Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[mr.clean]

I have tried some projects but no luck at this time, i did however followed yours and i am very impressed with what you have achieved so please forgive me if i gave you the wrong idea it was not in anyway to take away from what you have done it is only to ad another perspective to some possible things
Best Johan

no harm done i cried a little but im ok now...

you're a great guy, stay "tuned" i am going to improve further on what i have, it seems like every time i work on it i get it better and better
You all will know when i do

[level]

no problem im pretty happy with it

Hi mr clean. You do realize that your circuit is just a common sparkgap driver circuit, right? Basically what you are doing is exchanging the primary of a tesla coil with a halogen bulb. In other words, you are just swapping in a different load in place of an air core transformer primary winding. These types of circuits are often grounded to earth ground, and that is pretty common as well. Many tesla coils are driven exactly like this. That's not to say that I don't think a sparkgap driver circuit necessarily can't produce over unity, as this type of sparkgap driver circuit is the basis of some of Don Smith's devices and kapandze's devices.
However, Don Smith described a simple tesla coil device in the 'bonus' videos which didn't use a sparkgap driver on the primary. Don Smith suggested just connecting a 12VDC NST directly to the primary of a tesla coil with no sparkgap and no capacitor, but I tried that and it does not work with my 12V NST, as a 12V NST does not seem to have enough current drive to do this. Maybe Don Smith had an NST with no short circuit or overload protection and which had more current drive. Not sure, but I really wonder if Don Smith actually ever even tried that setup to see if it would actually work. Some other things he has said were just plain obviously wrong, so Don Smith remains a puzzle to me. Anyway, my point is that Don Smith seemed to feel that the sparkgap driver part of the circuit wasn't necessary for over unity with these type of setups, but that doesn't mean the sparkgap driver circuit necessarily doesn't increase performance. It might...

[Farmhand]

Are you meaning something like this?

Hi Ken, Maybe yes. What is it ? Is there any more info ? I'm not surprised if
it's been done already, I was thinking, to increase the capacitance an
arrangement similar to a HV parallel plate variable capacitor that can rotate
completely around but has the plates the correct shape.

These types of things should produce sine waves I think, at any frequency.

What would such a thing be called ?

I'm interested if there is any more info on that setup.

Cheers

[level]

...
On my large double helix board from vid 30A, i have added now 3 parallel diodes each rated 30kv20mA... and they still are failing HOT... (that's 1800 watts!)
and still overheating and flaming out!

Hi mr clean. If a diode is rated at 30KV, 20mA, it doesn't mean that the diode can handle 600 Watts. 30KV would be the maximum peak reverse voltage the diode can withstand before breaking down. The 20 mA rating is the maximum forward current the diode can withstand before overheating. So if you have three diodes paralleled that are rated at a max forward current of 20mA, then the max current they could withstand is about 60mA. They will likely overheat and possibly fail at currents close to or over 60mA.

[level]

...
I was thinking, to increase the capacitance an
arrangement similar to a HV parallel plate variable capacitor that can rotate
completely around but has the plates the correct shape.
These types of things should produce sine waves I think, at any frequency.
Cheers

Hi farmhand. Not sure if you are aware of this or not, but they make a special type of air variable capacitor called a butterfly capacitor, which has two separate sets of stator plate sets with separate connection lugs for each separate stator plate set, and center rotor coupling plates which you do not connect to. I believe many are designed such that the rotor can rotate a full 360 degrees circle as well. The idea is that each separate stator plate set is the separate plates of the capacitor, and both of these sets of plates allow electrical connections without slip rings because they are both stationary. The center rotor plate set just varies the total amount of capacitive coupling between the two sets of stator plates as it is rotated. The center rotor has no electrical connection. Since the two sets of stator plates require no slip rings, these types of capacitors have a lot less resistive losses than regular air variables with one stator and one rotor with a slip ring connection. The disadvantage is they don't have as much capacitance as an equivalent sized regular air variable capacitor, so you need to build them somewhat bigger if you need larger capacitances. Like any air variable, the wider the plate spacing, the higher the voltage rating, but the lower the capacitance as well. The edges of all the plates should be rounded off a bit as well to help inhibit corona discharge.
Here is a picture of what they commonly might look like:


P.S. Here is a website that apparently sells kits and parts for butterfly type capacitors, in case you are interested. The website appears to not be complete, but the simple capacitor calculator seems to work.
Monarch Capacitors

[ctbenergy]

hello mr.clean

currently i am waiting for primary nst capacitors, but i think it makes no difference in the power (W) consumption of the nst.

