Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[boguslaw]

The point is that spark should be eliminated. Proof ? Tesla and Kapanadze words.
Kapanadze spark is silent for example and he said that in larger systems it must not be used. Tesla said that in better embodiment of resonant circuits there is no need for spark gap.

[JohnStone]

Hey John, please provide link or info on Tesung effect. Not familiar with it. Thanks
Online Book: Outline of the Book

Sorry, correct spelling : Lawrence Tseung -> Lead out/in theory
Online Book: The full story

[soundiceuk]

The driver circuit I am using is slightly modified version of Mr. Cleans.
I've move the diode in the collector snubber circuit to across the
collector/emitter. The diode I using is an FEP16JT with a current rating of
16A and a max reverse recovery time of 50ns. The neon lamp in the snubber
never lights. Also I'm using a FWB before the sparkgap and the gap is
magnetically quenched.

1. How come you are using a FEP16JT when the spec says 600v?

2. The magnets you are using to quench the spark are neodymiums that are magnetized axially.

Do you think it would make any difference using diametrically magnetized with the poles pointing at the spark gap, as the field would be totally different?

[Patrick Kelly]

Not sure what kind of tube Zilano referred to.
XOP750, XOP1500 Strobe Flash tubes lamps - Stroboscope flicker 1000w 750w
600WS Flash Tube replacement studio strobe lamp bulb | eBay

In Zilano's last circuit diagram, the device is described as a "lightning arrestor" which is how Don Smith describes the Gas Discharge Tubes supplied by Farnell, so it would not be unreasonable to consider that device as a spark gap.

The 350-volt supply used for both Zilano's diagram and the patent are so unusual that it seems highly unlikely that they are not related. Zilano's diagonal line from the power supply appears to be the trigger feed of the patent and so those are presumably not two contra-connected diodes, but instead, one triggered SCR connected to a spark gap and one diode, using a simplified circuit which feeds the resonant L1 coil and padding capacitor directly.

However, no matter how slick this circuit is, it is my opinion that we should not be distracted by it, but instead, stick with the basic DonSmith/Zilano design until such time as we understand it fully and can replicate it with ease.

Patrick

[Slovenia]

Very Nice!!

Very nice Patrick!! Thank-you.

In Zilano's last circuit diagram, the device is described as a "lightning arrestor" which is how Don Smith describes the Gas Discharge Tubes supplied by Farnell, so it would not be unreasonable to consider that device as a spark gap.

The 350-volt supply used for both Zilano's diagram and the patent are so unusual that it seems highly unlikely that they are not related. Zilano's diagonal line from the power supply appears to be the trigger feed of the patent and so those are presumably not two contra-connected diodes, but instead, one triggered SCR connected to a spark gap and one diode, using a simplified circuit which feeds the resonant L1 coil and padding capacitor directly.

However, no matter how slick this circuit is, it is my opinion that we should not be distracted by it, but instead, stick with the basic DonSmith/Zilano design until such time as we understand it fully and can replicate it with ease.

Patrick

[Seeker2011]

Quick question

How many times should the primary oscillate before the spark gap fires again?
Thanks

[duff]

1. How come you are using a FEP16JT when the spec says 600v?

2. The magnets you are using to quench the spark are neodymiums that are magnetized axially.

Do you think it would make any difference using diametrically magnetized with the poles pointing at the spark gap, as the field would be totally different?

Hi soundiceuk,

1. Yes, the FEP16JT is rated at 600V. I'm using them because of the 50ns reverse recovery time and that's what I had on hand at the time. I doubt that it is seeing 600V bemf in this circuit. I've used it before on other projects without ever blowing them and they perform well.

2. Yes, the magnets are 75lb neodymiums magnetized Axially. They are probably 7 years old so I'm sure there no longer that strong.

3. I have not tried opposing fields across the spark gap.
That might be interesting. I may give it a try...

Regards

[a.king21]

lead out theory

Sorry, correct spelling : Lawrence Tseung -> Lead out/in theory
Online Book: The full story

This is exactly what I have been saying. That resonance with respect to an external input violates the laws of conservation of energy. In the punch bag example, he resonates the punch bag; Then he gets knocked down, proving more energy out than in. But it takes intelligence to undestand it. Not parrot fashion repeating of physics mantras. Hail the intelligence on this forum.
Tesla did it with his earthquake machine. Same principle, different explanation.
Now maybe we can really understand Tesla,
"Electrical World and Engineer, January 7, 1905, pp. 21-24


When shall I see completed that first power plant, that big oscillator which I am designing! From which a current stronger than that of a welding machine, under a tension of one hundred million volts, is to rush through the earth! Which will deliver energy at the rate of one thousand million horse-power—one hundred Falls of Niagara combined in one, striking the universe with blows—blows that will wake from their slumber the sleepiest electricians, if there be any, on Venus or Mars! . . . It is not a dream, it is a simple feat of scientific electrical engineering, only expensive—blind, faint-hearted, doubting world! . . . Humanity is not yet sufficiently advanced to be willingly led by the discover's keen searching sense. But who knows? Perhaps it is better in this present world of ours that a revolutionary idea or invention instead of being helped and patted, be hampered and ill-treated in its adolescence—by want of means, by selfish interest, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance; that it be attacked and stifled; that it pass through bitter trials and tribulations, through the heartless strife of commercial existence. So do we get our light. So all that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed—only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle."

