Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Duncan]

I'm sorry Vladimir doesn’t feel inclined to join us Patrick and I can understand how he may well have had very bad experiences in the past, Most of us run in blinkers aware only of our own agenda. Even the most solid of the nay sayers will rarely break away from their endless favourite subjects of measuring and metering to question the validity of the giant's of free energy .. the Mayer’s and the Moray's for example, However the ambition of getting all the information into a usable and understandable easily replicable form is still being foiled.
It stands to reason that as a matter of course all “free energy” forums are going to be monitored. It must equally be the case that a certain amount of infiltration is to be expected after all surly no one expects tptb (the powers that be) to sit Idly by whilst folks of the calibre of Vladimir are given free rein … very antagonistic I bet given half a chance Vladimir would be invited to a nice Dinner like Stan and TK enjoyed and probably with a lead desert … Vladimir has written a definitive piece of work and with the help of PJK is projecting it hard into the public arena .. The fact that we are forced to totally alter our mind set to try and grasp what he is teaching is neither here nor there thats down to us! Blistering work Vladimir! and Patrick as always a big .

[soundiceuk]

Hi,
most affordable LC meters make use of 2 stimulation frequencies (ca. 40 KHz) (you got it ) only at maximum and they are too low for our application. So they are limited. And some of their range being unreliable. The main problem is measuriung capacitance at coils.
There are new designs along with sophisticated dds frequency generators. being affordable. They measure at 15kHz - 750kHz!!!! sine shape. Thus thy can measure the capacitance of short coils as well.
I do not own this type and have no experience but from a technical point of view this seems very sweet. I would give this technology a try if I require a new LC meter.

BTW:
- These are Kits (smd components avoided or already solderd). Housing, PSU, USB adding cost.
- See the frequency generators of same manufacturer (up to 10 MHz) based on dds as well.
- Sorry for German eBay text. I am ready to translate if required.

Many thanks for this information John.

I'm on the verge of ordering the AE20204 but then saw the AE20125.

Whats your thoughts on this? Whats the highest or lowest frequency we can possibly use with the device?

If we wanted to make a small version... lets say 1kw or 500watts what sort of size coil would we be looking at?

This is the MSD Blaster II coil in action I've been thinking about using....
MSD for Kapanadze generator, for spark generation video No.2 - YouTube

Although I believe a ferrite igntion coil is more versatile frequency wise.

Thoughts please folks

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

[soundiceuk]

Are they cheap because they interface with a pc, therefore greatly removing the amount circuitry needed to operate with pc features?

[Patrick Kelly]

Details on Vladimir Utkin's information

Hi Patrick,
Multiple thanks!!!!
Such knowledge is vital for understanding and targeted experiment.

Just for clarification:
1.
I assume that the part "exitation spark" is meant as exitation spark with few primary windings and not being related to wave length.

2.
In left schematic: the capacitor marked with "resonance" could work as shunt as well? I measured at a coil being shunted or not shunted the same (unexpected for me) natural resonant frequency. In case the capcitor is too small in value for performing as shunt, it will very probably deviate the coil from it's natural frequency to a lower one performing as resonant LC circuit conforming textbooks.

3.
I feel with Utkin with his aversion against forums. He seems to be an individual with vast knowlege outside textbooks. But how to express? All our electrical terms are occupied with imaginations out of standard textbooks. As Tesla experienced - there are no terms in order to precisely transport own imaginations without being distorted. Nevertheless I appreciate Utkin's notions and give him warm thanks for his effort.

rgds John

Hi John,

I'm afraid that I'm really not the person to comment on your queries/observations. I'm only in the loop because Vladimir e-mailed me and asked me to straighten out his English. You already know more about the subject than I do. All I have done is to correct the occasional drastically wrong word, spruce up the diagrams a bit, create pdf and html versions for him in English and attempt translations into Spanish and French, which will be pretty lame as I am useless at languages. So, unfortunately, if I were to comment I would probably steer you in the wrong direction.

Sorry about that,

Patrick

[JohnStone]

Hi soundiceuk,
1. LC meter
Well the AE20204 apparatus is a LC Meter being capable to measure L an C up to 750 KHz. So it can measure a coil with low count of windings L and C. Normal "me too" meters feel a short circuit in this case. This meter makes use of dds technology (see below)
2. Function generator
The AE20125 is a function generator. If you know what you are doing you can use it for L / C measurements as well. But this is not it's main goal.
From 0.1 Hz up to 10 MHz is quite a enormous range. It will be suffitient for measuring our coils. A coil of 18m wire wound in 80 turns will resonate at about 1 - 3 MHz.
Apart from this by wobbling you an easily find resonat pionts. The output of +-5V is enough in order to measure resonance or to control a FB FET.ies

3. DDS technology
The Direct Digital Frequency Synthesis (DDFS or simply DDS) principle makes use of numerical control and mixed signal ASICs. So we get cheap and super precise generators.
It is like GSM mobile phones. The modulation employed there was before a top military technology and only they could pay the money. In short: You can trust in dds technology.

