Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[ctbenergy]

my head is spinning

hallo mr. clean

i can't wait to see your new vid.

your experiments are great
i experiment also been about 1 year of dons table top device

...did i mention there are no more coils? oops...
Powering electrical devices with energy abstracted from the atmosphere FIG.2 43
is this dons choke coil on the table top device?

[ctbenergy]

hello mr.clean

this is my current test build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmblXm0Sad8

currently i am waiting for primary nst capacitors, but i think it makes no difference in the power (W) consumption of the nst.

with capacitors on the primary side of the nst, you only correct the power factor.
Neon FAQ

or I'm wrong?

[Nick_Z]

@ Dave 45:
My circuit is taken from the Lasersaber 3.0 joule ringer design. I'm using the 2n3055, and TIP 3055T transistor, and no other component. Cfls are both gutted as well as ungutted. And I place a 65watt Cfl between both of the outputs of each secondary. My yoke core has two secondaries also, so that I can use either gutted or ungutted Cfls, Led, or incandescent.
Mr. Clean: Sounds like you are getting somewhere, can't wait to see your video. I also use an outside earth ground, it does make a difference.

[ewizard]

hello mr.clean

this is my current test build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmblXm0Sad8

currently i am waiting for primary nst capacitors, but i think it makes no difference in the power (W) consumption of the nst.

with capacitors on the primary side of the nst, you only correct the power factor.
Neon FAQ

or I'm wrong?

very nice setup there. do you know how much input power you were using in that video?

Looking forward to mr. cleans new video

[mr.clean]

hallo mr. clean

i can't wait to see your new vid.

your experiments are great
i experiment also been about 1 year of dons table top device

...did i mention there are no more coils? oops...
Powering electrical devices with energy abstracted from the atmosphere FIG.2 43
is this dons choke coil on the table top device?

hi yes im excited as well,

beautiful patent you posted, ive seen it before and still dont know its capability, but it looks great

i think its far more advanced than Don's basic table top demos, but definitely i believe all components were necessary.

i think that there is much energy to be had from higher elevation/ atmospheric energy, and extremely useful for transmission

...but if simply desiring power, why not let everything happen directly, with generated positive energy (done by the operator),
and a direct (Earth) connection to supply the Equally required negative ?

if 1 = the power needed,
then i propose in my next simplified video that .5 is from the HV module and .5 is supplied from the Earth...
.5 + .5 = 1

[level]

currently i am waiting for primary nst capacitors, but i think it makes no difference in the power (W) consumption of the nst.
with capacitors on the primary side of the nst, you only correct the power factor.
or I'm wrong?

Yes, that is correct. There are actually two ways of looking at it.

Power Factor Correction:
Placing one or more caps in parallel with the primary of the NST such that the supply current and supply voltage waveforms coming from your variac are close to or exactly in phase, is termed power factor correction. When the supply voltage and supply current are exactly in phase, the power factor will be 1. The cosine of the phase angle between the supply voltage and supply current is the power factor value.
When the voltage and current are exactly in phase, the phase angle is 0 degrees, and cos(0) = 1.

One advantage of correcting the power factor on the primary of your NST is it can make measurement of the input power to your NST simpler. If you have placed the right capacitor value(s) in parallel to the NST primary such that the power factor is 1, since the output of your variac is a 50 or 60 Hz (depending on where you live) sinewave, you can then use an ordinary multimeter to measure the voltage across the NST primary and the current into the NST primary, and multiply them together to get the real input power. When the power factor is 1, the apparent power equals the real power. Another advantage of correcting the power factor on the primary of your NST is it will place less of a current load on your variac, since having a power factor less than 1 means you will have higher reactive current, and the variac will need to supply that higher current.

Parallel LC resonance:
When you place a cap in parallel to the NST primary such that the power factor is adjusted to be very close to 1, another way to look at it is you are adjusting the parallel cap and NST primary winding for parallel resonance at 50 or 60 Hz. Basically, when the capacitive reactance is exactly equal to the inductive reactance of the primary, the capacitive and inductive reactance cancel each other out and the input to the NST primary looks purely resistive. In such a case the power factor will be equal to 1, and the apparent input power equals the real input power.

