Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[drak]

Where did that drawing come from Drak ? Are you sure it is drawn by Don ?
It looks like it was modified by someone else.

I haven't even tried a parallel gap yet I keep distracting myself having fun.

The frequency I'm pulsing the ignition coil at is 1.4 Khz and 2.8 Khz when I
flick the switch, the input is barely 200 Ma at the lower frequency input. The
coils themselves are much higher frequency but the accumulated charge
breaks down the gap when the spark fires, there are two accumulation points,
one in the primary caps and one in the toroid terminal. If I increase power to
the ignition coil by increasing PW the spark gap frequency increases in tones.

I estimated the voltage of the sparks to be about 20 Kv in that video, but
they can get a fair bit bigger if I use just one coil ground connected, I was
discharging HV caps charged from the second Tesla transformer's output coil
through a neon while I was doing that also.

Cheers

Pretty cool! I'd like to have a tesla coil to play with. Maybe one day. So what do you think makes it so that you can't feel the sparks?

I got it from here http://www.free-energy-info.com/Smith.pdf However it might not be from don. Was just checking it out.

[dragon]

I'm not certain Drak but I think with a parallel spark gap there is no diode.

I think the cap is in series and the spark gap in parallel like in the drawing on this page. EDIT: scroll down below the table of figure's.
Tesla Coil Design Guide

Oh and on a side note it seems these sparks from this experimental Tesla coil setup don't hurt or tingle, at least not until I use more than 500 Ma on the input.
Cold Sparks.wmv - YouTube

Cheers

I've seen similar results with my 8.5" diameter coil wound with 8ga wire...

windfilter's Channel - YouTube

[Farmhand]

I've seen similar results with my 8.5" diameter coil wound with 8ga wire...

windfilter's Channel - YouTube

Wow cool, that sounds like sweet music. I think I can't feel it because the
power is low, even though the voltage is high, but that's just my hunch, it does
make my fingertips smell a bit like aluminium dust (metalic) after doing it for a
while. And if I up the power so the arc frequency is also high then it turns
nasty. It's funny because if I touch the spark gap it nails me good.
Even after I turn it off if the caps are still charged.

Cheers

Oh I did notice that the arc goes from me to the coil. This is obvious when
the plasma forks and spreads towards the coil away from me. I think it looks
backwards.

..

[Farmhand]

Hey Drak, I wouldn't trust that document all too much, there seems to be a
lot of dubious drawings added as peoples opinions of how they think it could
work.
I've gone right off that book. I don't think he did himself any favors including
drawings of NST's with the dioides going from the center tap to the two NST
outputs (the coil ends). They are around the wrong way surely. I know the
drawing you posted isn't like that but some in the book are.

I see two drawing there with the diodes around the wrong way. I
remember looking at those some time ago and wondering "why".

I think there is only one drawing for Dons device and it's primary circuit has a
series gap on the negative side of L1, a parallel cap and diodes facing the
correct way. As far as the primary circuit go's it works.

A discussion about the Kelly book.
"Free Energy" scams discussed - All About Circuits Forum

Cheers

[dragon]

The first time I experienced that effect was with a solar powered passive spark gap oscillator driving a 500 turn large diameter coil. When ever I was in close proximity of the coil I could hear a buzzing sound, being outside I didn't see the blue arcs. Investigating it further and shading the area I could see the bluish arcs coming from my fingers. I was quite amazed at that, up till then I had only heard about it. I've also heard that lengthy playing in that type of discharge can cause nerve damage - I don't know how true that is but it might be worth heeding the warning until more information is available. I've played with this in several coils since with no damage as yet. Although, which might not be related, a lesion that was on my hand for a long time has since disappeared. Interesting therapy if in fact the short "play times" in the energetic fields has had this kind of effect.

To much fun !

