Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Solarlab]

Attempt at a generalized (very brief) Functional Description

Attempt at a generalized (very brief) Functional Description

*Tesla primary - current pulse [iH1p] ==> Tesla secondary - high voltage pulse [vH1p]*

**[vH1p] ==> 1/4 - 1/2 lambda high Q {resonant} coil ==> standing wave {ringing} and
circuit [LRC] resonance**

***[vH1p] electrodynamics - electrostatic - influence on high Q coil - no back emf - isolated***

****low loss resonant coil/circuit - will ring, or oscillate, for many periods of the resonant
frequency [F res] per single pulse [vH1p] - also resonates at harmonics {pulse contains
many harmonics - Fourier series} &&& like striking a bell, pushing a swing, resonant
bridge collapse, flywheel, etc.****

*****ground maintains ample electrons - needed to quickly "equalize" vH1p influence*****

#electrons drawn off rapidly for external energy use - must be replaced rapidly#

******many coil standing wave cycles per pulse and many pulses per second [KHz - MHz]
===> extra energy with respect to 50/60 Hz sine wave - OU present in reduced loss circuit
(parallel resonant - at F res impedance approaches infinity, R = circuit (coil resistance) losses
-==- V/I phase, power factor, etc.******

##Extra energy extraction - must be isolated from main circuit {maintain/keep coil circuit in
resonance} -=- capacitive discharge - current pulse, magnetic transformer, electrostatic
transformer, filter, mixer, diode, sampler, etc.##

Involves several simultaneous actions. Some systems involve more - electron velocity,
magnetic standing waves, etc.

Needs work but the basic concept is there?

[tswift]

OK, let's take what we have learned so far and apply it. As I have mentioned previously, I have this handy benchtop Tesla coil arrangement, I can drive it either as a low-power SSTC (Slayer exciter) or as a true spark-excited Tesla coil. I know from previous experiments that it is well tuned with exactly 10 nF of primary capacitance and 3.75 turns of primary inductance. So instead of driving it with the classic Tesla coil spark-excited primary circuit, I used the PVM12 to charge the primary capacitance through an AV plug. It was easiest to do this by splitting the primary capacitance into two 5 nF halves and using basically the Plauson circuit with a parallel spark gap and the coil between the two halves of the capacitor. The whole primary circuit is hot with HV at the PVM12 drive frequency when done like this, and charge pumping will occur with the AV plug from the external capacitance of the whole primary circuit. If my theory is correct then this should give white sparks and charge the primary capacitors with some of that magic/radiant/phase-conjugate special sauce. I designed this arrangement to test my hypothesis. Indeed, I get nice white sparks on the spark gap (not using the PPV here) and the drive seems very strong and stable. The power on the secondary seems increased and I get streamers forming directly into the air, which it never did before even with as wide as I could open the gap and still have it fire from the PVM12.

So now to capture some of that nice energy. Again, if my theory is correct then Lenz's law will be reduced in the coupling between primary and secondary, requiring less drive power from the PVM12 to achieve the same results, but the power in the secondary is all conventional electricity. So now we need to produce an asymmetric situation again with some charging by induction. Again, my hypothesis is that charge acquired in that way will take on some special characteristics. So let's use the supercap bank already at hand with another avramenko, this time to ground, and place it close to the hot end of the coil, about as close as we can get it without streamers jumping from the coil. Result? It's charging of course but slowly, that cap bank holds a lot of energy. Nothing unconventional at this point. The result will be seen when I try to loop it and run the PVM12 from the cap bank. Again, if my theory is correct then Lenz's law will be reduced in the first transformer the energy comes into, in this case the flyback within the PVM12, causing reduced drive power. Then that goes into the AV plug to charge the primary circuit, and so on around back in a loop. If the power gain is sufficient and the current delivered to the supercap bank by charge pumping from ground is sufficient to run the PVM12 drive circuitry, it should self-run continuously in the looped configuration.