Keep in mind that many multimeters are not meant to be accurate for AC voltage and current measurements above about 100 Hz or so, and they are also only accurate for AC measurements when measuring non distorted sinewaves, but when driving an NST with a 50 or 60 Hz sinewave from a variac an ordinary multimeter should be fine. If a person has an oscilloscope, checking the waveform shape across the NST primary would be a good idea as well, as the waveform can potentially get quite distorted when driving reactive loads, and when driving high current loads. If the waveform is not a pure sinewave shape, using a regular multimeter to measure input voltage and current may not be really accurate. Using a true RMS meter in such a case would be better, or using a scope to do or to help confirm the measurements would be a good idea as well.

You can also get wattmeters that plug into an AC wall socket which measure power factor and which can display real and apparent power, and you could then plug your variac into the wattmeter, and you can set the watmeter to read the real input power, but when using a sparkgap it can create a huge amount of electromagnetic noise over a broad range of frequencies and this can really mess up the readings on these kinds of wattmeters. Not sure if a GDT produces quite as much EM noise as a sparkgap, but it probably still does produce a fair bit.

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, what is the voltage rating on the GDT you are using on the output of your NST in your video? Does your GDT get really hot? Also, does your NST output at 60 Hz on the secondary, or do you have the higher frequency output kind?

[level]

Using lights as a load

I noticed that a few people are using halogen lamps as a load in their testing. The problem with using various kinds of lights as loads is it can be deceiving if you are trying to estimate output power based on the brightness that a light is giving off. The reason for this is various types of lights can perform quite differently if driven with a higher voltage, or different frequency, or different waveform shape than they are designed to be run at.

For example, if you are driving say a halogen bulb at a voltage higher than it is rated at, or at a frequency other than what it is rated at, or AC instead of DC, etc., it may possibly perform quite differently, so comparing perceived light brightness could be very misleading if you are trying to use that to estimate power output. As an example, a halogen bulb's brightness does not increase linearly with an increase in voltage. It actually increases exponentially; so, for example, if you drive the halogen bulb with a voltage that is say 5% above its nominal rated voltage, the bulb may actually appear about 15% brighter than normal, and if you drive the bulb with a voltage that is about 10% higher than its nominal rated voltage, the bulb may appear about 30% brighter than when run at its nominal voltage. Keep in mind that even if you aware of this, it still doesn't tell you anything about the power consumption of the bulb, as power is the product of both the voltage and current.

At higher voltages, a bulb potentially (no pun intended ) may have some ionization or arcing starting to occur inside it, which could change the way the light performs quite a bit. IMO, the safest bet is to use a purely resistive load, which will dissipate its power as heat. Keep in mind that some power resistors use a wire winding and have some inductance to them, so such power resistors can give misleading measurements depending on what frequency you are driving them at.

I understand that using lightbulbs as a load gives some visual feedback and is convenient for quick test setups, but for any hope of accurate power measurements a purely resistive load is a much better way to go, IMO anyway. Of course if you are generating a kW or more of output power, finding a suitable resistive load might be tricky, but you can always convert the output to 12VDC or 24VDC, and then run a bank of 12VDC or 24VDC filament light bubs that totals up to your desired load output power. With a pure, well filtered, DC output, it should then be fairly easy to use a regular multimeter to measure the DC voltage across your load and DC current into the load to accurately measure the power delivered to the load. Also, If you can convert the output to 12VDC or 24VDC, you could also then connect an efficient DC to AC inverter (pure sinewave type is probably the best) to the output, and then drive something like a large AC electric convection heater, or several large electric convection heaters. The kind of electric convection heaters that have a resistive heat element and no electric fan would be desirable for this type of use.