[Farmhand]

The first time I experienced that effect was with a solar powered passive spark gap oscillator driving a 500 turn large diameter coil. When ever I was in close proximity of the coil I could hear a buzzing sound, being outside I didn't see the blue arcs. Investigating it further and shading the area I could see the bluish arcs coming from my fingers. I was quite amazed at that, up till then I had only heard about it. I've also heard that lengthy playing in that type of discharge can cause nerve damage - I don't know how true that is but it might be worth heeding the warning until more information is available. I've played with this in several coils since with no damage as yet. Although, which might not be related, a lesion that was on my hand for a long time has since disappeared. Interesting therapy if in fact the short "play times" in the energetic fields has had this kind of effect.

To much fun !

Yes you're right, caution should be a rule and I think short plays are best.
I remember a warning in a Tesla lecture about some problems from lower
frequencies, I'll find it and post it.

I just turned the power up and got booted by the first arc from the terminal
about 30 mm long but you're also right there is plasma forming before that
happens.

Page 318 of this book. Book Link.

Were the potentials sufficiently high and the frequency
of the vibration rather low, the skin would probably be ruptured
under the tremendous strain, and the blood would rush out
with great force in the form of fine spray or jet so thin as to be
invisible, just as oil will when placed on the positive terminal of
a Holtz machine.

Sounds nasty.

[bitlotbit]

Hi,

I have no precise formula (not yet ) to calculate coil configurations.
Induction receiving coils on MHz frequency should have large surface (skin effect).

What setup are you going for?
Type A:[CW,CCW] or
Type B:[6A reverse Tesla coil] ?

Your calculated value example Type A:
Say HV L1 input 2000V. 5 turns; L2 40 turns (each or total {CW,CCW}?)

2000V / 5 = 400V/turn transfer to L2. (40 * 400) = 16KV AC Vpp !!!
So 8KV DC after diode bridge and double frequency on capacitor bank.


Type A:
L1 1/4 length of L2.
So L2 is split {CW and CCW}. 2*1/2 lengths, total full wave.

Type B:
L1 1/4 length of L2.
L2 is full wave. (this coil maintains resonance on FULL WAVE ???)
6A is 1/4, 1/2, 1 length ??? (resonance maintained coil) Reverse Tesla Coil

Frequency depends on capacitor bank storage, to keep it full ???



Best regards

I was thinking to try Don's setup first get an idea of what is working and what is not. And then try the reverse Tesla setup for the coils.
But i would prefer not to try in random the cables awg but instead try to calculate what is needed according to working scenarios i've read, i.e. 1/4 the length of L1 of L2 - same weight.
When i get the coils then calculating the Caps for resonance will be a matter of correct measuring the inductance (with a LZR meter) and doing some math (+experimenting).

I needed some input from the people that have tried the above.

Regarding skin effect, would n't be better to mitigate skin effect (counter EMF) in order to get higher EMF using Litz wire or thinner (higher value awg)?

According to : Wire and Cable in order to get no skin effect at the frequencies we are talking about here (30kHz) a value of probably 42 awg (that's hair 0.07874 mm diameter) will be better for the higher frequencies.

[Farmhand]

I was thinking to try Don's setup first get an idea of what is working and what is not. And then try the reverse Tesla setup for the coils.
But i would prefer not to try in random the cables awg but instead try to calculate what is needed according to working scenarios i've read, i.e. 1/4 the length of L1 of L2 - same weight.
When i get the coils then calculating the Caps for resonance will be a matter of correct measuring the inductance (with a LZR meter) and doing some math (+experimenting).

I needed some input from the people that have tried the above.

Regarding skin effect, would n't be better to mitigate skin effect (counter EMF) in order to get higher EMF using Litz wire or thinner (higher value awg)?

According to : Wire and Cable in order to get no skin effect at the frequencies we are talking about here (30kHz) a value of probably 42 awg (that's hair 0.07874 mm diameter) will be better for the higher frequencies.

I have not yet seen a working Don Smith device which provides a measured sine wave output through a battery of bulbs or any other load.

The 30 Khz or so is the frequency of the NST, the air core coils themselves will have a frequency in the Mhz range.

How did you come to the conclusion the skin effect is CEMF ?