On close inspection this configuration is essentially Bruce's schematic, just with a standard step-up Tesla resonator secondary. Pulling charges from the atmosphere to charge the primary side capacitor, then use the secondary to pump charge into a supercap bank for looping. It's running now but I can't stay with it continuously because of the ozone buildup in a small space. I discharged the supercaps completely before starting, so it will take a while for them to reach a voltage high enough to run the PVM12.

[ricards]

observations and questions

@ tswift
Is that a hairpin configuration?..

Wont it rupture the dielectric of that supercaps by charging it with high voltage?.. those are only rated @ 1.5v (9 volts in series?) just a question..

On your theory about it flowing backwards in time, It kind-of confusing.. I understood it better when you relate it to lending money and spending .
I believe its better explained how tesla explained it.

"Whatever electricity may be, it is a fact that it behaves like an incompressible fluid, " I understood this as wherever the flow is coming from, If it flows through your coils, somewhere somehow It will flow out from your coils, now if your insulation is real good and it flows at the start of your coil, and flows out at the end you have electricity is it not?.. this is what I'm thinking.

and on your Observation on Capacitor/Batteries charging up near a high voltage oscillation. I've found a close resemblance to don smith statement.

"It is found that creating a dipole and Inserting Capacitor at right angle to the current flow, allows magnetic waves to changes back to useful electrical (coulumbs) energy."

I'm starting to understand why coils are also capacitors and why so many turns generate more voltage as they are like capacitors in series. If this is true why not have many coils on a high voltage oscillation field enough to fill the whole area? a wild guess.

@soundiceuk & bruce
From what I understood, You guys are suggesting to extract free ions (free electrons,.. whatever it is) from the air to ground (or ground to ground), are you encouraging people to Invoke an Electron Avalanche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche). Through a PPV, an Antenna and Good grounding (by providing a least resistive path to the earth) how can free Ions collected by antenna through PPV go to ground if there is no physical connection? are the schematics on on-going revision?. and how come you are suggesting supercap banks to collect energy at the secondary rather than High voltage low farad caps as what don smith have used?. wont it just spark its way through the dielectric?.

I hope you could answer my questions.

[Mwtj]

@ tswift
Is that a hairpin configuration?..

Wont it rupture the dielectric of that supercaps by charging it with high voltage?.. those are only rated @ 1.5v (9 volts in series?) just a question..

On your theory about it flowing backwards in time, It kind-of confusing.. I understood it better when you relate it to lending money and spending .
I believe its better explained how tesla explained it.

"Whatever electricity may be, it is a fact that it behaves like an incompressible fluid, " I understood this as wherever the flow is coming from, If it flows through your coils, somewhere somehow It will flow out from your coils, now if your insulation is real good and it flows at the start of your coil, and flows out at the end you have electricity is it not?.. this is what I'm thinking.

and on your Observation on Capacitor/Batteries charging up near a high voltage oscillation. I've found a close resemblance to don smith statement.

"It is found that creating a dipole and Inserting Capacitor at right angle to the current flow, allows magnetic waves to changes back to useful electrical (coulumbs) energy."

I'm starting to understand why coils are also capacitors and why so many turns generate more voltage as they are like capacitors in series. If this is true why not have many coils on a high voltage oscillation field enough to fill the whole area? a wild guess.

@soundiceuk & bruce
From what I understood, You guys are suggesting to extract free ions (free electrons,.. whatever it is) from the air to ground (or ground to ground), are you encouraging people to Invoke an Electron Avalanche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche). Through a PPV, an Antenna and Good grounding (by providing a least resistive path to the earth) how can free Ions collected by antenna through PPV go to ground if there is no physical connection? are the schematics on on-going revision?. and how come you are suggesting supercap banks to collect energy at the secondary rather than High voltage low farad caps as what don smith have used?. wont it just spark its way through the dielectric?.

I hope you could answer my questions.

While using the dynatron circuit. The high voltage low farad capacitors charged faster and higher voltage with the circuit than directly connected to the flyback. They even overcharged. 4kV 2uf oil capacitor with 8kV charge. The secondary voltage after diodes was about 5kV dc.

