Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[janost]

I found a circuit on the Internet that produced this climbing voltage effect. You have now seen the same thing? Like you, I noticed that when I disconnected the JT, i.e. disconnected the battery (cell) from the circuit, the measured voltage on the cell was higher than the high voltage that I observed when the voltage was "rising". You can draw you own conclusion, but mine is as follows. The JT was gradually drawing less current as the stored energy in the tank became greater and greater. The battery chemistry was slowly producing enough excess electrons that the cell was able to "get ahead" quite rapidly once the circuit was opened. The JT circuit was definitely in JT mode, because the cell was in the 0.5 to 0.8 volt range. In my case, the JT was operating at a frequency of 10+ MHz. I have had JTs operating at up to 29 MHz. BTW, this implies that the capacitance part of the tank is in the coil itself. I did not have a separate cap. I would like to hear other theories, but the one thing I remember clearly was the unloaded voltage on the battery was HIGHER than the loaded voltage, even though it was climbing.

I came to the same conclusion. As it was drawing less current the voltage climbed. The whole thing settled on a limb.

[aaron5120]

Hi Janost,
I noticed your supercap failed after running the circuit for a few hours, that would indicate a strong AC feedback from the circuit that tended to destroy the electrolytic supercap.
You may need to change it to a non-polarized cap, say, a 200~300mfd 450V AC one.
I insist it is good to check whether the charged battery has a solid charge after all by taking it out from the ckt and discharge it through a resistive load.
There has been cases of researchers in the past who discovered at the end of their experiments that similar charging setups did not provide a solid charge to the batteries, rather, it was merely pure potential charging, and very little current charging.
Still, I am not discouraging your work, this circuit of yours maybe different though.
Thanks for taking our suggestions into account.
aaron5120

[janost]

Hi Janost,
I noticed your supercap failed after running the circuit for a few hours, that would indicate a strong AC feedback from the circuit that tended to destroy the electrolytic supercap.
You may need to change it to a non-polarized cap, say, a 200~300mfd 450V AC one.
I insist it is good to check whether the charged battery has a solid charge after all by taking it out from the ckt and discharge it through a resistive load.
There has been cases of researchers in the past who discovered at the end of their experiments that similar charging setups did not provide a solid charge to the batteries, rather, it was merely pure potential charging, and very little current charging.
Still, I am not discouraging your work, this circuit of yours maybe different though.
Thanks for taking our suggestions into account.
aaron5120

Even when I pull up the current, the circuit still works.

[Kokomoj0]

So I am curious, where is the cutoff where we can officially say its too good to be true? 10,000 posts maybe?

It only takes stiffler a few posts to get his resonant sec to work and produce, what seems to be the problem with this one?

[Peculian]

So I am curious, where is the cutoff where we can officially say its too good to be true? 10,000 posts maybe?

Hi Kokomoj0.
It seems there are many reasons, which almost all paved and "analysed"
in this thread/topic, so I think there`s no reason to repeat them and lose our time.
Here we have different mindset-groups, the main ones being the guys&girls
who, after carefull analysis have come to the conclusion that Don L. Smith Devices
in fact worked really as claimed, despite the fact that we cannot make an exact
copy of one of them and obtaining the same results.
Me, happens to be in this first group for reasons I have already expressed in this thread.

The Radiant Energy Receiver of T.Henry Moray devices worked,
and we know this for sure, despite - again - the fact, 
that we are unable to do the same thing.

The second mindset-group is the one, with folks thinking/believing that Don`s devices
are fake ones, most probably depends on it`s hard-cored laws of physics.

Others, are in conflict of interests if this finally be confirmed to the main public as real-working devices, this in turn means less or no huge money incoming..
aka Big Petrolioum Oil companies, Governments: could be losing very huge incomes
from taxes which is their "vampire blood" so to say.

Yes there are other group-mindsets I might have missed.
One of them being the real faking guys who destroy the reputation of good inventors.

It only takes stiffler a few posts to get his resonant sec to work and produce, what seems to be the problem with this one?

Hmm... interesting.
I think you know the story of John Bedini, having a visit to him by 2 "m.i.b`s"
said him to keep his devices to toy level
Maybe Stiffer has already taken care to keep to "toy level" ?!
Just thinking.

Science ? Is a perverse of itself, because they cannot explain the most basic laws of nature
Gravity i.e. and how our star: the Sun "works" with theories coming ang going
with no real answers....

cheers folks.
Regards.

[penno64]

Don't know what you mean?

The diode is a standard 1N4007

Thanks Janost, guess I should have just asked - what is the diode.

Appologies, Penno

[janost]

So I am curious, where is the cutoff where we can officially say its too good to be true? 10,000 posts maybe?

It only takes stiffler a few posts to get his resonant sec to work and produce, what seems to be the problem with this one?

Where is your post?

[Gedfire]

Capacitors and Resistors

When dealing with slowly changing voltages and currents you may apply these two general rules:

1. A resistor in SERIES with a cap will limit or control the RISING energy in the cap.

2. A resistor in PARALLEL with a cap will limit or control the DECLINING energy stored in the cap.

@Janost, Peculian and Wayne.ct, thanks for taking time out to respond.Your efforts are appreciated.

I asked because,I saw a don schematic that said the resistor was across the cap as frequency and voltage control.Patrick Kelly suggested that it was done to set the capacitor at a certain frequency.I assume the time constant was converted to frequency in that case.

As for me, I ordered some stuff and they should arrive within a month.I am drooling to get back to experimenting again...I don't want to harm my new supercaps.

