Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[janost]

The thing is that I'm only seeing 2 places to pull the energy out of the resonance.

Either in beteween the capacitor and secondary, where the current is sloshing back and forth.

Or from the primary, where it's returned.

This is tricky.

[ewizard]

Since I'm still waiting on parts to try mr. cleans original interesting circuit with the bi-toroids I decided to play a bit with the big toroids I got (same exact one as mr. cleans). That is a scope shot of the of a small microwave oven fan coil hooked up to the scope and it's sitting in the middle of the big toroid which I wound in Caduceus fashion with a 1/4 overlap using Litz wire. It was ringing fairly loud at 2677.1 Hz. By 1/4 overlap I mean I wound it all the way around the toroid plus an additional 90 degrees.

As I said earlier that I'd share what worked for me to split one of these toroids once accomplished. I didn't do the cleanest job but after doing some light scoring with a band saw I found a thin blade for an angle grinder (like welders often use) and was trying to score more on the inside of the toroid. I had barely gotten started when it broke in half - fortunately it didn't break more when it landed on the shop floor as it just caught a patch of carpet. An angle grinder with a good thin blade could easily cut all the way through this fairly fast being like a huge dremel. It's probably the fastest way to cut ferrite the average person can do.

[Farmhand]

Hi Ewizard, Those thin cutoff discs are very good, I use them regularly. But
because they are so thin there is an increased chance of the disc fracturing
and flying apart, which is extremely dangerous, I recommend wearing a thick
jacket to protect the chest and a full face shield like a welders mask,
somehow protecting your neck area is also a good idea. Safety aside they are
very good and will in fact cut right through many things, one tip to cutting
softer metals is to use some bees wax on the cutting edge of the disc by just
dipping the running disc into a block of wax, this prevents the build up of
material in the cutting edge of the disc, with materials like aluminium that is a
big problem because it make the machine jump and buck and the cut is not so
smooth. With harder metals they self clean.

One of those could cut a toroid very neatly, also if you cut slow and cool the
cut there is less chance of thermal breakage due to eneven expansion in a
solid brittle material.

I can't stress how dangerous they are though, when a disc shatters small and large
pieces can fly off and penetrate the body, this is even true for the regular
stream of fine particles flung off when in normal use. In industry I have
shattered several larger discs and were it not for the leather welding jacket
and face neck protection I would have been seriously injured.

Please take steps to protect your face neck and chest area when using them.
I give them similar respect that I give a chainsaw. If you calculate the outer
edge of the disc velocity it is easy to see how parts of a disc can become
deadly projectiles. My tip is hold the machine very firmly and brace your body
so as to restrict the ability of the machine to kick and move you, always cut with the
rotation of the disc pulling the machine away, never with the rotation pushing
the machine toward you. You are probably aware of these things, but I
thought I would say anyway. For cutting softer metal like aluminium there are
actually toothed discs like circular saw blades which are even more dangerous
but don't shatter into pieces they just cut 4mm sections from fingers and
stuff I personally seen two people remove entire knuckles from fingers and the
fingers were sewn back on short. a plastic face shield or leather means little
to them on contact.

Safety first. Happy experimenting

Cheers

[ewizard]

Yes those are good tips Farmhand. I've got 3 of those angle grinders and am familiar with using them. The one I use most has a guard on it that should prevent anything from hitting the user if held correctly but I always wear glasses using them and depending on the job I've got a welders leather coat and gloves. At around 15,000 RPM they indeed can be dangerous.

[Dave45]

I think we had better give Mr. Hendershot a great big Thank You


Permanent Magnet Motor V-gate Re-gauging from Roobert33 - YouTube
This is it my brother's and sister's Hendershot really did it.

[mr.clean]

this is some crutial info on building HV/HF stuff, from OldScientist on youtube

what startled me was the PICO farad adjustment, changing everything...

Tuning standard and Bifilar Tank circuit - YouTube

its an older vid, but i think its always good, and OldScientist has dedicated much time to Tesla's work, with Longitudinal, bifiliar pancake coils, etc..

[gyula]

The thing is that I'm only seeing 2 places to pull the energy out of the resonance.

Either in beteween the capacitor and secondary, where the current is sloshing back and forth.

Or from the primary, where it's returned.

This is tricky.

Yes, besides the points you mention as the pulling possibilities, here is a circuit from Hector's rotoverter principle, done on a 3 phase motor but the method is valid for any resonant tank circuit in which you manage to maintain oscillation with a minimum (relatively small) input power:
Rotoverter: RV Resonance Recovery Test Circuit - Half Diode Plug Across Run Cap | MERLib.org
Notice in the figure the value of (C1+C2) equals (or smaller than) the value of 0.618*C1. And (C1+C2+C3) resonates with L in a tank circuit.


Gyula

[ewizard]

this is some crutial info on building HV/HF stuff, from OldScientist on youtube

what startled me was the PICO farad adjustment, changing everything...

Tuning standard and Bifilar Tank circuit - YouTube

its an older vid, but i think its always good, and OldScientist has dedicated much time to Tesla's work, with Longitudinal, bifiliar pancake coils, etc..