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I suggest someone with a Variac do a very simple experiment and report
the results here.

Using a regular incandescent bulb light the bulb with 60% 70% 80% 90% and 100 %
of the rated voltage and record the power consumed by the light globe.

My prediction is that at say 80% of the rated voltage applied the light globe will
be fairly bright and may look almost fully lit up, and when the last 20% of the
rated voltage is applied the input power will increase a lot as compared to the
light increase produced.

I have a feeling this experiment may already be done. In my opinion this
experiment or some variation of it should be performed and recorded on video by
one of the more qualified members with the relevant equipment.

If plotted on a graph it would show how effective or maybe how misleading
using light globes to determine output power is or can be.

Who else has a variac ?

Incandescent bulbs have inductance and quite a bit. The filament is a coil.
Maybe detailing the "make", ratings, inductance and cold resistance of the
light globe used would be useful info as well.


As for lighting bulbs with higher voltages and frequencies I've had bulbs light up
part way then go dim because of arcing across the terminals inside the bulb.

Cheers

[Dave45]

Here's an idea for DS system
Don Smith with a twist

I know I didnt draw it but you come out of the receiving coils at the first layer working outside in with the figure 8

Kurt Carly Simon - Anticipation - YouTube, maybe that isnt the right song
still waiting for the vid

[level]

...
Using a regular incandescent bulb light the bulb with 60% 70% 80% 90% and 100 %
of the rated voltage and record the power consumed by the light globe.

My prediction is that at say 80% of the rated voltage applied the light globe will
be fairly bright and may look almost fully lit up, and when the last 20% of the
rated voltage is applied the input power will increase a lot as compared to the
light increase produced.

Yes, another problem with using light bulbs as loads to estimate power consumption is that the human eye is just not very good at estimating light brightness very accurately. Using the eye to estimate if the light is at 60% brightness, or 80% brightness, or 110% brightness, etc. may not be really accurate. The pupil dilates or contracts in relation to light brightness as well, and affects the perceived brightness. I don't currently have a variac, but another thing to watch out for is that it probably isn't a good idea to use the dial indicator on the variac to determine the voltage it is outputting. It may be close, but it could also be off a fair bit. The output voltage on the variac is going to vary somewhat with the exact load it is driving. Using an accurate voltmeter to measure the output voltage of the variac is probably a good idea.

Yes the filament of a light bulb can have some inductance to it, but at 50Hz or 60Hz, the small inductance of a light bulb will likely be negligible. Once you start getting to frequencies above 500 kHz or so, depending on how much inductance there actually is, it could already start skewing measurements. If a given load has a fair bit of inductance (or capacitance, depending on the exact load), it could start skewing measurements at much lower frequencies.

Making accurate input and output power measurements can be quite tricky in AC circuits unless a lot of care is taken to account for various factors. Reactance, frequency, waveform shape, capabilties and specs of meters used, voltage transients like voltage spikes, and RF noise generated from things like sparkgaps can all impact power measurements quite a bit, and all such factors need to be fully taken into account when doing measurements. Where possible, converting output to drive a load with pure DC, or with AC with an undistorted sinewave at 50Hz or 60Hz, and using an accurate meter to measure load voltage and load current with some sort of resistive load makes load power consumption measurement a lot easier. Even then, you always still have to watch out for varous factors such as mentioned above that might be skewing results. Using a good oscilloscope in AC circuits will go a long way to help determine what sort of factors you are actually dealing with at the input and output, if a person actually cares about doing accurate power measurements that is.

[mr.clean]

I noticed that a few people are using halogen lamps as a load in their testing. The problem with using various kinds of lights as loads is it can be deceiving if you are trying to estimate output power based on the brightness that a light is giving off. The reason for this is various types of lights can perform quite differently if driven with a higher voltage, or different frequency, or different waveform shape than they are designed to be run at.

