire contains all the energy we need to power our circuits - all that is lacking in either case is an economical way to rearrange electrons, that is, making one side more positive than the other. Always seeking balance...

Energy is everywhere, in a balanced state. We are the only ones that want it to be unbalanced. Nature resists our attempts... so we need to find a way to coax nature into assisting with the process.

[ricards]

Hi Ricards,

This is incorrect.


It is 8.48V, not 6. Remember?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post306394

Regards,

bi

yup Bistander,

what I posted was actual results from experiments. I lost half of that energy just by increasing the capacitance of capacitor in the circuit. where did it go?.. best bet is EM wave (not heat.) as when I coil it Up I can have magnetism to increase that 6v to around 7.2v if I remember correctly.. and this is just buy pulsing the circuit using its own energy.

[ricards]

Ricards, Let me thank you for putting your time and effort to achieving this understanding. I comprehend why you want to maintain higher potentials that the Slayer can't provide.

Let me say how much I hate the forum format in the exchange of ideas. You can't see that my eyes glazed over after the first paragraph. I'm sorry that this maybe painful, and if you don't want to answer my questions, I don't blame you. I only know how to solve problems the old fashion way, to break them in chunks, until I get the full picture.

If I understand your objective was simply to see if capacitor energy could be transferred directly from one capacitor to another. I am not sure why there was a contention at the 1/2 the voltage. I find it helpful to view capacitor capacity as a quantity of water.

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

Am I understanding this wrong?

haha nothing to say sorry.. when I read books, I just get them to a PDF.. run it through a electronic reader, and sleep away ..
most people think I'm listening to some kind of music.

How can you tell if a capacitor is full?.. of course by comparing its voltage to the source right?..
but how can you tell if its half full?.. the reality is you can charge capacitor at any voltage until it broke down.. so when is it full and when is it half full?
my understanding is once a voltage is measured Its full.. as voltage is analogous to pressure.. pressure is ambient until its full.

the purpose of that experiment was to see if electrical energy was being transformed to other forms of energy e.g heat, mechanical.. etc. and the total energy was the same. My impression to it was No.. forgot to mention that I run a motor generator in that arrangement as well, a transformer and a pulsing circuit.. and was able to get the capacitor charged up even more. while powering a load. my calculated work in Joules vs Initial Energy in Joules was over 120% and still have energy in the caps.. can you now generate more energy?.. I've tried.. with this setup.. answer is no. simply because of the arrangement itself is not designed to do that...
that project was a whole different discussion.

you got that right.. on the water quantity analogy.. now here is the trick.. If you would now calculate the energy of those 2 capacitor using the (1/2 CV^2) you will notice you already lost half of your energy. to where?.. best bet is EM radiation. but can anyone really prove that?..

the point is this.. If energy can neither be created or destroyed.. how come we believe our loads consume energy?.. why not just trap that energy into some loop and have our loads in between to be powered many times while it slowly decays.. or spend a little to keep it alive..

by the way I see don smith table top to be doing the same, but instead of powering loads.. slowly leaking out the energy through diodes and the bottom half of the secondary coil.

[bistander]

Capacitor energy

...
I made Small Experiments to verify my theory..
I charged a cap, run it through a load, a wire, a coil, a resistor, into my hand.. etc.. to charge another capacitor.
the result was the same.. the amount of energy (in volts) in the capacitors after a while.. was the same in all scenario.
12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..
If you double the volume the pressure is halved..
but the energy of (2) 6v 40mF is half the energy of 12v 40mF.. (what trickery is this).. where did 1/2 of the energy go?.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??.. maybe the conservation of energy does not apply (speculation)..

...

If you can see the flaw in it. tell me.

Hi Ricards,

This is incorrect.

12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..

It is 8.48V, not 6. Remember?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post306394

Regards,

bi

[ilandtan]

I made Small Experiments to verify my theory..
I charged a cap, run it through a load, a wire, a coil, a resistor, into my hand.. etc.. to charge another capacitor.
the result was the same.. the amount of energy (in volts) in the capacitors after a while.. was the same in all scenario.
12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..
If you double the volume the pressure is halved..
but the energy of (2) 6v 40mF is half the energy of 12v 40mF.. (what trickery is this).. where did 1/2 of the energy go?.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??.. maybe the conservation of energy does not apply (speculation)..


If you can see the flaw in it. tell me.

Ricards, Let me thank you for putting your time and effort to achieving this understanding. I comprehend why you want to maintain higher potentials that the Slayer can't provide.

Let me say how much I hate the forum format in the exchange of ideas. You can't see that my eyes glazed over after the first paragraph. I'm sorry that this maybe painful, and if you don't want to answer my questions, I don't blame you. I only know how to solve problems the old fashion way, to break them in chunks, until I get the full picture.

If I understand your objective was simply to see if capacitor energy could be transferred directly from one capacitor to another. I am not sure why there was a contention at the 1/2 the voltage. I find it helpful to view capacitor capacity as a quantity of water.

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

Am I understanding this wrong?