4. Cost factor
An yes - the semiconductors are not a major cost factor but all the mechanical parts and buttons and gauges .... The dds chip (mixed signal semiconductor) is being controlled by a micro with USB I/F.
But please note that your measuring ground is connected to you PC ground!


5. Coil size and frequency
Rearding coil size and power. Zilano stressed it again and again that as soon we have resonance and correct harvesting techonlogy the diameter of harvesting wire is the only concern in order to get power.
Apart from that it is a wise decision of we operate below 3 MHz. Filtering of disturbancies is much more easyer. We have to obey some leagal factors as well. A lot of industries produce high electromagnetic radiation below 3 MHz. Therefore the leagal toleratet leveel ist much more higher than at frequencies above this limit. Most compliance measurements happen above 3 MHz.

6. Magnetic vortex
Is any movement in nature of linear shape? Magnetism is a vortex technology. Proof from Howard Johnson
rgds John

[JohnStone]

Hi John,

I'm afraid that I'm really not the person to comment on your queries/observations.
....
Sorry about that,
Patrick

No problem . I try to grasp it and grap for any tiny piece of knowledge. You give a great contribution already. Thanks!
Then understand it as thought food for the community.
rgds John

[Farmhand]

This diagram, under the title "The Simplest Version where the output has zero influence on the input" is the only update to Vladimir's document.



The updated document is at http://www.free-energy-info.com/VladimirUtkin.pdf

I encouraged him to join this forum but he does not like forums, I gather, due to previous antagonistic experiences.

Patrick

Hi Patrick, It looks to me like in the "for accumulation" diagram either the
diode or the capacitor are around the wrong way. I don't think it will work like
that, and if an electrolytic capacitor was used it could explode.

Well I don't see how it could work like that anyway, it would charge the
negative plate of the capacitor with positive charge.
Seems odd it is overlooked.

Cheers

[T-1000]

This diagram, under the title "The Simplest Version where the output has zero influence on the input" is the only update to Vladimir's document.

Here are principal things to think about...
When you have canceling EM with opposite wires, the magnetic field stays on 90 degrees. There you put coils for induction and load what does not affect input.

Please see my quick sketch attached:

[Farmhand]

Here are principal things to think about...
When you have canceling EM with opposite wires, the magnetic field stays on 90 degrees. There you put coils for induction and load what does not affect input.

Please see my quick sketch attached:

Yes but in practice what exactly does the "output having zero influence on the input" actually mean ?

I would say it means that if the input is say 200 watts then when no load is
taken the input is still 200 watts (hardly desirable) and it also means that 200
watts or less is the limit of the output (no more desirable), if not, what is the limit.

So a 50 Kw system would use 50 Kw even if no power was taken from the
system. That seems like the pinnacle of inefficiency to me.

People seem to be implying that the output having no effect on the input
means the output is limitless.

I am asking what is the output limit if the output has no effect on the input ?

Cheers

[Slovenia]

T-1000/Arunas (Important Team Wesley Member)

Hi Arunas, T-1000, thank you very much for sharing here with us!! I think there are probably many similarities in your Kapandaze device which can be used in the Smith device also. We appreciate any guidance you can give us.

Here are principal things to think about...
When you have canceling EM with opposite wires, the magnetic field stays on 90 degrees. There you put coils for induction and load what does not affect input.

Please see my quick sketch attached:

[jharmon]

Variable Frequency LC Meter

Many thanks for this information John.

I'm on the verge of ordering the AE20204 but then saw the AE20125.

Is this what I think it is? A Variable Frequency LC Meter? Does it work with a function generator or standalone.

If so, I was just looking for this. Hard to tune with caps when you don't know the L at your Hz!!

[deggers]

Kapanadze /smith

Yes but in practice what exactly does the "output having zero influence on the input" actually mean ?

I would say it means that if the input is say 200 watts then when no load is
taken the input is still 200 watts (hardly desirable) and it also means that 200
watts or less is the limit of the output (no more desirable), if not, what is the limit.

So a 50 Kw system would use 50 Kw even if no power was taken from the
system. That seems like the pinnacle of inefficiency to me.

People seem to be implying that the output having no effect on the input
means the output is limitless.

I am asking what is the output limit if the output has no effect on the input ?

Cheers

That is the correct question! How many output coils do you want to power?

FreeenergyinventionsTARIEL KAPANADZE

[Farmhand]

That is the correct question! How many output coils do you want to power?

FreeenergyinventionsTARIEL KAPANADZE

It won't work quite like people think. The energy available in radiations will
always be less than the input. try it and see. That particular setup of Don
Smiths rely's on radiations. Tesla's system did not.

Here are some quotes from Nikola Tesla and his work on alternating currents.
Nikola Tesla On His Work With Alternating Currents -- Chapter IV

This one says that to get 30 HP into the oscillating system he had to use
50 HP. That's a loss right off the bat.

Counsel

What was the horsepower activity in the oscillating circuits when you used this machine?

Tesla

Usually something like 50 horsepower, and I would get, I should say, approximately 30 horsepower

in the antenna; that is, I would get 30 horsepower in the oscillating circuit.

