Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[dragon]

I couldn't say for sure, they generally charge an output cap to store energy until it can breach the gap. You might be able to power it up quickly, ( tap the input with a battery ) not long enough for it to charge completely. Then place a neon bulb across the leads - this should discharge it to a level it could be measured with a conventional meter.

Edit; It occurred to me that it might use a smaller cap to drive a trigger transformer on the output - I've seen different variations of the circuit. If this is the case you might not be able to get any kind of measure without the use of some HV equipment. ( similar to a camera flash circuit ). at 400kv I suspect this is the case....

You might want to be prepared to sacrifice a meter for the cause.... one of those cheap 5 buck meters might suffice...

[Wistiti]

This type of HV module will not hold up to continuous use.

Yes,I know, Dragon also say the same... but im just curious if is there an easy way to know witch output leads are the + and -...

[radioionics]

Hi guys!
What you think of this HV module?
https://www.amazon.ca/CNBTR-Power-Mo.../dp/B01969RF6C

This type of HV module will not hold up to continuous use.

[radioionics]

Moving forward with my obsession and a bunch of new tests... Originally my question to myself was why would there be a power draw on an open circuit, that is, the same draw that would be present in a closed loop. One would expect to see an "idle" draw on the transformer if it was an open circuit. The reduction in power when using the ant/grd then could be explained by the capacitive coupling. Calculating the reactive resistance showed that it was indeed running in a closed loop. The ant/grd having a 13kohm resistance gave a clear indication of what I saw as the drop in power consumption between this and the direct connection. With a 13k resistor in the closed loop circuit it performed like the ant/grd circuit. So what, if anything, is to be gained here?

I set out to build an artificial environment to replace the ant/grd yet still maintain the capacitive effect I was seeing. Thus the tube and wire - large surface area acting as a ground and small surface area as the antenna... the infamous "Ion Valve". Worked perfectly with slightly less input consumption. The capacitance measured in at around 55 pf giving me an over all resistance of around 75k. This corresponded closely to what I calculated. So then, what is the key mechanism that "brings in", "attracts", or otherwise supplies energy in excess of the original input?

In pondering this I also realized that with the added resistance ( ant/grd, ion valve ) there was an RC time constant involved here as well - a tiny delay in response, which may or may not have relevance..... The next several experiments ended in complete failure - the goal was to reduce capacitance even farther thus finding a maximum impedance that I could get by with that would still allow the system to run, hoping for a reduced input requirement yet still provide a reasonable output. Obviously I went to far and it simply became an open circuit once again...

I fashioned 2 plates that could be adjusted for distance, one large one small - quickie calculations on distance and size ( overall a "best guess"). At a gap of around 1.25 " there was noticeable activity in the gap, at just over 1" it flashed and maintained an arc. So, alright we had an output and all was running as expected, only a slight drop in input requirement which was disheartening, it dawned on me that the transformer couldn't do this on it's own. I'm using an 8kv transformer throttled by a 15uf cap so it's most likely running in the range of 4-5kv. The gap being an inch or more indicates a voltage far in excess of what the transformer alone would do.

Ending this portion of my investigation I observed; No energy in excess of input, nothing to indicate a reduction of input other than the inherent resistance, it functions solely as a closed circuit not as an open circuit... but an interesting development leading to a place to start a new investigation.

*A standalone ION VALVE is no more than a voltage regulator. It can be used to COUPLE with a source of ion potential energy.

[Wistiti]

Hi guys!
What you think of this HV module?
https://www.amazon.ca/CNBTR-Power-Mo.../dp/B01969RF6C

Hi guys!
Does anybody have an idea of how I can determine the + and- leads from the output of these module..?

Thank you!

[Wistiti]

Made a quick test today with poor results.... maybe the snow storm is for something... one good thing is my antenna seem well insulated cause it stay charged even after the unit is disconnected!

[dragon]

Moving forward with my obsession and a bunch of new tests... Originally my question to myself was why would there be a power draw on an open circuit, that is, the same draw that would be present in a closed loop. One would expect to see an "idle" draw on the transformer if it was an open circuit. The reduction in power when using the ant/grd then could be explained by the capacitive coupling. Calculating the reactive resistance showed that it was indeed running in a closed loop. The ant/grd having a 13kohm resistance gave a clear indication of what I saw as the drop in power consumption between this and the direct connection. With a 13k resistor in the closed loop circuit it performed like the ant/grd circuit. So what, if anything, is to be gained here?

