Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[gyula]

......

cant we at least (from my last vid) go roughly by:

input
1.97v @ 20ma
(20mv across 1 ohm)
----39.4mW
output
9.28v @ 56.3ma
(563mv across 10 ohm)
----522mW

?

Hi mr.clean,

Your data of 9.28V above is measured when your secondary coil is not loaded by the 10 Ohm, right? If yes, then the correct output is not 522mW but 31.7mW only (i.e. the 563mV across 10 Ohm).

Gyula

[mr.clean]

P. S. Mr. clean, if your primary is tuned very close to resonance (this may not be the case), I believe the power factor should be close to 1, so the
efficency would be around 84%, based on your measurements. If you short one of the secondaries and redo the measurements, it might be interesting to compare the results. I actually measured an efficiency of around 90% in one of my bi-toroid tests with one of the secondaries shorted. You may do even better...

Also, you should really set your probe and scope to x10 as I described previously, and try to make your measurements with the scope set to make the voltage waveform fill at least half of the screen or more for more accurate voltage measurements.

ok i dont get how we used 1.91v and found the lesser v across resistor 20mv, giving 1.91x.02

but that the 9.28v in-line and the 563mv across is not also multiplied as well like in input ?

and how could 2v input make the bulbs BOTH so intensely bright as in previous vids, they are 3v LEDs !? lol

could Bemf be interfering, i dont think so, but i see more work being done than those numbers.
i also noticed a different trend of readings when i tried higher ohm resistances

one other thing, if i take off the tuning cap, numbers change maybe i'll try it again with the tuning caps on the secondary like previous vids, and also coil shorted for comparison

[gyula]

mr.clean,

In your video you wrote in the text that the (10 Ohm ) resistor is still connected but in series with the probe? If yes, then your probe's 1 MOhm input resistance (in X1 position) limits the current! ok? and this is why you can see a quasi unloaded output voltage (9.28V). The actual current is only 9.28V/1MOhm=9.28uA (microAmper).
This is why a reasonable load is to be chosen and what is reasonable is always depends of the capability of your actual circuit what you can expect from it.

Gyula

[mr.clean]

mr.clean,

In your video you wrote in the text that the (10 Ohm ) resistor is still connected but in series with the probe? If yes, then your probe's 1 MOhm input resistance (in X1 position) limits the current! ok? and this is why you can see a quasi unloaded output voltage (9.28V). The actual current is only 9.28V/1MOhm=9.28uA (microAmper).
This is why a reasonable load is to be chosen and what is reasonable is always depends of the capability of your actual circuit what you can expect from it.

Gyula

lol i dont get that either, but i'll go learn

[mr.clean]

Well, it is possible I misunderstood where and how you took some of your voltage readings, but it looked to me that you measured 563mV across the load resistor when it was connected to the secondary. If that is the case then the calculations should be correct. Sure, trying different values for load resistors, and adding capacitors for tuning the secondaries, and shorting one of the secondaries might well make a noticeable improvement. Good luck with your experiments...

ok, yes i'll try those things, thanks

[mr.clean]

I agree with Gyula calculation. Since the circuit is actually an LC tank in parallel resonance and you adjusted to resonant frequency, I don't think we have to worry about phase too much. The calculation did miss a zero so you're close to unity with:

input: .0394
output: .031

It may not be complete. If you can measure coil resistance, it'll add a bit more to the calculation. Also current in the LC tank can be many times greater than the current through the 1 Ohm. That might add quite a bit of energy to the calculation.

hmm ok that is interesting, so ur saying the v could be different between cap as opposed to other side of cap?

i still dont see how i could get the bulbs so bright with this little input tho, anyway the work continues

[Gedfire]

New Don Video

Hello All,

I would like to ask a question.This question was asked by a member of the audience with long hair at Inventors weekend 2005.He asked Don about how he reduced the voltage from a tesla coil in the tower device that had the 24 volt 50F or 400F capacitor and special tapped transformer made in India.What exactly was the answer? Could you explain how this could be done?

Ged

[T-1000]

hmm ok that is interesting, so ur saying the v could be different between cap as opposed to other side of cap?

i still dont see how i could get the bulbs so bright with this little input tho, anyway the work continues

Hi Kurt,

You might repeat your first tuning setup 39C Don Smith Device Project: Bitoroid HV Resonant Drive Transformer Tune and Testing - YouTube then measure voltage/current/waveform when one secondary is shorted with 1 Ohm resitor and when another secondary fully lights up LED making LED on primary to stop glowing.
Should be interesting readings.

[gyula]

lol i dont get that either, but i'll go learn

In your video you wrote in the caption at 2:57
"Correction, the resistor is still conncted but now in series connection, with the end of one secondary 1 with probe "

and you say there open voltage in the wires if I got it correctly, ok?

If yes, then the only way I can understand this measurement is that you lifted up one leg of the 10 Ohm resistor from the board, clipped the probe black crocodyle onto the lifted leg of the resistor, shown at 3:13 in your video.