This all with the same input.

On the dielectric. I used 4400uf 500v capacitors with 10kV without breaking the dielectric. Charging them slowly to 300 volts. . Even used a 1F 12v booster cap. Did not charge much but did not break. Guess we need to offer up a supercapacitor.

Just stating. I think there is a explanation for all of this but i do not have all the answers.

[ricards]

This all with the same input.

On the dielectric. I used 4400uf 500v capacitors with 10kV without breaking the dielectric. Charging them slowly to 300 volts. . Even used a 1F 12v booster cap. Did not charge much but did not break. Guess we need to offer up a supercapacitor.

Just stating. I think there is a explanation for all of this but i do not have all the answers.

Hi Mwtj,

Yes I can see that we can charge mostly any capacitor with high voltage, but how can we be sure its not rupturing the dielectric inside? and shorting all that we are storing into the capacitors? I'm actually stuck with this problem. I noticed a degrade in performance when I have used the capacitor in high voltage experiments, when I opened it I found a black burnt spot and I think that is where the arcing happens,

[tesluh]

So let's use the supercap bank already at hand with another avramenko, this time to ground, and place it close to the hot end of the coil, about as close as we can get it without streamers jumping from the coil. .

What would happen if you put the load you were trying to charge in series on the tesla coil secondary ground wire as opposed to the top end of the secondary? Just an idea I would try myself if I had a functioning tesla coil here...I have a slayer tesla coil sitting here but not up and running yet.

[tswift]

What would happen if you put the load you were trying to charge in series on the tesla coil secondary ground wire as opposed to the top end of the secondary? Just an idea I would try myself if I had a functioning tesla coil here...I have a slayer tesla coil sitting here but not up and running yet.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea and a configuration I don't think I have ever played around with. There are certainly current pulses at low voltage going back and forth on the ground wire lead at the base of the coil, that's how the slayer exciter works (because you use them to drive the base of a transistor directly).

I had to shut down the experiment earlier, I was uneasy leaving it running unattended. There were enough streamers coming from the top turn of the coil into the air that with the exposed cardboard tube it could have been a fire hazard so I shut it down. The supercaps had only charged to about 2V over several hours, so pretty slow charging. I doubt it's enough current to run the PVM12 even if there were some magic happening and the PVM12 was seeing essentially a "no-load" condition. In Bruce's configuration the step-down coil provides current to charge the cap bank directly instead of using charging by induction like I was with this setup. Charging from ground that way is quite power inefficient. I was hoping that having essentially two gain stages that should be producing cold electricity would be useful, but if it can't provide enough current to run the HV supply then it's not going to work. So probably next I will play around with the L1/L2 coils as wound on the cardboard tubes for Bruce's device, but powering the primary the way I was for this experiment, with AC through an avramenko.

Once before, several years back, I saw on the bench what I considered a clear anomaly. Over my time experimenting I have seen some interesting stuff even though I've never been able to clearly and unmistakably measure a power gain. I have seen self-charging happen briefly and once I got shocked by a discharged and grounded cap. Anyway, the experiment I was running at the time was almost identical to this setup. I had a smaller 12V car neon sign transformer (the 35 KHz kind), going through an AV plug to charge a cap (a surplus microwave oven cap of around 1 uF), and then a spark gap to discharge the cap when it reached a couple thousand volts. The spark gap would short the cap into a coil, which in this case was a large powdered iron toroid I have used from time to time for experiments. With a bigger cap like this the spark gap was only firing a couple of times a second, with very loud pops. Within a few seconds of turning on the NST I heard a strange hissing noise so I stopped the experiment. I double-checked all the connections but nothing seemed wrong. I ran it again with the same result. The hissing seemed to be coming from the toroid so I turned off the lights (this was at night thankfully) and finally I spotted the problem. It wasn't coming from the toroid itself, it was a teeny tiny wire crumb on the mat next to the toroid. Just a piece from some finely stranded wire, a single strand maybe a millimeter long and a few millimeters away from the toroid. It was glowing and spitting out little sparks and hissing for some seconds after I cut off the NST. Now, I'm sure all of you here already know that with a toroid the magnetic field is completely contained inside the toroid (technically only complete if a couple conditions are met), so there was no way this could be related to magnetic induction. The HV pulses going through the coil somehow did it even without contact. My workbench is covered in an antistatic mat that is conductive although with fairly high resistivity, and is terminated into an earth ground. So what caused this effect? Is this the static charging effect sometimes associated with radiant energy in some of the literature? I'm not sure, but it was odd enough that I clearly remember the setup even now quite some time later. It was almost identical to what I'm doing now except that now I have a better driver, better diodes, and better caps, and I'm using an air-core coil instead of the big toroid.