Cheers

[bitlotbit]

I have not yet seen a working Don Smith device which provides a measured sine wave output through a battery of bulbs or any other load.

The 30 Khz or so is the frequency of the NST, the air core coils themselves will have a frequency in the Mhz range.

How did you come to the conclusion the skin effect is CEMF ?

Cheers

In order to calculate the caps for L1 iam using the output frequency from the NST which is 30Khz. I thought that was the frequency that will frive the L1 coil. Ami correct to understand that the caps will pulse the L1 coil to the Mhz range? or else how the coil will get to that Mhz frequency?

Skin effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The counter EMF is strongest at the center of the conductor, and forces the conducting electrons to the outside of the conductor, as shown in the diagram on the right."

[Farmhand]

Skin effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The counter EMF is strongest at the center of the conductor, and forces the conducting electrons to the outside of the conductor, as shown in the diagram on the right."

Yes I see, thanks for that, I just learned something, I was confused by the
way you wrote it, I thought you were saying that the skin effect was the
actual CEMF, technically the CEMF causes the skin effect (going by the wiki)
and the CEMF will always be relative to the EMF as it is it's counterpart,
reducing skin effect will not reduce CEMF because if reducing skin effect
increases EMF the CEMF will also increase. Small point. But I think it to be
true.

Regarding skin effect, would n't be better to mitigate skin effect (counter EMF) in order to get higher EMF using Litz wire or thinner (higher value awg)?

Maybe it's better to have the current near the outside of the conductor
anyway as long as the current is not restricted too much. Not sure.

Is there a benefit to the induction if the current is more to the center of the
wire ? If so then litz wire is a good idea.

Where were you thinking of using the Litz wire just in the primary ?

Did you consider a large diameter tubular conductor ?

Litz is probably much easier to use though.

Cheers

[bitlotbit]

Yes I see, thanks for that, I just learned something, I was confused by the
way you wrote it, I thought you were saying that the skin effect was the
actual CEMF, technically the CEMF causes the skin effect (going by the wiki)
and the CEMF will always be relative to the EMF as it is it's counterpart,
reducing skin effect will not reduce CEMF because if reducing skin effect
increases EMF the CEMF will also increase. Small point. But I think it to be
true.



Maybe it's better to have the current near the outside of the conductor
anyway as long as the current is not restricted too much. Not sure.

Is there a benefit to the induction if the current is more to the center of the
wire ? If so then litz wire is a good idea.

Where were you thinking of using the Litz wire just in the primary ?

Did you consider a large diameter tubular conductor ?

Litz is probably much easier to use though.

Cheers

I think a large diameter tubular conductor will be something like high value awg in terms of skin effect, since the μ Permeability (electromagnetism) of air in the tube is higher than Copper and it will yield smaller skin depth value (δ). So yes it must be a better solution for this.

[bitlotbit]

I think a large diameter tubular conductor will be something like high value awg in terms of skin effect, since the μ Permeability (electromagnetism) of air in the tube is higher than Copper and it will yield smaller skin depth value (δ). So yes it must be a better solution for this.

Is there any chance that we might have an Arc inside this kind of conductor?

[Farmhand]

No I don't see how that would be possible, with litz all the adjacent wires would
all be at the same voltage, same with the tube it would be no more likely to arc
inside than outside, I don't think.

[MonsieurM]

Farmhand, I know you are quite interested in books on electricity of the Same period as Tesla

I think i found a book you might like along with everyone else

ELECTRIC POWER TRANSMISSION
A PRACTICAL TREATISE FOR PRACTICAL MEN 1906
LOUIS BELL, Ph. D.

Full text of "Electric power transmission; a practical treatise for practical men"

This volume is designed to set forth in the simplest possible
manner, the fundamental facts concerning present practice in
electrical power transmission.

Busy men have little time txy spend in discussing theories of
which the practical results are known, or in following the
derivation of formula) which no one disputes. The author has
therefore endeavored, in introducing such theoretical consid-
erations as are necessary, to explain them in the most direct
way practicable; using proximate methods of proof when pre-
cise and general ones would lead to mathematical complica-
tions without altering the conclusion for the purpose in hand,
and stating only the results of investigation when the processes
are undesfrably complicated.

