Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[citfta]

Confused

Hi Tinmanpower,

I am sorry but you have some confused ideas about ohms law. Resistance does not change with a change in voltage. Also your example is incorrect.

In the first place you are overloading your power supply. You said your theoretical supply could supply 12 volts at 1 amp. If you apply that to a 10 ohm load you would get 1.2 amps which is more than your theoretical supply can supply.

Now lets try it with a 20 ohm resistor. Since we are not overloading the power supply it will now apply 12 volts to the resistor at .6 amps. This figure comes directly from ohms law:
I = V/R. Now change the resistor to 40 ohms. Now the current will drop to .3 amps but the voltage will still be the voltage supplied by the power supply = 12 volts.

Now you may be thinking about voltage drop across a resistor that is part of a circuit. Lets use a simple 12 volt DC circuit. If we have a 12 volt bulb that draws 1 amp that means the resistance of that bulb is 12 ohms. Now lets put a 12 ohm resistor in series with our bulb. We now have a total resistance of 24 ohms so our total current is now .5 amps and our voltage drop across the resistor is 6 volts. This again is from ohms law : V = IR. Now change the resistor to 36 ohms. Now our total circuit resistance is 48 ohms and therefore our current is I = V/R or .25 amps. And our voltage across the resistor is V = IR or 9 volts. So yes changing the resistance of a resistor that is part of a circuit can change the voltage drop across that resistor. But that is not the same as saying changing the voltage will change the resistance. I hope this has helped you to understand the difference.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[boguslaw]

I don't know where to ask so I'm asking here. Could someone point me to the documents describing capacitor discharge ? I want to compute the current from capacitor discharge which depends on resistance of circuit. I know that was a equation to find it but I want strictly to choose mosfet for capacitive discharge and I'm not sure if anyone can withstand the initial discharge current level (which I must compute from resistance of circuit but I lost equation). I would appreciate for any help.

[LaserSaber]

@Farmhand

I just watched your "Boost Converter" video. Very nice! I subscribed to your channel and look forward to following your research. Sorry if I sounded bugged at you. Your channel has a lot of good videos and I look forward to learning from your work.

[mr.clean]

Hi Ein~+ein. Thanks for the info. People who are developing new products will often tend to be very careful about releasing too much detail about their products under development, especially if they do not hold a patent on their invention. Even patent applications may leave out some key pieces of info so as to make it difficult for others to replicate just based on the info provided in the patent application. For this reason, I would be hesitant to contact Thane Heins directly regarding getting more details about replicating his bi-toroid transformer effect unless he invited me to do so. However, if Thane Heins were interested in sharing more details on how to reproduce his bi-toroid transformer effect, I would certainly be interested. I will check out the other info you provided a link to as well.

P.S. Thane Heins seems to be focusing mainly on his electric motor and electric generator ideas these days, from what I can gather. I haven't heard much about Thane Heins' BTT in the last couple of years or so. Not sure if he is still working on that or if he scrapped the idea altogether...

Thane's new channel is PDICanada1, and hes got some motor demos in front of people, but no more R&D stuff, all taken down... i saved some vids but never enough

[Gedfire]

New Donald Smith Video

If I am thinking of the same video that you are referring to, a guy with long hair and a beard and a black baseball cap asked about whether electronic circuit simulation programs such as Spice could reproduce the effects that Don Smith claims with his devices. I believe Don Smith answered that yes, they could if the circuit was modelled as an open system rather than a closed system. Maybe you are talking about a different video though. If you are talking about a different video, do you have a link to an online copy of the video?

One of the ways Don Smith has suggested reducing the voltage from the secondaries was with a sparkgap or a GDT (gas discharge tube). He may have suggested other ways as well.

Actually the video was removed I believe because of copy right violation I suggest you contact soundiceuk for more info.It will be worth your while.


The video is the 2005 inventors weekend.Excellent question and answer session.

But can I make a tesla coil that gives 24 volts output?

Also, how can I modify the neon sign transformer to give me 24 volts? Anyone?

How would you place the GDT SG etc to feed the cap 24 volts or can i just feed it 2500 volts at 35khz and just adjust grounding?

Ged

[mr.clean]

Regarding the part in bold, because there is a step up in voltage or a step up
in current or a concentration of power. Better impedance matching maybe.

I can take a 12 volt battery that will not light up a 24 volt bulb properly on
it's own,very little current is caused and so the output power is low but with
the use of a boost converter circuit I can light 2 x 24 volt bulbs with 24 volts,
and the output power is much more because I matched the load impedance.

That is the very purpose of a transformer.

Cheers

very useful to know as usual

hey one thing i did yesterday was test a reg MOT at lowest possible input with the tuning LEDs vs my bitoroid, and i got better output at the same input V with Bitoroid.

granted the primaries are not the same, but at the very least its interesting
anyway.

Hey Farmhand have you worked with any of Dons specific designs?