Again, just following through this hypothesis to its logical conclusions, then charging a cap with HV AC through an avramenko is somewhat analogous (at AC) to what Bruce's device does at DC with the antenna and ground. You create a dipole and then capture the INCOMING charges from the surrounding environment which are counter to your dipole. If I am correct then these charges should be different than ordinary electricity, and generating them is as easy as what I'm doing with an AV plug. It's not that the AV plug is magic in any way by itself whether being used from the HV source or from ground, it's the nature of the incoming charges. And it's only a theory, but one that's simple enough to test. Certainly my little benchtop Tesla coil seems improved by being powered this way, but there are plenty of other possible explanations for this so it's far from conclusive. Measuring a power gain and ultimately running looped will be the real proof.

[dragon]

Instead of trying to charge a massive bank of supercaps why not charge a cap that contains all the energy needed for one pulse of the HVM. Charging large capacitors takes huge currents to make any real difference in voltage gain and wastes lots of energy.

If the resonant circuit is running at 500,000 hz and the HVM is running at 75,000 hz then you have an almost 7:1 difference. That is, the resonant circuit is ringing 7 times between each pulse of the HVM. The charging cap only needs to contain enough energy to fire the next ringing sequence... the charged cap then needs to achieve a 14 -17 volt charge in 1/75,000th of a second - you have 7 pulses to achieve this charge.

If the cap is to small the voltage will rise beyond your needs and likely destroy propitiatory electronics , if it's to big it will never meet your needs - find the perfect balance...

A small experiment... take one turn of heavy wire ( 10 ga or larger ) and clip a light bulb to the 2 ends and move it up and down your tesla arrangement... are you getting enough current to light the bulb? Is the voltage enough to make it bright? If you have a variable power supply you can take a mental note of its intensity and power it to match your mental image - not super accurate but gives you a rough idea of the energy available.

If the bulb light's but isn't bright then you'll need more turns to increase the voltage but with each turn you diminish the current equally. For instance lets say you have a tesla coil of 500 turns with 20kv surging through it. Each turn would represent 40 volts (+ or -) equally if the current flowing through the coil is say 1ma and you could put a clamp meter around the entire bundle it would read 500ma or 1/2 amp turn. Your 1 turn coil should represent the 40 volts per turn on the secondary and the 1/2 amp/turn not including any losses from the transformation.

Since there are always losses you need to find the difference of that your recycling from the circuit and the overall losses. So if your circuit is using 20 watts and you can successfully harvest 18 watts then you need an outside source to make up the 2 watts lost to achieve unity.

In this example you have 7 cycles to achieve 1 pulse.... Time is unity...

[dragon]

Referring to Bruce's original circuit (v5.4.7) you should be able to charge C1 to a high voltage and remove the HVM entirely. Once the dipole is created, in theory, C2 can be charged and discharged indefinitely without depleting C1. The power achieved in the circuit is based solely on the ability of nature to neutralize the imbalance continuously.

In reality, C1 will loose some of its charge to the environment ( nature again ) so you have to maintain the dipole with an external source.

Now, if you think of the coils and circuit as a crystal radio receiver ( receiving an AM station ) operating in the 500khz range you can tune it to your local station and it should oscillate freely without any assistance of another energy source.