For example, if you are driving say a halogen bulb at a voltage higher than it is rated at, or at a frequency other than what it is rated at, or AC instead of DC, etc., it may possibly perform quite differently, so comparing perceived light brightness could be very misleading if you are trying to use that to estimate power output. As an example, a halogen bulb's brightness does not increase linearly with an increase in voltage. It actually increases exponentially; so, for example, if you drive the halogen bulb with a voltage that is say 5% above its nominal rated voltage, the bulb may actually appear about 15% brighter than normal, and if you drive the bulb with a voltage that is about 10% higher than its nominal rated voltage, the bulb may appear about 30% brighter than when run at its nominal voltage. Keep in mind that even if you aware of this, it still doesn't tell you anything about the power consumption of the bulb, as power is the product of both the voltage and current.

At higher voltages, a bulb potentially (no pun intended ) may have some ionization or arcing starting to occur inside it, which could change the way the light performs quite a bit. IMO, the safest bet is to use a purely resistive load, which will dissipate its power as heat. Keep in mind that some power resistors use a wire winding and have some inductance to them, so such power resistors can give misleading measurements depending on what frequency you are driving them at.

I understand that using lightbulbs as a load gives some visual feedback and is convenient for quick test setups, but for any hope of accurate power measurements a purely resistive load is a much better way to go, IMO anyway. Of course if you are generating a kW or more of output power, finding a suitable resistive load might be tricky, but you can always convert the output to 12VDC or 24VDC, and then run a bank of 12VDC or 24VDC filament light bubs that totals up to your desired load output power. With a pure, well filtered, DC output, it should then be fairly easy to use a regular multimeter to measure the DC voltage across your load and DC current into the load to accurately measure the power delivered to the load. Also, If you can convert the output to 12VDC or 24VDC, you could also then connect an efficient DC to AC inverter (pure sinewave type is probably the best) to the output, and then drive something like a large AC electric convection heater, or several large electric convection heaters. The kind of electric convection heaters that have a resistive heat element and no electric fan would be desirable for this type of use.

yep thats right, all im saying is applying HV to one end of a cap built to handle HV, and a ground connection to the other, then add a spark to the situation,
and you have a great power source,
which is not new, but unique in that it depends on the ground to charge the neg side of the cap, or there would only be charge applied to the positive side, and no reason for the bulb to light

in the new vid i will have, the ground, thru load, then to cap, spark added, and so on.. but my point is that the load is right off the ground wire, then to the rest,
and to meet the positive charge, the ground current must pass the load to reach neg plate of the cap.

to me it means that only the positive charge is needed, which builds up on pos plate of cap, then discharged thru the spark event, and that is the bait to draw the neg up thru the load

..as the pos charge cannot pass thru the one side of the cap being rectified, it only goes that far and out the spark gap, the ground doing the rest of the work by being attracted to the positive, and just happens to pass thru the load on the way to do it's natural thing


it can work slower with an antenna but much faster with a direct ground, but you need a spark, otherwise only very slow charging.

and who knows till its hooked up and measured, but it really seems like i am only needing to provide half the power with the same loads as before.
and the way i see it whether HV or low V, you wont get the light and heat if you are lacking the power,
HV alone will not do anything without the juice behind it

[level]

...
in the new vid i will have, the ground, thru load, then to cap, spark added, and so on.. but my point is that the load is right off the ground wire, then to the rest,
and to meet the positive charge, the ground current must pass the load to reach neg plate of the cap.

to me it means that only the positive charge is needed, which builds up on pos plate of cap, then discharged thru the spark event, and that is the bait to draw the neg up thru the load

..as the pos charge cannot pass thru the one side of the cap being rectified, it only goes that far and out the spark gap, the ground doing the rest of the work by being attracted to the positive, and just happens to pass thru the load on the way to do it's natural thing
...

