Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[janost]

I'm admiered by your work, Kurt

But sometimes I just don't get your strange coils?

Why not just put 2 groundpoints into the soil and oscillate the ground with 500v and then put a 3rd point in the ground and run it to a tuned coil with resonance?

It is like when you are standing on the beach with waves hiting you.
Hard to stand still.

Standing waves in the ground

When you have the ground oscillating it isnt hard to get the energy out.
It is the Kapanadze way and it works.

It bet you dont even have any formulas that describe how your coils work?

[Dave45]

Now that you have a benchmark try removing the separated halves, see how much it effects the system.

[ewizard]

mr. clean, Thanks for all the work you do. I'd like to ask a couple questions not to be critical but to help. I'm not actually sure how your circuit is built so I may be totally wrong in making some assumptions and might even be dumb to even be asking this. I just have two things that came to mind in watching your first video. First is that LED's seem to me to be a special sort of 'load'. If you can duplicate what you have done their with some very low power flashlight type filament bulbs then I would be more excited about your results.

My first thought with the small LED's is that they will of course get brighter if you put a low resistance across them since that 1 Ohm resistor will pull a lot more current or voltage into that part of the circuit if the circuit can provide it. LED's by their self are very low current devices. Not sure if that even makes sense for what you are doing there but it just seemed to me like it was a logical result when putting a low Ohm resistor across it as I assume that's HF AC coming in and the LED is a diode that rectifies that AC. I wish tests for loads and output could be done with something other than LED's people commonly use. They are a special type of load IMO just like flourescent bulbs can be lit just being close to HF AC -- it's showing power but a special kind.

Second concern is that you are seeing 30-35 volts AC output at about the same current as input at 12 volts DC. But the AC output actual power is not simply AC volts times Amps. DC input of course is simply DC volts times amps = power in watts but looking at your scope the AC output is narrow spikes and while I'm not able to quickly say it's same or lower than your input power I think it would be good to look at some calculations on the real power output you are seeing. Without doing some digging that's over my head but it's just a feeling that that actual power out is not as much as it might appear at first.
There is nothing more I'd like to see than your success in finding the 'golden egg' so please take these questions as my request to show me where I am wrong. And I do hope I'm wrong or simply not understanding some aspects of this.

[janost]

Yes, LEDs are a bad load. You can make them light up from a wire antenna with nothng else.

And yes again.
AC load or amps are 1.4times less as its RMS.
And its only good on a sinewave and without a scope only at 50Hz.

What you could do is put it trough a resistor and mesure the voltagedrop.

[T-1000]

39C Don Smith Device Project: Bitoroid HV Resonant Drive Transformer Tune and Testing - YouTube

more to come with the Smith board as well....

So Thane's idea was brilliant after all!


Just path between two secondaries must be much shorter than path between each secondary and primary so magnetic flux path will be looped between two secondaries mostly and the primary will be catalyst of process

P.S> Primary-secondary coupling must be loose and secondary-secondary coupling should be very good.

[janost]

So Thane's idea was brilliant after all!


Just path between two secondaries must be much shorter than path between each secondary and primary so magnetic flux path will be looped between two secondaries mostly and the primary will be catalyst of process

P.S> Primary-secondary coupling must be loose and secondary-secondary coupling should be very good.

What is this?
Dont you learn english at school?
You cant even explain in simple english what you mean?

If you write in an english forum you have to write in english.

[mr.clean]

What is this?
Dont you learn english at school?
You cant even explain in simple english what you mean?

If you write in an english forum you have to write in english.

I think T1000 was clear, and i believe he is Russian..?

anyway, that picture is of the inventor's drawing of how and why the BiToroid works like it does

[mr.clean]

So Thane's idea was brilliant after all!


Just path between two secondaries must be much shorter than path between each secondary and primary so magnetic flux path will be looped between two secondaries mostly and the primary will be catalyst of process

P.S> Primary-secondary coupling must be loose and secondary-secondary coupling should be very good.

