Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Guruji]

Hi Zilano or others who can help I'm using the middle variable capacitor for the joule thief is this ok?
Am I connecting it rightly to those marked connections?
Still striving with this joule thief
Any help please?
Thanks

[Dave45]

Hi Dave45,
please explain in detail. Are all ends of the ribbon tied together?
rgds John

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-magnet-6.html
read this page, too long to explain
thanx
dave

[JohnStone]

@JohnStone

Here is the circuit I used and demonstrated in the video.

@T-1000
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll work towards getting a ringing up wave pattern.
If you are asking what the input power and out power on my system, the system input is 240W and output I don't yet. I use for now a 100W bulb to see if there is work being done.

Hi Blue_Serge,
is your HV PSU connected avramenko style - no GND?
rgds John

[JohnStone]

Hi Zilano or others who can help I'm using the middle variable capacitor for the joule thief is this ok?
Am I connecting it rightly to those marked connections?
Still striving with this joule thief
Any help please?
Thanks

Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John

[hello_all]

thanks john u are nifty...

[TEKTRON]

Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks [ATTACH]9707[/ATTACH]
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John

Thanks John. Cool idea

[jharmon]

precisely

@JohnStone

Spark triggered by resonance (D)
This is still a secret to me. (therefore no schematic). The basic idea is that at every single oscillation amplitude a corresponding spark adds additional energy (increasing oscillations). These sparks need to be tuned well and brute force is a no go.
No idea how some sparks of mains frequency can do this requested behavior. Same at 40 KHz like blue serge. Maybe I'm wrong.
Aniway - from the Utkin paper I learned that there are some different "mechnics" producing OU and the OU behavior can be introduced at different points in the schematic - and they can be combined as well. I urge you to study Utkin and diskuss & share. I feel it to be essential to discern the different "mechanics" and address them clearly in the schematics.

Thanks for this post John. I just got spark *big milestone*, but now am thinking about the quality of the wave and the timing of the spark. So, in this way, we are on the same page.

Re: sparks triggered by resonance. This is what I have been working towards. I have built powerlabs flyback driver circuit show here... POWERLABS' High Voltage Solid State Flyback Driver.

You can wire it easily with a terminal block and Radioshack parts. This is a resonant circuit that delivers short pulses through a transistor to a flyback transformer. Once per cycle powered from DC 12V. The author states that this resonant behavior is responsible for large voltage gain between L1 and L2 of the flyback. :-) This may be OU by itself.

So what's next for me? I have a B&W 80 turn coil and I've already constructed a 10 turn bifilar with a center tap for harvesting, so I think these are my options...

Option A: Tune the B&W 80 turn coil to ring at the flyback frequency and drive it directly off the flyback. I scoped this and it's around 40khz. This could work, but then I've eliminated the spark gap from the circuit. And Z has said specifically that transistors cannot produce the OU effect because they are current operated. Still not sure what to think about this.

@Z... what do you think of the solid-state tesla coilers??? Why transistors not capable of this effect?


Option B: Tune the flyback L2 to match the B&W. This is tantalizingly easy, just put a capacitor across the L2 coil. But I'm worried this will be harder than I think. My RLC meter allows me to take L readings at different frequencies. i.e. 100Hz, 1khz, 10khz. The L values are radically different depending on the frequency. Therefore the required capacitance is hard to calculate. I think the required capacitance is between 1-5 pF to get this to ring around 30khz. I ordered a 25kV variable capacitor off of eBay (expensive) to try this out. But the capacitor is from 3pF-50pF. Might not go low enough. Will let you know how this goes if I pursue it.


Option C: Replace resonant flyback driver with fixed freq inductive driver.
This would be something like a 2n3055 amplifier that follows an input signal. I could use an oscilloscope function generator to fix the frequency @ around 30khz. In this case, I won't get resonant rise in the flyback, so the gain will be through induction only and therefore less than I'm getting now... but it should be about 5000V based on the ratio of windings. Also, this will also consume more source power, but whatever. I get the frequency I want. Then to a diode for rectified output from the flyback. Then to the gap. And then... to another diode. And finally to the top of my coil.