IF this is so then you measured the open voltage of the secondary coil wires via the 10 Ohm. Agree? When say open voltage it is very close to the thruth because the actual load is the probe's 1 MegaOhm inner resistance across its black and red clips, and the 10 Ohm is in series with this 1 MOhm, ok?

I have just seached for this Velleman HPS140 scope manual but unfortunately it is not described how to measure audio power with it? Because in the Features list it is mentioned: Audio Power Measurement in 2Ω, 4Ω, 8Ω, 16Ω & 32Ω
Do you know how to do it with this scope?
HPS140 - Features - Index
HPS140 - Specifications - Index
and here is the manual:
http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/u...40-hps140i.pdf

I assume there a much more detailed manual in software form on a CD? from which it turns out how the audio power could be measured across these resistors: 2Ω, 4Ω, 8Ω, 16Ω & 32Ω

Gyula

[gyula]

Hi mr.clean,

I found a forum on this HPS140 scope where the audio power measurement is discussed:
Support Forum (EN/FR) • View topic - audio power measurement

So Velleman Support says to use say a 8 Ohm power resistor at the output of the audio amplifier. This means there is no way that scope's probe could be inserted in series with the 8 Ohm and the the audio output connections. This leaves the only option of measuring across the 8 Ohm resistor with the probe clips. So you can measure correctly the secondary power in your setup across the 10 Ohm (or you can use 100 Ohm or 1000 Ohm of course) and calculate power from (V*V)/R provided the AC wave is pretty close to sinusoid, i.e. has no much distortion (overtone).

Does this audio measurement procedure cover the detailed manual info on this?

Gyula

[quantumuppercut]

hmm ok that is interesting, so ur saying the v could be different between cap as opposed to other side of cap?

i still dont see how i could get the bulbs so bright with this little input tho, anyway the work continues

Hey Mr.Clean. Not sure what you mean but if you wonder how 2 volts could light up 3 volts. I think 2 V is RMS so the peak maybe higher. LED load maybe different than resistors loading though. They maybe OU itself. lol

[quantumuppercut]

Hi quantumuppercut,

Thanks for pointing out my error, I mistyped the result of multiplication from the calculator display when I wrote it in my answer.
Also, last night it was not known here that mr.clean tuned to resonance and that his last night's measured data were referring to that, so power factor is not really an issue when resonance is the case.

Hi mr.Clean,

Sorry for my typo in input power number last night, so it was 39.4mW input and 31mW output what your last night data represented. Thanks for your hard work.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

I hope it's not an issue, but it's good to take Level's precaution on power factor.

[mr.clean]

In your video you wrote in the caption at 2:57
"Correction, the resistor is still conncted but now in series connection, with the end of one secondary 1 with probe "

and you say there open voltage in the wires if I got it correctly, ok?

If yes, then the only way I can understand this measurement is that you lifted up one leg of the 10 Ohm resistor from the board, clipped the probe black crocodyle onto the lifted leg of the resistor, shown at 3:13 in your video.

IF this is so then you measured the open voltage of the secondary coil wires via the 10 Ohm. Agree? When say open voltage it is very close to the thruth because the actual load is the probe's 1 MegaOhm inner resistance across its black and red clips, and the 10 Ohm is in series with this 1 MOhm, ok?

I have just seached for this Velleman HPS140 scope manual but unfortunately it is not described how to measure audio power with it? Because in the Features list it is mentioned: Audio Power Measurement in 2Ω, 4Ω, 8Ω, 16Ω & 32Ω
Do you know how to do it with this scope?
HPS140 - Features - Index
HPS140 - Specifications - Index
and here is the manual:
http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/u...40-hps140i.pdf

I assume there a much more detailed manual in software form on a CD? from which it turns out how the audio power could be measured across these resistors: 2Ω, 4Ω, 8Ω, 16Ω & 32Ω

Gyula

WoW you know a lot about the insides of scopes!

ok well im gonna just keep on working on things and see what happens, good luck to everyone in their own experimenting

[quantumuppercut]

Looks like there is about 50mA running in the secondary. That means about +50mA running in the primary. Let's say we have 80mA RMS in the primary and winding resistance is 2 Ohms. We can add another .012 to the output which makes it OU. lol

[mr.clean]

Ah, ok, I think I see where you may be getting tripped up. Maybe if you look at it this way it will help. For measuring input power delivered to the transformer primary, we are concerned with power delivered to the primary winding, so we use the voltage measured across the primary winding times the current going into the primary winding to get the Apparent power. When we are measuring power output to the load, we are concerned with the power delivered to the load, which in this case is the 10 ohm load resistor, so we are concerned with the voltage across the load resistor multiplied by the current through the load resistor. This will give us the power consumed by the load resistor. I don't know if that is any clearer, but I hope that makes it a bit clearer why the calculations were done that way.

yes thats a great explanation!

hey does anyone happen to know the characteristics and exact reasons why LEDs happen to be so efficient?
looking closely at them, there is no connection inside like filaments use, how the hell do they work?