BTW , how do I calculate the self resonant frequency of a cap.I see it does have inductance.Do I use the same LC formula, does it matter? What if i dc pulse cap at its self resonant frequency?

Best regards,
Ged

[janost]

@Janost, Peculian and Wayne.ct, thanks for taking time out to respond.Your efforts are appreciated.

I asked because,I saw a don schematic that said the resistor was across the cap as frequency and voltage control.Patrick Kelly suggested that it was done to set the capacitor at a certain frequency.I assume the time constant was converted to frequency in that case.

As for me, I ordered some stuff and they should arrive within a month.I am drooling to get back to experimenting again...I don't want to harm my new supercaps.

BTW , how do I calculate the self resonant frequency of a cap.I see it does have inductance.Do I use the same LC formula, does it matter? What if i dc pulse cap at its self resonant frequency?

Best regards,
Ged

A capacitor doesnt contain any resonance.

But it does have a timeconstant defined as T=RC and the R component is the ESR of the cap.

[Gedfire]

Capacior and Resonance Back To Basics and Big Capacitors

A capacitor doesnt contain any resonance.

But it does have a timeconstant defined as T=RC and the R component is the ESR of the cap.

thanks for replying.when i google self resonance of caps I find stuff that ,well i dont understand. I am thinking if caps also have inductance, mainly from the leads they say, then might we calculate its self resonant frequency?

Also ,I would like to know the capacitance of those commercial device capacitors Don had and Voltage.I don't see the capacitance written on it or is it something to calculate?

Has anyone every replication the simplest resonant device don mentioned? Yeah, complete with 1.5 volt 1 Mhz driver and neon bulb.The modern version has been dummied down.Leds .darn.Don spoke too soon.I might replicate later in the year.But first things first.

I was thinking about using speaker coils of similar specs as transmitter and multiple receivers.My problem is building the 1 Mhz driver...I find 555 timer stuff painstaking.


Just asking.

Ged

[hotrod68r]

hi gedfire.the 555 chip is said to run to 500 khz max.patrick kelly wrote somewhere the limit is about a tenth of that with most 555 chips in most applications.i dont know what the upper limit is on the 1 transistor/mosfet blocker circuits.i've seen 576khz with an air cored setup.higher speed should be attainable with less turns/inductance than what i've played with.anyone out there like to suggest an oscltr on a chip that runs up to 1.5 mhz or more? maybe a fancy signal generator ,or a diy of one is what's required.anybody

[citfta]

signal generator

Blackchisel97 suggested one of these a while back on another forum. I got one similar to this and it works great. Depending on how much you want to spend you can get them up to 5 Mhz output. They produce sine, square and triangular waveforms. They also have a frequency counter built in. A really nice simple piece of test equipment. Here's a link to one model:
1pc 0 01 3MHz DDS Function Signal Generator Module Wave 0 01 3MHz | eBay

Carroll

[Gedfire]

555 drivers

hi gedfire.the 555 chip is said to run to 500 khz max.patrick kelly wrote somewhere the limit is about a tenth of that with most 555 chips in most applications.i dont know what the upper limit is on the 1 transistor/mosfet blocker circuits.i've seen 576khz with an air cored setup.higher speed should be attainable with less turns/inductance than what i've played with.anyone out there like to suggest an oscltr on a chip that runs up to 1.5 mhz or more? maybe a fancy signal generator ,or a diy of one is what's required.anybody

Thanks for the response.Yes, I saw some info on the limits of the 555.Unless its some specially made ones.

I have ordered some off the shelf drivers but one of them only goes up to 100khz.The company said they are about to release a 1 Mhz version later.

Ged

[janost]

thanks for replying.when i google self resonance of caps I find stuff that ,well i dont understand. I am thinking if caps also have inductance, mainly from the leads they say, then might we calculate its self resonant frequency?

Also ,I would like to know the capacitance of those commercial device capacitors Don had and Voltage.I don't see the capacitance written on it or is it something to calculate?

Has anyone every replication the simplest resonant device don mentioned? Yeah, complete with 1.5 volt 1 Mhz driver and neon bulb.The modern version has been dummied down.Leds .darn.Don spoke too soon.I might replicate later in the year.But first things first.

I was thinking about using speaker coils of similar specs as transmitter and multiple receivers.My problem is building the 1 Mhz driver...I find 555 timer stuff painstaking.


Just asking.

Ged

if you look into UHF RF oscillators you vill find coils that are 1/2 to one turn on the resonant circits.

That is a frequency with a center around 500MHz.

So yes, it works by looping legs directly on the cap.

[Gedfire]

3 Mhz Driver YEAH!

Blackchisel97 suggested one of these a while back on another forum. I got one similar to this and it works great. Depending on how much you want to spend you can get them up to 5 Mhz output. They produce sine, square and triangular waveforms. They also have a frequency counter built in. A really nice simple piece of test equipment. Here's a link to one model:
1pc 0 01 3MHz DDS Function Signal Generator Module Wave 0 01 3MHz | eBay

Carroll

Thanks for this man.To be honest I was actively thinking about buying a function generator and spent sometime looking at a few including the high priced ones.I was thinking about just hooking it up to a MOSFET/transistor type arrangement to switch a higher voltage.I think I will do just that next time.Maybe within the next month or two I will get the suggested version on ebay.

BTW , I ended up buying 12 volt NSTs and DC Drivers for starters.Guess I will test these things when they come then go for higher frequencies later on.

Appreciate the efforts.

Ged