30khz @ 6V signal >>> power amp flyback driver >>> flyback transformer >>> half-wave rectifier >>> spark gap >>> diode >>> top of L1

In this setup, I believe the second diode is key, because I want the spark to jump the gap when the top of the coil is at high potential. Without the diode, the downstream side of the gap would also be at high potential and the gap wouldn't fire. So add the diode to keep the downstream side of the gap at low potential and fire away at the peak to get resonant rise. I believe the other key is to use potentiometers on the power amp flyback driver so that I can adjust the timing of the spark. The width of the gap will also play a factor in the timing.

Once this is all working, I think I could just replace the function generator with a choke sitting next to the L1 B&W. The choke would go to a voltage divider to get a 6V signal that's in phase. And probably adjust the tuning a bit again.


Option D: Just step it down.
Z said that you need an emitter coil, resonant collector coil, and a harvest coil (or words to that effect). So if I'm already getting resonant rise from this funky flyback driver, i should be able to just step down the voltage. Because it's high frequency, i need to use an air or ferrite coil. I've ordered a second, identical flyback transformer that I'll connect in reverse. Then I'll add an emitter coil L2 and drive this into a high-frequency full-wave bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor for DC. I should get more DC out than in and closing the loop here should be trivial. HMMM. This maybe the best idea yet.

@Z... What do you think of option D????


John... I hope that advances your thoughts about resonant triggering of the spark gap. Thanks so much for your brilliant diagrams / illustrations and for capturing so many of the options discussed so far.

Thoughts and feedback welcome and appreciated.


Shine

[JohnStone]

Hi jharmon,
thanks for sharing your bunch of thoughts. It`s a lot to study. I will come back regarding this material if my brain digested this food a bit.
I will do this with the Utkin paper in mind. I feel this is a kind of "shelf" where the notions can be stored in a proper order.
rgds John

[JohnStone]

PWM controller

Hi ALL;
just dismantling my old cordless screwdriver. There you find a PWM controller of about 15 KHz. It is battery operated (if you want to) and fits to inductive loads. Just replace the motor with the FB primary winding. But keep in mind that if you have very few windings the inductivity may tend to be a short circuit at this fixed frequency. In this case add a corresponding power resistor in series between controller and winding. This is exactly like at car ignition coils with low inductance - they have a resistor in series.
I admit this might not be the optimum but an easy way to start experimenting and helps low funded experimenters.
rgds John

[Guruji]

VCaps

Hi Guruji,
usually the contacts are at side fins or at back and not at front side. Do it quick and dirty and find (measure) contacts not being connected internally. If you connect the device to your joule thief the hissing noise should change.

@ALL: If you have no variable capacitor available try this: use two heatsinks [ATTACH]9707[/ATTACH]
Nest them together with the fins but insert plastic foil before. As you slide them regarding each other you change the capacitance. Needles to say: connect wires
rgrds John

Thanks John for your help I'm still waiting for my mosfets from abroad. Looking forward to build Don's Device.

[Gedfire]

Simple overunity

Hi Gedfire,
please specify "see this work"! What works? A bulb, a voltmeter?

I built it like the schematic today and saw it not working. 6/8" coppertube 10" long, slotted, 80 turns of magnet wire. The natural oscillation of the coil is about 3 MHz.
- no volt, no bulb lighting
- same with diode and capacitor at output.
- same when adding ring magnets around the rod.

I believe in OU so I am not discouraged. What is wrong?
rgds John

Hello JohnStone,


I got a neon bulb to work.Original work was by Lorrie Matchet who has some really good stuff on her channel at youtube.

It was not built exactly like Zilano's version.But you do get power.

See pics.

Ged

[JohnStone]

[QUOTE=zilano;169111]remember spark is ac and we need hv dc to trigger coil+cap. in sr we use 3rd diode to provide hvdc. in don we provide hv dc to coil+cap so we dont use 3rd diode in don case.

a coil is triggered into self oscillation when a pulse of hv dc is fed instantaneously and only a spark can do that. the hv dc thus injected make it oscillate. even a coil without cap can be oscillated coz it has parasitic capacitor between its turns. so actually a simple coil is an lc circuit. parasitic capacitance can be increased by winding turns apart and normally the pvc insulation does that. in don case the coils r naked so we have to wind them spaced apart. resonance can be achieved in don case by sliding primary within secondary with secondary middle point earthed.