The pulses created through the PPV, timed to match the oscillations or a harmonic of the receiver, acts as an amplifier. Think in terms of the Armstrong "tickler" circuit to amplify a signal.

Bruce needs to jump in here and fill the knowledge gaps so people have a better understanding of what's going on to make possible a successful build. Do I need to email you a smack on the forehead?

[soundiceuk]

It is written clearly in the document Bruce wrote.

No mention of some of the words others have used to describe it recently.

Use Bruce's document as a reference.

If you want to know what a word, sentence or paragraph means from Bruce's document please ask.

I know it frustrates Bruce greatly when substitute words are used to describe what he has already written.

A lot of effort has been put into that document. Thirty years plus of research and development.

[Wistiti]

It is written clearly in the document Bruce wrote.

No mention of some of the words others have used to describe it recently.

Use Bruce's document as a reference.

If you want to know what a word, sentence or paragraph means from Bruce's document please ask.

I know it frustrates Bruce greatly when substitute words are used to describe what he has already written.

A lot of effort has been put into that document. Thirty years plus of research and development.

Good point!!!
Is there some people still working to replicate the exact device Bruce have share..?

I will ,as soon as i'll recieve all the part i need to do this.

I think the first thing to do is to replicate exactly as shown in the pdf. After that, if it work as they say, we can theorise and try different way to acheive or improve the result.

[dragon]

As you know, Paul, I don't blindly follow - I do my own work, build my own knowledge based on these experiences. What I share is also based on 30+ years of research and development - both Bruce and I are as old as dirt although I carry a few extra years being born shortly after Tesla died.

If you find I'm not being helpful simply say so outright and I will leave. I have no need to be here other than entertainment and/or helping someone out now and then.

[soundiceuk]

Apologies. Text can sound very blunt and emotionless sometimes.

I guess emoji type pictures help here.

What I wrote wasn't a dig at anyone.

Everyone here has some experience to offer.


I haven't got internet at home and I'm trying to do everything on my phone but struggling.


I can multitask on a PC but can't on a phone so my communication isn't brilliant lately.


Dragon, you are extremely welcome here and your wisdom appreciated.

This thread seems to attract the best of the best and doesn't suffer with the egos of some other threads.

I am greatful for this.

The technology is still yet to be proven by a third party but Mwtj is the closest. Tswift coming up behind him. Serendipitor has freezing weather so Wistiti might catch up.

Just keep going 😎

Your all doing great!

[soundiceuk]

@soundiceuk & bruce
From what I understood, You guys are suggesting to extract free ions (free electrons,.. whatever it is) from the air to ground (or ground to ground), are you encouraging people to Invoke an Electron Avalanche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche). Through a PPV, an Antenna and Good grounding (by providing a least resistive path to the earth) how can free Ions collected by antenna through PPV go to ground if there is no physical connection? are the schematics on on-going revision?. and how come you are suggesting supercap banks to collect energy at the secondary rather than High voltage low farad caps as what don smith have used?. wont it just spark its way through the dielectric?.

I hope you could answer my questions.

The circuit operation is explained in Bruce's document.

The proposed circuits are educational circuits to allow experimenters to evaluate and understand the basics of what Bruce has termed 'Radioionics'.

Radioionics is ion circuits.

Electronics is electron circuits.


Bruce's circuits are a combination of both.


There are more advanced circuits but let's see what the good folk here at energetic can achieve with the basic circuits.

For example: there is no point a beginner trying to build a 500,000,000v Tesla coil. Instead they learn by building a joule thief or slayer circuit and then maybe a small Tesla coil.

So the best thing is to build and understand the basic circuits and grasp a feel for what Radioionics is.

The super capacitor role will become clear when we have a successful replication.

You shouldn't have to wait long.

Don's capacitors and circuits were lethal!

Bruce's circuits are much safer!

[soundiceuk]

Bruce's actual R&D is 43 years old!

Older than me! Haha