This quote below explains why the load needs to affect the primary and the input.

Counsel

Why is that, on your theory?

Tesla

I will explain it by an analogue.

Suppose that the earth were an elastic bag filled with water. My transmitter is equivalent to a

pump. I put it on a point of the globe, and work my little piston so as to create a disturbance

of that water. If the piston moves slowly, so that the time is long enough for the disturbance

to spread over the globe, then what will be the result of my working this pump? The result will

be that the bag will expand and contract rhythmically with the motions of the piston, you see.

So that, at any point of that bag, there will be a rhythmical movement due to the pulsations of

the pump.

That is only, however, when the period is long. If I were to work this pump very rapidly, then

I would create impulses, and the ripples would spread in circles over the surface of the globe.

The globe will no longer expand and contract in its entirety, but it will be subject to these

outgoing, rippling waves.

Remember, now, that the water is incompressible, that the bag is perfectly elastic, that there

are no hysteretic losses in the bag due to these expansions and contractions; and remember also,

that there is a vacuum, in infinite space, so that the energy cannot be lost in waves of sound.

Then, if I put at a distant point another little pump, and tune it to the rhythmical pulses of

the pump at the central plant, I will excite strong vibrations and will recover power from them,

sufficient to operate a receiver. But, if I have no pump there to receive these oscillations,

if there is nowhere a place where this elastic energy is transferred into frictional energy (we

always use in our devices frictional energy -- everything is lost through friction), then there

is no loss, and if I have a plant of 1,000 horsepower and I operate it to full capacity, that

plant does not take power, it runs idle, exactly as the plant at Niagara. If I do not put any

motors or any lamps on the circuit, the plant runs idle. There is a 5,000 horsepower turbine

going, but no power is supplied to the turbine except such power as is necessary to overcome the

frictional losses.

Now the vast difference between the scheme of radio engineers and my scheme is this. If you

generate electromagnetic waves with a plant of 1,000 horsepower, you are using 1,000 horsepower

right along -- whether there is any receiving being done or not. You have to supply this 1,000

horsepower, exactly as you have to supply coal to keep your stove going, or else no heat goes

out. That is the vast difference. In my case, I conserve the energy; in the other case, the

energy is all lost

And this one below explains that "as long as there is no energy taken out at
any other place" Tesla's system uses a minimum of input to keep up the
vibrations, in other words when there is no load the input is less and when
there is load the input increases to meet the demand of the load. Which is the
only way for true efficiency.

I have, in fact, worked out a plant of 10,000 horse-power which would operate with no bigger

loss than 1 percent of the whole power applied; that is, with the exception of the frictional

energy that is consumed in the rotation of the engines and the heating of the conductors, I

would not lose more than 1 percent. In other words, if I have a 10,000 horsepower plant, it

would take only 100 horsepower to keep the earth vibrating so long as there is no energy taken

out at any other place.

So my question is why do people ignore Tesla's words ? Tesla stated why the
load must affect the input for true efficiency, not the other way around.

The setup of Don's is exactly the opposite of what Tesla says is the most
efficient way.

Honestly it doesn't take a mental giant to work out that if the input is not
affected by the load and the system is taking 200 watts input with only
10 watts load then 190 watts is wasted. And also that no more than
200 watts could be taken from the system, that would be it's limit.

Like a car with no throttle it would be either flat out or off, which would be
very crude and inefficient and certainly not practical.


Cheers

This same reasoning and result is true of any of the systems which exhibit the
no change of input under load effect. Most of the one's I have seen the loads
are tiny compared to the input and either the input the output or both are not
measured accurately. And with no load the input continues unchanged.

That is not a good situation imagine a 5 Kw system powering 5 Kw of load
then 4.8 Kw of the load is turned off. The system input is still 5 Kw the setup
would probably burst into flames or at the very least any saving made would
quickly disappear.

So could someone explain to us all why the load not affecting the input is a
good thing ?

I've provided quotes of Tesla's own words saying why it is not a desirable
situation to have the load not affect the input. With reference to the original
document.

..

..

[JohnStone]

Is this what I think it is? A Variable Frequency LC Meter? Does it work with a function generator or standalone.

If so, I was just looking for this. Hard to tune with caps when you don't know the L at your Hz!!

It works standalone. It makes use auf a DDS chip for stimulation frequency.

[Farmhand]

If Nikola Tesla was to come back to life now and seen a solar panel I think he would be
very pleased with what he saw. I think he would probably say it was a natural
extension or evolution of his radiant energy receiver and I think he would likely
use them to charge his batteries for his experiments. And probably set about
improving their efficiency if he thought it possible.

Granted solar panels are not practical for everyone, but why is that ? Because
too many people are stuck in the cities ? Because people use and waste too
much electrical energy ? Or is it because of the government corruption, taxes
and consumerism ?

The root of all our problems lie with our corrupted governments, greed, the
love of money and control and our willingness to waste. In my opinion.

What good is any free energy system if we are not free to use them as we wish.
It seems to me if our governments are slaves to TPTB then before we can
progress to free energy they must be made to serve us and not them.
Evil still controls the masses.

Cheers