Hi Zilano,
thanks for the hints.
Z: "a coil is triggered into self oscillation when a pulse of hv dc is fed instantaneously and only a spark can do that."
Yes I understand. some of my tests produced AC spark!
Z:"the hv dc thus injected make it oscillate. even a coil without cap can be oscillated coz it has parasitic capacitor between its turns. so actually a simple coil is an lc circuit. parasitic capacitance can be increased by winding turns apart and normally the pvc insulation does that. in don case the coils r naked so we have to wind them spaced apart. "
Yes, I saw that. My test coil is about 50 turns 4 times wire diameter apart and I measured about 3 MHz of natural self resonance. I will try speaker twin cable (thin one - not the jumbo one)

Question to the SR-circuit: Is the GND at PSU really the only one? Is it Avramenko type?
rgds John

[JohnStone]

Hi Jharmon,
please find my comments and questions inserted in your text in bold letters. As I mentioned - there are notions and I'm shure that some need discussion. Don't take me too seriously
rgds John

[QUOTE=jharmon;169125]@JohnStone
......


You can wire it easily with a terminal block and Radioshack parts. This is a resonant circuit that delivers short pulses through a transistor to a flyback transformer. Once per cycle powered from DC 12V. The author states that this resonant behavior is responsible for large voltage gain between L1 and L2 of the flyback. :-) This may be OU by itself.
[- Sorry, I doubt it is resonance - my notion. These circuits are called quasi resonant. It is a self ringer Meissner oscillator. The timing is not given by L/C of any coil but by current increase and decrease while producing base current in the extra winding. There is a schematic out there (russian origin, English translation) where they explain how they measured the natural frequency and how thy tuned it. Unfortunately I lost the link because my PC decided on behalf of Microsoft to restart after an update. Nevertheless it is desirable to get the flyback output coil in resonance (i.e. capacitor in parallel to output winding - see). I still study this matter.
- I do not know how they calculated the resistors at power labs. Please note that transistors get lazy and hot if they have not their optimum base current. First step is to play with resistors in order to get low CE voltage at switch on time (scope) and not more current than necessary. Later on you can fine tune for a specific supply voltage and load for best steep switching slopes.
- Fortunately I have my FB ready - but not build myself. 40 KHz up to 35 KV]

So what's next for me? I have a B&W 80 turn coil and I've already constructed a 10 turn bifilar with a center tap for harvesting, so I think these are my options...
[- What is the magic of B&W coils? At that price there need to be some. Are they cold drawn and tinned. Tin is told to increase the magnetic flux by 4 at same current.
- Your 10 turn harvest coil is cw or cw/ccw or true bifilar Tesla like. Zilano normally prefers cw only but at last schematics she proposed cw/ccw like Utkin paper. I decided to build both and learn by measurement.
BTW: I intend to post next week my stupid simple coil winding jig - simple but effective. Continue to build after this post.]

Option A: Tune the B&W 80 turn coil to ring at the flyback frequency and drive it directly off the flyback. I scoped this and it's around 40khz. This could work, but then I've eliminated the spark gap from the circuit. And Z has said specifically that transistors cannot produce the OU effect because they are current operated. Still not sure what to think about this.

@Z... what do you think of the solid-state tesla coilers??? Why transistors not capable of this effect?
[It seem to be essential what "mechanic" you intend to employ and what your goal is. Tesla coilers do not intend to get OU but electric fire and they are willing to pay their bill. We are tightfisted and want not to.
Confirming Utkin you can get OU with CW/CCW and short circuit without sparks.
But if you intend to increase ocillation energy cycle by cycle you need a spark and only a spark.
And you can add different OU effects at same time (read Utkin!) You find most of Z's proposals there! I inted to study one efect after the other. The combination of OU effects in the posted schematics is too confusing for me.
Sorry for my stammering but this seems to be the direction.]