with capacitors on the primary side of the nst, you only correct the power factor.
Neon FAQ

or I'm wrong?

i was wrong

without capacitor in parallel on the primary of the NST = 33,2W
with = 19,6W

capacitor type MKP1848S57070JP2C

and again, thank you, mr. clean

[rosehillworks]

Here is a good video on capacitance reducing power consumption. I think you will also like the rest of this man's videos.
Capacitance lowers Induction motor Amp draw by 80% - YouTube

i was wrong

without capacitor in parallel on the primary of the NST = 33,2W
with = 19,6W

capacitor type MKP1848S57070JP2C

and again, thank you, mr. clean

[Solarlab]

Pout vs Pin - significant observation!

hey i just noticed something very cool

i ran the recent system for about 10 minutes, running 2 of the DC 50 watt bulbs, and have a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor in-line with the supply, and one also in-line with the load...

...the load resistor is RED HOT and the supply resistor is slightly warm.

shouldnt both resistors be the same??.....

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5757/imagenxpa.jpg

Mr. Clean - This is a significant observation.

From what I recall - In RF/Microwave power amplifier (or any) design work a Bolometer is used to measure the precise power of interest - they're a non-inductive resistor with a sensitive thermistor (or other heat sensing device) calibrated to yield a power [P=V*I]. Bolometers are relatively frequency insensitive and provide accurate power gain or loss [Pout/Pin] of the overall circuit. There can be more to it, but don't look too deep for now! Tout >> Tin = Pgain .

Great work...

[level]

i was wrong
without capacitor in parallel on the primary of the NST = 33,2W
with = 19,6W

Hi ctbenergy. When you use a parallel capacitor on the primary of a transformer to correct power factor, you will see a reduction of reactive current. You are reducing apparent power input , but not reducing real power input. I did already explain this to you in more detail in an earlier reply to you a few days ago though. Apparent power input is not the same as real power input. With the right value of parallel capacitance in place you will reduce reactive currents, so if you are just measuring input current without taking into account the phase angle between the input voltage and input current, it may seem like power input has decreased, but that is why they call it apparent power.

[level]

Here is a good video on capacitance reducing power consumption. I think you will also like the rest of this man's videos.
Capacitance lowers Induction motor Amp draw by 80% - YouTube

That video doesn't say anything at all about reducing power consumption. He is demonstrating how using a parallel capacitance to correct for power factor reduces the reactive current draw on the incoming AC line. This reduces apparent power input, but does not reduce real power input.

[level]

hey i just noticed something very cool
i ran the recent system for about 10 minutes, running 2 of the DC 50 watt bulbs, and have a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor in-line with the supply, and one also in-line with the load...
...the load resistor is RED HOT and the supply resistor is slightly warm.
shouldnt both resistors be the same??.....
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5757/imagenxpa.jpg

They won't necessarily be the same because the amount of heat depends on the current flowing. You may only have about 0.25W dissipating in the 1 ohm resistor in your source line, but with the high current spikes generated by the sparkgap/capacitor driver circuit, you will have short duration but very high instantaneous power spikes in the 1 ohm resistor in series with your load. Over time (like 10 minutes) I would guess that heat generated by the large current spikes will build up a fair bit of heat in the power resistor. Although the large voltage and current spikes may make it seem like a lot of power is dissipating there, if you were to be able to determine the actual power being dissipated it is probably not as high as it might seem. As I have said before, this type of sparkgap/capacitor discharge setup may possibly produce over unity, but accurately measuring the power of the very high voltage and current pulse waveforms is tricky, as you know.

[level]

...
From what I recall - In RF/Microwave power amplifier (or any) design work a Bolometer is used to measure the precise power of interest - they're a non-inductive resistor with a sensitive thermistor (or other heat sensing device) calibrated to yield a power [P=V*I]. Bolometers are relatively frequency insensitive and provide accurate power gain or loss [Pout/Pin] of the overall circuit. ...

I believe bolometers are used to measure radiated power, i.e. they can be placed in a microwave waveguide for example to measure the radiated power. That being the case, they likely wouldn't be of much use in this sort of setup. You can get RF meters for measuring true RMS current and voltage, but with the high voltage spikes being generated by this type of circuit you might well risk blowing them. You can also get RF high voltage and current probes, but they can be a bit expensive.

[kenssurplus]

Hi Ken, Maybe yes. What is it ? Is there any more info ? I'm not surprised if
it's been done already, I was thinking, to increase the capacitance an
arrangement similar to a HV parallel plate variable capacitor that can rotate
completely around but has the plates the correct shape.