Yep I suspect the 'magic' point in a circuit like this may be a very narrow band and can be effected by even little things like joining wire lengths, stray capacitance between wires on your bench, and the position of everything in the circuit. Fine tuning caps and inductors can be a big help here. I've got some tuning caps like OldScientist shows in that vid - those type as well as the old screw tunable mica caps can likely be a big help in a circuit like this.

I finally got the couple other parts I needed to give this a try. I'm trying to find the post where it covers the number of turns on the toroids but I seem to be finding two different values. One is in a pic that shows 80 turns on the primary I believe and the other shows 20 turns. Any clarification on this please?

[janost]

Yes, besides the points you mention as the pulling possibilities, here is a circuit from Hector's rotoverter principle, done on a 3 phase motor but the method is valid for any resonant tank circuit in which you manage to maintain oscillation with a minimum (relatively small) input power:
Rotoverter: RV Resonance Recovery Test Circuit - Half Diode Plug Across Run Cap | MERLib.org
Notice in the figure the value of (C1+C2) equals (or smaller than) the value of 0.618*C1. And (C1+C2+C3) resonates with L in a tank circuit.


Gyula

Very interesting reading.

Seem I didnt have perfect resonance in my 1:10 transformer and a 330nF cap.
So I tried it with my ignitioncoil and a 150nF cap on the secondary and I know that combo is resonant.
What a hit

With 12v in from a wallwart and no cap on the secondary it draws 3.89A from the wallwart and as it is only 1.5A it bogged down to 8.2v

Now in resonance with a 150nF cap on the secondary it only draws 1.38A and a steady 12.5v into the coil.

The impendance of the primary went up from 2.98ohms to 9.05ohms
That is a COP 3 improvment in power.

And the oscillations in the secondary is 730VAC in resonance.

It lights CFLs but I wont use it for that.

[mr.clean]

Yep I suspect the 'magic' point in a circuit like this may be a very narrow band and can be effected by even little things like joining wire lengths, stray capacitance between wires on your bench, and the position of everything in the circuit. Fine tuning caps and inductors can be a big help here. I've got some tuning caps like OldScientist shows in that vid - those type as well as the old screw tunable mica caps can likely be a big help in a circuit like this.

I finally got the couple other parts I needed to give this a try. I'm trying to find the post where it covers the number of turns on the toroids but I seem to be finding two different values. One is in a pic that shows 80 turns on the primary I believe and the other shows 20 turns. Any clarification on this please?

hi E, yes good point with HF and tuning the Smith, adjustable cap, then why not adjustable freq and possibly a movable tap to connect the coil at different points (radio tuning) ?

i think even having L1 with bare wire and on outside so you can adjust the primary tap on the fly as well

ok and on the bitoroid, the primary, im actually not totally sure how many turns, but you can put on 50 or so and then check the inductance by scratching a small spot on your wire with the LCR's alligator clip to measure, then coat it with nail polish or something to recoat it to continue adding turns if needed.
mine measured 29.5mH
with 20 gauge magnet wire

BUT more critical is that you double the thickness of the L2 flux paths at least, mine was ok but i really wasnt using bigger flux paths, they were the same thickness,
and keep the doubled toroids insulated (so it acts as 2, instead of one fat one with even worse eddy currents)

dont forget to put electrical tape on the surface of the coil locations, you shouldnt wrap the wire on the bare ferrite

having an overall wider toroid that went around the circumference and thru L2s would be ideal

[Dave45]

http://www.energeticforum.com/217168-post246.html

[clarence]

Hendershot Replications

http://www.energeticforum.com/217168-post246.html

Hello Dave45,

clarence here,

many thanks sir for this posting concerning the hendershot replication. I followed the links 0n that post # 246 and did download the whole videos of Book,tools,parts list,schematic!!!!!!!

Just simply AWESOME man - unbelieveable! as it states anybody should be able to build this! and suposedly all the parts said to cost around $100 usa
and a few hours to build. AWESOME - AWESOME!!!!!!

thanks again for your posting! mike,onward!

PS - At the end of the construction guide the build immediately was shown lighting a large bank o regular light bulbs DON SMITH style!

[Dave45]

Hello Dave45,

clarence here,

many thanks sir for this posting concerning the hendershot replication. I followed the links 0n that post # 246 and did download the whole videos of Book,tools,parts list,schematic!!!!!!!

Just simply AWESOME man - unbelieveable! as it states anybody should be able to build this! and suposedly all the parts said to cost around $100 usa
and a few hours to build. AWESOME - AWESOME!!!!!!

thanks again for your posting! mike,onward!

Glad I could help in some small way.
Check out the V gate and understand how it works

[harishsingh]

The thing is that I'm only seeing 2 places to pull the energy out of the resonance.

Either in beteween the capacitor and secondary, where the current is sloshing back and forth.

Or from the primary, where it's returned.

This is tricky.

Kapazitiver Transformator

[Farmhand]

Here is the thread I mentioned earlier about the (Back emf - counter emf) same thing.
Just because I mention it and link it doesn't mean I agree with 'everything' in it.

The discharge of energy from the collapse of the magnetic field produces an emf
not a counter emf/back emf.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eld-spike.html

Cheers

P.S. People are free to call whatever they want anything they want of course.


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