Now, if this pendulum be given a twist it will oscillate at
constant frequency imtil the friction gradually brings it to
rest with oscillations of steadily decreasing amplitude. If,
however, at the end of each complete swing it should receive a
slight push, its oscillations would continue and would increase
in amplitude up to a limit set by the frictional resistance.
The condition for such permanent increase of amplitude is
that the frequency of the pushes must coincide with the period
of the pendulum. In the electrical case, resonance thus


156 ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION OF POWER,

occurs when the frequency and the time constant of the cir-
cuit are equal. Further, maintaining our auxiliary pushes at
their original frequency, suppose / to be decreased by taking
weight off A progressively. As the time constant of the
pendulum thus diminished a point would be found, and that
very soon, at which resonance would cease, and the same
result would follow increase of /, so that when the circuit
begins to get out of tune the resonance soon becomes rather
trivial. If, however, the pushes were supplemented by others
of 3, 5, 7, etc., times the frequency, corresponding to the
harmonics found in an ordinary alternating circuit, new points
of resonance would appear when the period of A assumed
corresponding values.

As to the magnitude of the resonant effect, in the torsional
pendulum case the amplitude evidently increases with the
strength of the pushes, their absolute frequency, which mea-
sures the energy supplied, and the moment of inertia of A^
which stores this energy. It decreases in virtue of the fric-
tional resistance. Corresponding reasoning holds in the elec-
trical case, and to a first approximation the E. M. F. in a
completely resonant circuit is

in which E is the impressed E. M. F. concerned, L the induc-
tance in henrys, R the resistance in ohms, and n the frequency.
In case of resonance with harmonics, n and E refer to the
frequency and magnitude of the harmonic implicated, and E'
becomes a resonant component of the E. M. F. wave. This
subject will be discussed more at length in Chapter XIII.

We have now glanced at the most striking characteristics
of alternating currents — those concerned with the phenomena
of inductance and capacity.

It rcmains to note very briefly some other physical proper-
ties that are of practical importance.

The most important single property of alternating current
is the ease with which it can be changed inductively from one
voltage to another. If a circuit carrying such a current is put
in inductive relation with another circuit as in Fig. 4, Chapter

I, the electro-magnetic stresses set up by the first circuit can be
utilized to produce alternating current of any desired voltage
in the second circuit. The details of the operation will be
taken up later; suffice it to say here that it is essentially the
transformation of the electro-magnetic energy due to one
circuit into electrical energy in another circuit.

Alternating currents can be regulated in amount by putting
inductance in the circuit without losing more than a very
trifling amount of energy. This very property, however, is
troublesome when an alternating current is used for magnetiz-
ing purposes. It is very difficult to get a large current to flow
around a magnet core because of the high inductance, and even
then the magnetic and other losses in the core are serious imless
great care is taken. These difficulties have stood in the way
of getting a good alternating motor until within the past few
years, and even now such motors have to be designed and con-
structed with the greatest care to avoid trouble from induc-
tance and iron losses. For some classes of work, such as teleg-
raphy and electrolytic operations, the alternating current is
ill suited save under special conditions and with special appar-
atus. For the general purposes of electrical power transmis-
sion it is singularly well fitted, from the great ease with which
transfonnations of voltage can be made, certain very valuable
properties of the modem alternating motor, and the great
simplicity and efficiency with which regulation can be efifected.
The only inconvenience attending transmission by alter-
nating current is that incurred when direct current must for
one reason, or another, be supplied. This is in a fair way to
be greatly reduced by both increasing use of alternating cur-
rent in distribution, and by improvement in apparatus for
obtaining direct current from an alternating source.

One of the Chapter covered is:

Properties of Direct and Alternating Current Arcs . . . 592

[T-1000]

Selfrunning Free Energy devices up to 5 KW from Tariel Kapanadze ->

International Friends for Tariel Kapanadze part #2 working OU !!! - YouTube