I set out to build an artificial environment to replace the ant/grd yet still maintain the capacitive effect I was seeing. Thus the tube and wire - large surface area acting as a ground and small surface area as the antenna... the infamous "Ion Valve". Worked perfectly with slightly less input consumption. The capacitance measured in at around 55 pf giving me an over all resistance of around 75k. This corresponded closely to what I calculated. So then, what is the key mechanism that "brings in", "attracts", or otherwise supplies energy in excess of the original input?

In pondering this I also realized that with the added resistance ( ant/grd, ion valve ) there was an RC time constant involved here as well - a tiny delay in response, which may or may not have relevance..... The next several experiments ended in complete failure - the goal was to reduce capacitance even farther thus finding a maximum impedance that I could get by with that would still allow the system to run, hoping for a reduced input requirement yet still provide a reasonable output. Obviously I went to far and it simply became an open circuit once again...

I fashioned 2 plates that could be adjusted for distance, one large one small - quickie calculations on distance and size ( overall a "best guess"). At a gap of around 1.25 " there was noticeable activity in the gap, at just over 1" it flashed and maintained an arc. So, alright we had an output and all was running as expected, only a slight drop in input requirement which was disheartening, it dawned on me that the transformer couldn't do this on it's own. I'm using an 8kv transformer throttled by a 15uf cap so it's most likely running in the range of 4-5kv. The gap being an inch or more indicates a voltage far in excess of what the transformer alone would do.

Ending this portion of my investigation I observed; No energy in excess of input, nothing to indicate a reduction of input other than the inherent resistance, it functions solely as a closed circuit not as an open circuit... but an interesting development leading to a place to start a new investigation.

[tswift]

Don and I used to talk on the phone at least once a month. I miss the dude. This circuit was Don's way of showing how he drew in energy from what he called the ambient. Some call it the "zero point energy." The energy actually comes from the charged ions that are stored in the atmosphere of the planet.

Looking at the second figure in this document, the one called "Improved Edwin Gray Circuitry", it would seem that the antenna and ground are not, strictly speaking, essential elements for pulling energy from the "ambient" through this method. Based on my own experimentation and knowledge of the Avramenko configuration, I would propose that the capacitance of the entire circuit acts as its own "antenna" when pumping electrons with the AV plug.

I also note that this configuration has a lot in common with what I was trying with my benchtop Tesla coil a couple of pages back in this thread, where I obtained white sparks on the spark gap and it seemed that the coil had increased power (not a direct measurement, just a qualitative observation).

[radioionics]

Ahh, some very interesting circuits! In addition to the ion valves, I find extremely interesting the component marked "ion-gate" in the first schematic. It consists of a capacitor at the HV terminal of a NST and two diodes in the avramenko configuration. It reminds me very much of the Don Smith "Ambient Energy Generator" diagram:

Don and I used to talk on the phone at least once a month. I miss the dude. This circuit was Don's way of showing how he drew in energy from what he called the ambient. Some call it the "zero point energy." The energy actually comes from the charged ions that are stored in the atmosphere of the planet.

[radioionics]

Electrical energy from ambient radiant energy

Here is another ion valve magazine article I found tonite:

http://www.radioionics.com/pdf/Elect...iantEnergy.pdf

[radioionics]

Most excellent Bruce. I've looked at these, and many of your drawings in the past. It appears that I've reproduced a successful "ion valve" then. I believe these have a past much further back than you and I. These are only a few of many I've studied, a couple I've reproduced with some interesting anomalies which I continue to pursue in the ground circuits.

US1220005
US1303730
US1349103
US1349104

We are still overlooking something.... this nagging quest I'm currently on is beyond the valve itself. This crosses over to both our works and I know your just as frustrated as I am at times. It's at the point of total frustration where we finally ask the right question, in that moment, the answer becomes obvious. I'm currently there....

I thank you for the acknowledgement.

These are good underground antennas. I've seen these many moons ago, but I appreciate you posting them.

I found this more recent patent in my search process: US3183510

[tswift]

Those are just beautiful !!! Do they really need to be potted? Or, is this just a precaution...