I see. Sounds like an interesting experiment. If you are using a 60Hz NST to generate the high voltage, some of these are centerpoint grounded on the secondary. If that is the case with your NST, then the ground side of the capacitor might find its return path to the NST secondary via the secondary's center ground connection. I just did a quick test on my 60 Hz NST, and I measure about 6500 Ohms from either post of the NST secondary to the ground lug on the NST. I am not exactly sure how it is connected internally, but it does seem to confirm that there is a return path to the secondary from the ground lug on my NST anyway. I would have to see a wiring diagram of how you have things connected up exactly to be sure I understand how you are connecting things up. Maybe you mean something else than what I am picturing.

Tesla and Don Smith and apparently various others such as Kapanadze seem to have considered a good earth ground to be important, and it would seem at least plausible to me that a good earth ground might well be a good source of excess energy in an over unity system.

...
and who knows till its hooked up and measured, but it really seems like i am only needing to provide half the power with the same loads as before.
and the way i see it whether HV or low V, you wont get the light and heat if you are lacking the power,
HV alone will not do anything without the juice behind it

Sure, I don't think anyone would question that lighting a higher wattage light up fairly brightly shows that you are getting some degree of power to the light, but to be sure exactly how much power the light is consuming you would have to do some careful power measurements. You are no doubt producing some half decent power in your latest don smith device videos, but exactly how much power you are producing can't be judged accurately based on light brightness, is all that that I am suggesting. Keep at it. You seem to be making good progress for sure, and I will be interested to see your new video with a capacitor through a load to ground. What are you using for your ground?

[mr.clean]

Here's an idea for DS system
Don Smith with a twist

I know I didnt draw it but you come out of the receiving coils at the first layer working outside in with the figure 8

Kurt Carly Simon - Anticipation - YouTube, maybe that isnt the right song
still waiting for the vid

too funny, yeah that vid is a bit too mellow in this case, how about..
Pantera- Becoming - YouTube
..basically about the individual rising to control and turning corrupt themself lol anyway, funny

i like the circuit, many similar with great results,
ive always been confused, in center tapped primaries, is the primary CW CW or CW CCW from the center outwards?

Secondaries are picky, probably primaries as well?

[mr.clean]

I see. Sounds like an interesting experiment. If you are using a 60Hz NST to generate the high voltage, some of these are centerpoint grounded on the secondary. If that is the case with your NST, then the ground side of the capacitor might find its return path to the NST secondary via the secondary's center ground connection...
....maybe you mean something else than what I am picturing.

Tesla and Don Smith and apparently various others such as Kapanadze seem to have considered a good earth ground to be important, and it would seem at least plausible to me that a good earth ground might well be a good source of excess energy in an over unity system.

Sure, I don't think anyone would question that lighting a higher wattage light up fairly brightly shows that you are getting some degree of power to the light, but to be sure exactly how much power the light is consuming you would have to do some careful power measurements...
... What are you using for your ground?

the ground connection is separate from the NST ground, any ground connection seems to work, im sure the deeper the better could be possible.
In fact if you arent concerned with circuit grounding, then all you need to ground is the single (in this case) but i cant speak for all devices that use sparks and grounds, although there do seem to be some recurring factors

For sure, the ground is the best practical method i see to have access to an "open source"

yes it will be interesting finding out actual wattage, or seeing what its capable of anyway.

For my ground i have an 8 gauge litz wire which goes out my window to a 12 inch nail in the ground, under the evestrough so that water always runs onto it, then a second that i have 10 meters or so away, but not as good moisture, then i use a third being the house ground for NST ground or DC circuit ground

id say only maximum of 2 grounds are needed, but even when using one ground for all parts, similar to identical results. so i think it effectively keeps 0V consistant at the shared ground connection points, if you are concerned that power is being taken indirectly to the second grounding from the NST

and also im getting my good drivers fixed, and i presume that things will "brighten up" more than my crude setup

[level]

... and also im getting my good drivers fixed, and i presume that things will "brighten up" more than my crude setup

Hi mr. clean. Ok on all. I will be interested to see how you make out with it. I am still doing my own testing as well, but I don't have a lot of free time these days so I am taking it slow. Good luck with the experiments!