Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[soundiceuk]

Does anyone remember what gauge Serendipitor used?

Who got the best results yet?

Who used the thinnest wire?

[tswift]

How about the conventional spark excited Original Tesla coil?, it would be better then slayer exciter, but Its also hard to control the voltage, based on my experience.

Interesting idea, but by the time you acquire or fabricate rectifiers capable of taking the full coil voltage I don't think you'd really come out ahead. At least with the multiplier design the diodes only have to be rated for each stage voltage, not the full stack.

One idea I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is the possibility of using a static machine. Let's see, if you had a Wimshurst generator for high voltage DC, you could put two Leyden jars on it with spark gaps and coils and basically have Bruce's mirrored arrangement with no rectifiers whatsoever. Hmm, remind me again what the famous/infamous Testatika machine looks like?

[ricards]

2 cm spark is somehow around 60kv (depending on humidity) should be good enough for me(I should have placed my order a month ago) everytime I make one myself after 1 use few minutes later, It will spark and short itself on nearby coils its really hard to overlap coils together ..

On Voltage Multiplier Circuit, from my experience you need to have your diodes and capacitor twice the voltage rating that your supply, and also your capacitance to be fairly high (100nf above) if you have lower, you have to have them very close together or the High Voltage will wither away back to ambient. (this is actually my biggest problem to create a very high voltage power supply that can be used Unloaded and still not break through the Insulation)

How about the conventional spark excited Original Tesla coil?, it would be better then slayer exciter, but Its also hard to control the voltage, based on my experience.

This project is so interesting its dragging me away from my current .

[tswift]

What wire size did I originally specify for the antenna and what size did you all use?

Yes, I admit I goofed because I didn't understand. I did try but it's so fragile that it's hard to work with, however we won't get the results with bigger wire. There's no way I can get a 500 foot long single strand erected in one piece, so that means either zigzagging it back and forth in a grid or a coil or something.

[Mwtj]

What wire size did I originally specify for the antenna and what size did you all use?

0.25mm if i remember correctly of whatever we had

Used 0.5mm and 0.7mm

[tswift]

You could be right there. The only thing comes to mind is will there not be any arc`s between the wires if they are that close together?

I got 0.10mm wire about 7km of it. But it will be a real test to get that wound around any structure.

And what is the difference with the grounding system versus the antenna. So many question! Cannot get my mind around at the moment.

There won't be any arcing between the wires because they are all at the same potential. This antenna is for DC, it's not resonating at some frequency. And yes, I agree working with the really thin stuff is a pain. It wants to kink and it's easy to break unless you're very careful. What I think we're going to discover is that for a given device setup there is an optimum amount of ion current. The higher the voltage on the multiplier the less current should be needed. The ion current represents a power loss and a load on the high voltage module, but it also produces the power gain. So essentially you're looking for a good impedance match for the DC voltage and current capabilities of the driver/multiplier combo. You want enough current to fire the PPV's continuously, but if the antenna has too much area it will load down the HVM too much. The higher the voltage the less antenna area should be required to achieve this.

[soundiceuk]

What wire size did I originally specify for the antenna and what size did you all use?

[Mwtj]

Well, Bruce can correct me if I'm wrong but what we are actually looking for is ion current not just surface area. The radius of curvature of the surface matters for concentrating the dielectric field lines. It's the same reason why the PPV has a sharp point. So we need a surface with a small radius of curvature, which you could do with sharp points of some kind as one possible method. Hmm, you know this sounds a great deal like reading the Plauson patent! Read it again and look at the various surface treatments applied to the elevated conducting surfaces to increase ionization. In this case the really simple solution is just to use the tiniest wire possible, and lots of it.

You could be right there. The only thing comes to mind is will there not be any arc`s between the wires if they are that close together?

I got 0.10mm wire about 7km of it. But it will be a real test to get that wound around any structure.

And what is the difference with the grounding system versus the antenna. So many question! Cannot get my mind around it at the moment.

[tswift]

If we are looking for surface area why not just use a large copper plate ?

Well, Bruce can correct me if I'm wrong but what we are actually looking for is ion current not just surface area. The radius of curvature of the surface matters for concentrating the dielectric field lines. It's the same reason why the PPV has a sharp point. So we need a surface with a small radius of curvature, which you could do with sharp points of some kind as one possible method. Hmm, you know this sounds a great deal like reading the Plauson patent! Read it again and look at the various surface treatments applied to the elevated conducting surfaces to increase ionization. In this case the really simple solution is just to use the tiniest wire possible, and lots of it.

[tswift]

Have you guys tried the 400kv high voltage module?
they are really cheap too.

DC 3.6V-6V 400KV 400000V Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator | eBay

It might break easily though.

No, I wasn't aware of those. Color me skeptical though, the outputs aren't even HV wire. Not sure what it is doing internally but it certainly can't have much power and like you say is probably fragile. I would be astonished to get anything like the published ratings even with no load whatsoever. The boost converter on the other hand I think is a good idea, I went ahead and ordered one on the chance it proves useful.

[Mwtj]

If we are looking for surface area why not just use a large copper plate ?

[Mwtj]

"In a capacitor one plate must equal the other or else you've got discharges in between". I remember don saying that.

The I remember PDF by bruce states the higher the voltage the better.

Have you guys tried the 400kv high voltage module?

they are really cheap too.

DC 3.6V-6V 400KV 400000V Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator | eBay

It might break easily though.

Those will not reach 400kV.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0yi4Y_BtVA[/VIDEO]

[ricards]

"In a capacitor one plate must equal the other or else you've got discharges in between". I remember don saying that.

The I remember PDF by bruce states the higher the voltage the better.

Have you guys tried the 400kv high voltage module?

they are really cheap too.

DC 3.6V-6V 400KV 400000V Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator | eBay

It might break easily though.

[tswift]

OK, I tried the ZVS with two batteries on the workbench. No antenna or ground connections so essentially no load other than a small amount of leakage current. Sure enough, everything is roughly doubled: dipole voltage now 26KV, input current now 800 mA at 24V nominal (probably about 25V or 26V true). The whole machine crackles with static like a charged CRT, and the PPV's fire every couple of seconds due to just the small leakage current from uninsulated parts. It's possible this might be enough to be useful, I will test it with the antenna and ground after dark.

[tswift]

@Tswift
Im thinking to use a dc boost converter to step up the voltage on the zvs from a single 12v batt.

Good idea, I can't think of any reason that won't work. Even without an external multiplier I think there is an internal multiplier within the flyback, probably 2 or 3 stages since it has the "focus" output coming from the first stage. Driven hard enough with a higher voltage input this should reach respectable voltages. I measured 13KV with 12V input, it should be more or less linear with voltage I would think (unloaded). So ramping it up to 24V nominal should be getting close to 30KV. Hopefully this is enough to start getting some more impressive results. Those ZVS/flyback units are plentiful and cheap, I already ordered a spare in case I fry this one.