Good point, and makes sense. Yeah i think Thane was right

now to work out the correct number of turns, as i arbitrarily just put 200 turns on each secondary, maybe more or less is better?
And gauge of wire and core size needs to be figured out.

Thane did say how it works best with low impedance primary and high impedance secondaries, similar to his motor/gen.

[Dave45]

Boy the naysayers come out of the woodwork dont they, give him a chance to tune it.

Is there any particular winding directions on the secondary's.

[mr.clean]

I'm admiered by your work, Kurt

But sometimes I just don't get your strange coils?
...
It bet you dont even have any formulas that describe how your coils work?

ok,... thanks...i guess?

idk if you are incinuating that i am guessing at values and blindly just hooking up wires,
but i have a very good understanding of what is happening in the devices i am working on.

Or do you mean resonance factors like L and C to go with the F?
aside from that its pretty easy, so just not sure what you mean by "how my coils work"
what are your thoughts on "how they work"? just curious

[mr.clean]

mr. clean, Thanks for all the work you do. I'd like to ask a couple questions not to be critical but to help. I'm not actually sure how your circuit is built so I may be totally wrong in making some assumptions and might even be dumb to even be asking this. I just have two things that came to mind in watching your first video. First is that LED's seem to me to be a special sort of 'load'. If you can duplicate what you have done their with some very low power flashlight type filament bulbs then I would be more excited about your results.

My first thought with the small LED's is that they will of course get brighter if you put a low resistance across them since that 1 Ohm resistor will pull a lot more current or voltage into that part of the circuit if the circuit can provide it. LED's by their self are very low current devices. Not sure if that even makes sense for what you are doing there but it just seemed to me like it was a logical result when putting a low Ohm resistor across it as I assume that's HF AC coming in and the LED is a diode that rectifies that AC. I wish tests for loads and output could be done with something other than LED's people commonly use. They are a special type of load IMO just like flourescent bulbs can be lit just being close to HF AC -- it's showing power but a special kind.

Second concern is that you are seeing 30-35 volts AC output at about the same current as input at 12 volts DC. But the AC output actual power is not simply AC volts times Amps. DC input of course is simply DC volts times amps = power in watts but looking at your scope the AC output is narrow spikes and while I'm not able to quickly say it's same or lower than your input power I think it would be good to look at some calculations on the real power output you are seeing. Without doing some digging that's over my head but it's just a feeling that that actual power out is not as much as it might appear at first.
There is nothing more I'd like to see than your success in finding the 'golden egg' so please take these questions as my request to show me where I am wrong. And I do hope I'm wrong or simply not understanding some aspects of this.

you are correct that LEDs will run almost too efficiently, they will light from small input, sure...

but i guarantee they will not light FULLY without enough power going to them.
The bottom line is that they do have a 3 watt rating at 12v, not 20 mA 3v...

so 4 bulbs in parallel will have a 12 watt demand to light fully.

anyway i will find some suitable filament bulbs, but i need to work out turns on L1 and L2s, new LC values and driver freq, as well as some ideas i have

[mr.clean]

Boy the naysayers come out of the woodwork dont they, give him a chance to tune it.

Is there any particular winding directions on the secondary's.

Yeah
all coils are wound the same direction, except the primary was wrapped from top down, finish layer, and start again from top down etc..

[Farmhand]

Hi mrclean, I don't understand you're reasoning, If you think you have OU why
not concentrate on showing the measurements, present the readings and scope
shots, in the video and ask for opinions on if it is OU or not and why it is or
isn't.

You see OU in everything but it isn't there, you obviously don't understand
how to determine power.

If you want to determine the output power when it is pulsed DC or AC without
messing with phase angles and stuff then just rectify and smooth the DC
output then run a load from that and measure the power, it's very simple.
When you look at the trace for the output it must be a flat line smooth DC to
use a simple volts x amps calculation for power.

Not only that but the input power needs to be determined from the battery if
using one or if powering from the wall outlet using a kilo Watt meter at the wall outlet
to show the proper input power. Thane did not do that, he measured the
input power between a supply transformer and the BiTT, completely
disregarding the power dissipated by the supply transformer one of which he
burned out. Considering his measured output power was so low, the power
dissipated in the supply transformer (enough to burn one out) would have
been many times his measured output so energy taken from the wall is the
real input. If he burned out a supply transformer while showing such a small
output power level the BiTT was way under unity.