[d3x0r]

These caudaceus coils made easy?

Regarding the coils referenced, these are just two coils wound in opposite directions (cw,ccw), seperately, then merged one turn from each one as slid onto a core?

and very messily wound in this case

scaled_IMG_20120122_033350.jpg
scaled_IMG_20120122_033404.jpg
scaled_IMG_20120122_033408.jpg
scaled_IMG_20120122_033357.jpg

Hi Zilano

Like how SR193 used in his coils?

You mentioned that you used some of Kapanadze and SR193 designs. Did you wind the coils like this Smith/Caduceus coil, Tensor Coils?

Cheers

[broli]

Near the start of this thread there was a claim by a person successfully running their house off a Don Smith like 10kW device, now 85 pages later people are still chasing their own tails? How very odd indeed.
Sometimes I really feel sorry towards such people, either they're seeking their 15 min of fame or "god" always picks the worst people when it comes to open source disclosure and experiments.

[Slovenia]

Well

Well Broli,

The person, Zilano, who claimed to have such a device was a lot of help indeed but, she didn't build the device for us and/or tell us everything. I for one feel that Zilano had a working device and I don't fault her for not sharing everything. Anyway, do you know the answer or what are you doing? If you have the answer please share it. We all want this device or we wouldn't be here except for maybe a few MIB.

Best Regards,
David Fine

Near the start of this thread there was a claim by a person successfully running their house off a Don Smith like 10kW device, now 85 pages later people are still chasing their own tails? How very odd indeed.
Sometimes I really feel sorry towards such people, either they're seeking their 15 min of fame or "god" always picks the worst people when it comes to open source disclosure and experiments.

[Guruji]

Info

Thanks Patrick for that info file very well organized
Broli it's true what you've said but it takes time for builders to replicate a device that is new in our technical mind and to be perfectly done in the field of resonance. But I think we're always getting near.
Thanks for all in this forum.

[JohnStone]

How many times should the primary oscillate before the spark gap fires again?
Thanks

That's the item missing in my summary! (see item6):

The spark should:
1. come out of a capacitor (Tesla, Eue Jin Jeong)

2. provide energy to a resonant circuit (Zilano, Don, Eue Jin Jeong)

3. make use of the section of glow discharge (Correa -> saturated glow discharge). This is probably somewhere before the arcing area -> about 100mA (see graph at end of Korean patent). This is probably what Tesla stated as "spark thoroughly adjusted...." Don used small sparks and plasma tubes as well. (Notion: no brute forth but moderate sparks being quenched)

4. probably triggered synchronously with the resonating frequency. A glow discharge might be easyer to control compared to an arcing. (ignite / quench)

5. A positive push at most negative voltage point might be the correct point in order to make use of the Tseung effect. He states that this effect is valid in mechanics and at electrical oscillations. Push the "pendulum" hard exactly at turnaround point. The trigger can be adjusted to occure at most negative voltage swing in the coil.

6. occure as frequently as possible. If a spark is a source of usable energy (Jeong, Tesla, Correa) then it should be applied as often as possible. The notion above urge that it is preferrable to apply a spark at every turnaround point (every amplitude) - but at least once per full oscillation.
I'm not shure if we need a bell shaped graph in the resonant circuit (not to be confused with a similar graph when charging a capacitor by a FB). I would expect a exponential rise.

Apart sparks:

7. Those Russian circuits with 50HZ sine seem to disturbe the energy gain by an additional 50 Hz coil. Thus they simualte a conventional true sine switched converter. But instead building a HF PWM valve in order to reduce flowing energy forming a sine - Russians control the generation of same in a sine manner.

Remark:
- I agree with boguslaw - sparks should be omitted. But as long as we have no working device we need to follow the most probable tiny opportunity to have one. Itis not preferrable to optimize before but later on it is a must!
- I agree that there are other sources of OU than sparks. But IF we target to sparks we should know what preferrable properties we need to focus on.
- Please understand this list as sharing my personal guideline for experiments following soon. You are wellcome to suggest more. Thanks for your help and sharing!

[a.king21]

resonance

In Zilano's last circuit diagram, the device is described as a "lightning arrestor" which is how Don Smith describes the Gas Discharge Tubes supplied by Farnell, so it would not be unreasonable to consider that device as a spark gap.

The 350-volt supply used for both Zilano's diagram and the patent are so unusual that it seems highly unlikely that they are not related. Zilano's diagonal line from the power supply appears to be the trigger feed of the patent and so those are presumably not two contra-connected diodes, but instead, one triggered SCR connected to a spark gap and one diode, using a simplified circuit which feeds the resonant L1 coil and padding capacitor directly.

However, no matter how slick this circuit is, it is my opinion that we should not be distracted by it, but instead, stick with the basic DonSmith/Zilano design until such time as we understand it fully and can replicate it with ease.

Patrick

So the thing to remember in this circuit are the resonant transformers. They really are the key to understanding ou. Again thanks to Zilano for providing the missing piece of Don Smith information - the resonant output transformer.

[Slovenia]

Good Input!!

Thanks a.king21!!

This is the kind of input we need for this thread.

So the thing to remember in this circuit are the resonant transformers. They really are the key to understanding ou. Again thanks to Zilano for providing the missing piece of Don Smith information - the resonant output transformer.