They come with a spec sheet noting that they should be potted for anything close to full voltage output, which is theoretically 360KV (less in practice of course). Air breakdown will occur with a unit this short. I'm sure you could drive them at a much more moderate voltage and get away with it open-air, but I just want to go ahead and encapsulate them and not take the risk. Plus I want it to look cool. Like I said, it doesn't HAVE to look like a prop from a sci-fi movie, I just WANT it to....

I could build a multiplier myself but obviously it would end up much bigger than this. With these small units I can put another daughterboard right above the HVM board to mount these two, so the hot ends feed directly to the board with the PPV's on it.

[dragon]

Back to experimenting. My multiplier stacks are in, I bought two of the pre-made 12 stage stacks from amazing1.com. It's unlikely I can design and build anything as compact and good looking, and if you price out the components the cost isn't bad either. I want to use two, one positive and one negative polarity. Using either the PVM12 or the ZVS to drive it (with a suitable AC flyback transformer), the driver can sit at near neutral potential while the tips of the two stacks are at high potential (one positive and one negative). The multipliers are only offered in a positive polarity, but after looking at it a while I realized it should be possible to flip one around and desolder one diode from the end, resolder it onto the opposite end, and have the correct arrangement for negative polarity. This took only a few minutes to do, you can compare the two to see the results.

To get anywhere close to the full potential capability of the multiplier (30KV per stage) it will be necessary to encapsulate it in something insulating. Oil and paraffin wax are the two usual choices, but since I like everything to look good I wanted to pot it in acrylic. I bought an acrylic tube with an inside diameter (1") almost exactly matching the width of the stack, and I have some casting resin on the way. My plan is to vacuum encapsulate each of the two into a single unit with an integral protection resistor. Unfortunately, if a diode or cap goes bad there won't be any way to fix it, hopefully that won't happen. I haven't attempted this before so we will see what kind of results I can get. I will have to fabricate some end caps out of acrylic sheet and make sure the bottom is sealed liquid-tight before pouring the resin.

When it's done, even a modest 10KVAC drive voltage from the HVM should be able to get all the voltage my coil and other wires can handle.

Those are just beautiful !!! Do they really need to be potted? Or, is this just a precaution...

[dragon]

*This is an ION VALVE. I discovered it back around the year 1980.

I just did a quick google search and found this interesting ion valve history:

How to Build an Efficient Alternative Energy Device

Most excellent Bruce. I've looked at these, and many of your drawings in the past. It appears that I've reproduced a successful "ion valve" then. I believe these have a past much further back than you and I. These are only a few of many I've studied, a couple I've reproduced with some interesting anomalies which I continue to pursue in the ground circuits.

US1220005
US1303730
US1349103
US1349104

We are still overlooking something.... this nagging quest I'm currently on is beyond the valve itself. This crosses over to both our works and I know your just as frustrated as I am at times. It's at the point of total frustration where we finally ask the right question, in that moment, the answer becomes obvious. I'm currently there....

[tswift]

Back to experimenting. My multiplier stacks are in, I bought two of the pre-made 12 stage stacks from amazing1.com. It's unlikely I can design and build anything as compact and good looking, and if you price out the components the cost isn't bad either. I want to use two, one positive and one negative polarity. Using either the PVM12 or the ZVS to drive it (with a suitable AC flyback transformer), the driver can sit at near neutral potential while the tips of the two stacks are at high potential (one positive and one negative). The multipliers are only offered in a positive polarity, but after looking at it a while I realized it should be possible to flip one around and desolder one diode from the end, resolder it onto the opposite end, and have the correct arrangement for negative polarity. This took only a few minutes to do, you can compare the two to see the results.

To get anywhere close to the full potential capability of the multiplier (30KV per stage) it will be necessary to encapsulate it in something insulating. Oil and paraffin wax are the two usual choices, but since I like everything to look good I wanted to pot it in acrylic. I bought an acrylic tube with an inside diameter (1") almost exactly matching the width of the stack, and I have some casting resin on the way. My plan is to vacuum encapsulate each of the two into a single unit with an integral protection resistor. Unfortunately, if a diode or cap goes bad there won't be any way to fix it, hopefully that won't happen. I haven't attempted this before so we will see what kind of results I can get. I will have to fabricate some end caps out of acrylic sheet and make sure the bottom is sealed liquid-tight before pouring the resin.

When it's done, even a modest 10KVAC drive voltage from the HVM should be able to get all the voltage my coil and other wires can handle.