These types of things should produce sine waves I think, at any frequency.

What would such a thing be called ?

I'm interested if there is any more info on that setup.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand, This is a variable rotary capacitor (what I call it anyway). I built this to vary the high voltage at 60 hz into a step down transformer. It is driven by a syncronous ac motor.

There are two glass reels with (4) aluminum foil one eighth sections INSIDE each glass reel. Between the glass reels, there are two LP records together with (4) one eighth sections of aluminum foil on each side. These records are connected on a shaft with a bearing pressed into a plastic holder in the front of the apparatus. One electrical connection is tied to a bolt touching this bearing. The other end of the shaft is insulated by plastic tubing and is driven by a syncronous ac motor to drive the plates at 60 cycles per second.

Originally I had the capacitor plates as quarters but realized that I would only get 1/4 to 1/2 of the possible swing in voltage because of overlap of the two reels. I needed to have a dead area or open area that had neither front nor back plate covering the rotor plates.

During testing, the two glass reel plates were connected to the high voltage terminals of a NST in step down fasion with a meter monitoring the 100 VAC terminals to see if anything was induced. High voltage DC of about 10kv was fed to the central record rotor and was increased to the point of air breakdown and arc between the record rotor and the stationary glass reels. The other polarity (ground potential) of HV DC went to the case of the NST ground connector. I could not detect any voltage stepped down in any case through the NST.

I should have built a air core transformer with center tap to verify for sure, but I gave up on it and moved to another project.

[rosehillworks]

They won't necessarily be the same because the amount of heat depends on the current flowing. You may only have about 0.25W dissipating in the 1 ohm resistor in your source line, but with the high current spikes generated by the sparkgap/capacitor driver circuit, you will have short duration but very high instantaneous power spikes in the 1 ohm resistor in series with your load. Over time (like 10 minutes) I would guess that heat generated by the large current spikes will build up a fair bit of heat in the power resistor. Although the large voltage and current spikes may make it seem like a lot of power is dissipating there, if you were to be able to determine the actual power being dissipated it is probably not as high as it might seem. As I have said before, this type of sparkgap/capacitor discharge setup may possibly produce over unity, but accurately measuring the power of the very high voltage and current pulse waveforms is tricky, as you know.

I do not think your analysis is correct. This is virtually the same as saying that using your brakes constantly while going down hill will keep them cooler then if they are periodically pulsed. Braking constantly while going down hill with a load will severely overheat them! However if we consider the flywheel effect on the current caused by the pumping action of the collapsing magnetic fields in such a pulsed circuit it can then be seen where the extra heat is generated, but mr.clean is using a light as the resister and they have vary little inductance so I think he is right in saying that the extra current is coming from the ground with all do respect that is how I see it.

[level]

I do not think your analysis is correct. This is virtually the same as saying that using your brakes constantly while going down hill will keep them cooler then if they are periodically pulsed. Braking constantly while going down hill with a load will severely overheat them! However if we consider the flywheel effect on the current caused by the pumping action of the collapsing magnetic fields in such a pulsed circuit it can then be seen where the extra heat is generated, but mr.clean is using a light as the resister and they have vary little inductance so I think he is right in saying that the extra current is coming from the ground with all do respect that is how I see it.

Hi rosehillworks. I was referring more to the fact that heat will build up slowly in the power resistor body over time (like over 10 minutes for example) so if you leave it long enough the resistor can get pretty hot. Using your analogy of pumping the brakes, if you are going down a long steep hill and continue to pump your brakes in very short spurts as you continue down the hill, your brakes can still start to get very hot after a while as the heat starts to build up in the brake hardware and doesn't dissipate as quickly as it is building up.

Also, I am not saying that current can't come from or flow to the ground, as it likely is in this configuration. I have been doing tests with the same sort of setup and my tests also show an increase in power delivered to the load when the ground wire is connected, but my points are about how much the power is actually increased and whether this is over unity or not. All I have been saying is that careful and proper power measurements need to be taken if someone wants to try to determine for sure, and I am cautioning about being too quick to jump to conclusions. Again, there is little doubt in my mind that there is current flowing to or from ground, as I am seeing similar results in my testing as well.

I am also seeing results in my testing with tesla coils, comparing with and without ground connected, that I can't seem to make sense of right now. There may be quite simple explanations for some of the stuff I am seeing, and some of the stuff that is puzzling me might very well have to do with me just misinterpreting or misunderstanding what I am seeing, or my overlooking certain things. It is so easy to misinterpret or overlook things when testing with these type of circuits because there are a lot of complex things going on.