Thane used tricks to wow people, he was thrown out of the University when
they realized what he was claiming/doing. Basically he's full of it. He used the
same trick for the "regenerative acceleration" the actual input energy is a lot
more than the actual output energy. With the "regenerative acceleration"
demo's it is obvious but with the BiTT demo's it is not obvious.

Cheers.

[mr.clean]

hehe, just checked, and the BiToroid seems to light filament bulbs....

coming soon

[mr.clean]

Hi mrclean, I don't understand you're reasoning, If you think you have OU why
not concentrate on showing the measurements, present the readings and scope
shots, in the video and ask for opinions on if it is OU or not and why it is or
isn't.

You see OU in everything but it isn't there, you obviously don't understand
how to determine power.

If you want to determine the output power when it is pulsed DC or AC without
messing with phase angles and stuff then just rectify and smooth the DC
output then run a load from that and measure the power, it's very simple.
When you look at the trace for the output it must be a flat line smooth DC to
use a simple volts x amps calculation for power.

Not only that but the input power needs to be determined from the battery if
using one or if powering from the wall outlet using a kilo Watt meter at the wall outlet
to show the proper input power. Thane did not do that, he measured the
input power between a supply transformer and the BiTT, completely
disregarding the power dissipated by the supply transformer one of which he
burned out. Considering his measured output power was so low, the power
dissipated in the supply transformer (enough to burn one out) would have
been many times his measured output so energy taken from the wall is the
real input. If he burned out a supply transformer while showing such a small
output power level the BiTT was way under unity.

Thane used tricks to wow people, he was thrown out of the University when
they realized what he was claiming/doing. Basically he's full of it. He used the
same trick for the "regenerative acceleration" the actual input energy is a lot
more than the actual output energy. With the "regenerative acceleration"
demo's it is obvious but with the BiTT demo's it is not obvious.

Cheers.

Well first off, all you see is a straight line if you look at DC on Scope, so no help there, and in my last vids, i am putting all power thru fwbr, measuring DC volts after fwbr, and analog DC ammeter is connected after fwbr.

all measurements were performed under load. so where were u?

(and dont give me any HF excuses, there is no interference here making my input "look" lower, and my output "look" higher all at same time )

it sounds like you have a general dislike for Heins, idk about his personal life, but if he is not legit, why is he developping his design and getting professional interest?

if you look thru my early vids,
[url=http://m.youtube.com/?reload=4&rdm=mcy2862nk#/watch?v=7PGOGH12N6E[/url]
i have replicated his peripeteia motor, and it does what its supposed to. at max rpm, with the HV coil engaged, there was a boost of rpm, and a reduction on supply current simultaneously.
only problem is if you run your motor off of variac at half power, instead of DC and PWM, things get warm. AC motors seem to like their full voltage rating.

BUT a good friend and electrical engineer built Thane's motor using DC and PWM and was able to get a runaway effect, while confirming a decrease in input current at fixed voltage.
So all i can say is try harder. i would have vid of it, but the stator came in contact with the rotor at about 4000rpm.... that was that LOL
No big deal, just re-build it. maybe he has

im trying to exhaust the methods of measurement (to find out for myself too)

AND btw....
i dont know what to think when i put all thru FWBR, and measure after fwbr, and run the load...after fwbr. measuring 6 watts input while seeing fully lit 12 watts of bulbs and the DC numbers to go along with it without any particular anomalies....

....then someone says.... you gotta measure the DC ... i kinda have to nod and smile after that having a load smoothes reading like a capacitor. open coils read 611v... that would be the "phantom " reading

39D Don Smith Device Project: BiToroid Resonant Driver, More Measurements - YouTube

And why did the tuning LEDs get brighter on secondary when other secondary went on load? it shouldve shared the power and gotten dimmer... according to the known laws
is there a problem with that "reasoning"?