Option B: Tune the flyback L2 to match the B&W. This is tantalizingly easy, just put a capacitor across the L2 coil. [Confused: What L2? from FB or Don Smith?] But I'm worried this will be harder than I think. My RLC meter allows me to take L readings at different frequencies. i.e. 100Hz, 1khz, 10khz. The L values are radically different depending on the frequency. Therefore the required capacitance is hard to calculate. I think the required capacitance is between 1-5 pF to get this to ring around 30khz. I ordered a 25kV variable capacitor off of eBay (expensive) to try this out. But the capacitor is from 3pF-50pF. Might not go low enough. Will let you know how this goes if I pursue it.
[- Would be great help is you referred to a schematic. My test coil (50 turns on 100mm air core resonates at about 3 MHz. Very unlikely that you get any change with some pF. 1 pF is a smack of nothing.
- I posted yeasterday a suggestion for home brew variable capacitor with heat sinks. Today I add another suggestion: Laminate Al foil inbetween these -you know - double sided laminating foils. You can do it with a flatiron if you happen to have no apparatus for this. Let nn edge or a Al tape come out before laminating for contact. Make two of them minimum and position them one over the other. If you have problems with voltage laminate twice. I got easily a 3 nF fixed capacitor with a stack of these. ]


Option C: Replace resonant flyback driver with fixed freq inductive driver.
This would be something like a 2n3055 amplifier that follows an input signal. I could use an oscilloscope function generator to fix the frequency @ around 30khz. [Have you got an old audio amplifier? They are good down to 4 Ohm and 25 KHz.] In this case, I won't get resonant rise in the flyback, so the gain will be through induction only and therefore less than I'm getting now... but it should be about 5000V based on the ratio of windings. Also, this will also consume more source power, but whatever. I get the frequency I want. Then to a diode for rectified output from the flyback. Then to the gap. And then... to another diode. And finally to the top of my coil.

30khz @ 6V signal >>> power amp flyback driver >>> flyback transformer >>> half-wave rectifier >>> spark gap >>> diode >>> top of L1

In this setup, I believe the second diode is key, because I want the spark to jump the gap when the top of the coil is at high potential. Without the diode, the downstream side of the gap would also be at high potential and the gap wouldn't fire. So add the diode to keep the downstream side of the gap at low potential and fire away at the peak to get resonant rise. I believe the other key is to use potentiometers on the power amp flyback driver so that I can adjust the timing of the spark. The width of the gap will also play a factor in the timing.

Once this is all working, I think I could just replace the function generator with a choke sitting next to the L1 B&W. The choke would go to a voltage divider to get a 6V signal that's in phase. And probably adjust the tuning a bit again.


Option D: Just step it down. [Seems to be a case of dilignece if we got OU before. This is why I will build a set of coils and study their behavior in different schamatics.]
Z said that you need an emitter coil, resonant collector coil, and a harvest coil (or words to that effect)[See Utkin paper!]. So if I'm already getting resonant rise from this funky flyback driver, i should be able to just step down the voltage. Because it's high frequency, i need to use an air or ferrite coil. I've ordered a second, identical flyback transformer that I'll connect in reverse. Then I'll add an emitter coil L2 and drive this into a high-frequency full-wave bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor for DC. I should get more DC out than in and closing the loop here should be trivial. HMMM. This maybe the best idea yet.

[Have you got any means to draw schematics. It will be a great help for diskussions. I use KiCad. It is easy to generate own symbols needed for our dicussions as well.]
........
[QUOTE]

[RAMSET]

A Wesley and friends movie

Wesley
Quote:

NEW VIDEO AFTER CORRECTIONS:

LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf - YouTube




[size=0.9166em][size=1.8333em]
LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf

[JohnStone]

Seems to be private only!

Wesley
Quote:

NEW VIDEO AFTER CORRECTIONS:

LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf - YouTube




[size=0.9166em][size=1.8333em]
LITHUANIA OU EXERIMENTS VIDEO #4 SCHEMATICS AND MESUREMENT.swf