Wondering what you have observed with coil winding directions, i get interesting results with both, but what would you say is best for primary and dual secondary?

[mr.clean]

Some puzzling questions about common things:
What was D. Smith intentions with winding secondary coil in same magnetic poles as two parts of coils are on left/right hand directions?
What magnetic fields polarity make two secondary coils in BiToroid then joining paths between them?
What magnetic polarity E.Leedskalnin's PMH coils make and how it related to his generator magnets?

The thruth is out there...

i wonder the same thing about Don's design, its like a hv/hf version of Tesla's fig1 of #336,961 patent where L2s are CW CW...
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Mat...sla_patent.pdf

The CW CCW winding was fig2 of the same patent, one wire was specifically more turns

Then the fig3 was the integration of BOTH and resembles KAPANADZE in that sense

anyway, my point is Tesla notated the outer L2 ends A and B are pos and neg respectively, and the center tap he called "auxiliary" brush C.

what are your thoughts on that?

ALSO, since i have used these 30kv20mA diodes, i have been able to connect all the HV ends together on my drivers, and have run the spark gap outside of the LC (like Dons) and saw some incredible things...

...i can light a Neon from the furthest distances ive EVER been able to...
...it gives the most intense burns on L2
...it cant power directly off L2, BUT can charge up caps very fast!
...stable light hissing sound and constant arc at full freq, uninterrupted by a charge/discharge of spark inside LC.

So..now im very confused, does Don's board work as he had displayed it, but none of us have completed it EXACTLY as he did?

And its so "Tesla"... Tesla himself described self-excitation using a separate coil in iron and how...
..." by combining brushes A,B and C, the current developed can be regulated to the demands in the working circuit"... N.Tesla

...sounds a little like Don said it would "correct itself"

anyway with the right diodes, mine from amazing1.com 30kv20mA (single diode, not string) people can put the HV ends together and may find some great stuff
AND if i run the primary as i have been with spark inside LC, i recently added 3 of the 30kv20mA diodes, as they have been gettig extremely HOT, no they seem to be still quite warm but not as alarmingly hot, point is this is 1800watts of current handling (30,000 x .06) and still im questioning the rating

...its a good problem to have, but does anyone know the reason the diodes are so hot? to much forward, or backward current?

also im gonna re-build the bitoroid on Metglass or iron very soon, and its gonna be built to perform, if it can.. and plug right into the wall, or inverter !

[Allen Burgess]

Diodes

@Mr. Clean,

Diodes are like one way resistors. They have power and voltage ratings like resistors, 1/4 watt 1/2 Watt 50 to 500 volts etc. Try higher rated componants.

[Farmhand]

You must really have no clue what my goal was when I made the SJR 2.0 circuit. In my videos about the SJR circuit I have stated that my goal is to see how much light output I can produce on the amount of current my inverter idles at. My inverters use between 200mA - 500mA of current at idle with no load. I achieved my goal and have been using the SJR circuit to run lights in my solar workshop ever since. You really should inform yourself as to what a person’s stated goals are before you engage them in discussion, as it will help you to appear to have more intelligence.



Again, if you knew anything about the SJR 2.0 and later circuits you would know that they use no power when the load is removed. They auto shut down when the light is flipped off. All this while using only a single 2n3055, so there is very little component loss.



Yes, I can add or remove lights up until the point where the current draw starts to overheat the 2N3055. The more lights added the less gain you get over a regular inverter. A good inverter with 90 percent efficiency is fine while running at it’s optimum load. However, with smaller loads there is a loss of efficiency because of the 500mA idle current. This is why in my both my workshop and my SOLN1 device I have included a regular inverter as well as a SJR. If you want to just run a few LED light bulbs you can use the SJR and achieve a longer runtime on the battery pack. If you need to run a heavy load you can use the inverter. Can you understand this?



I have experimented with running AC motors with some success. I have heard reports of scaled up SJRs running motors overseas, where I would guess the current is 220v. The only reason I made the comparison video with the inverter was because some random guy on youtube got in an argument with me. He said that if I did a test where I lit a bulb on the inverter and then lit the same bulb on the SJR while doing lux measurements, I would see that the SJR uses more energy for the same lumens output.



At this point, I could care less what you are interested in. You came on this forum saying that I was spreading hype. It’s like you think that I have claimed overunity and must now prove it to you. I have never claimed to have achieved overunity on any of my projects.



Yes, of coarse! Imagine that you have two equal glasses, one full of water and one empty. If you transfer the water between the cups you will have some loss but never any gain. In this case, efficiency would be a measurement of how completely you are able to transfer the water. It sounds like you think a way may be discovered to get more water out of the first cup than you started with and you want to measure the extra amount of water very, very carefully.

It is very easy to do efficiency measurements while experimenting. You will most likely never create a very efficient device if you do not take measurements while experimenting. This is why I always experiment on projects with an ammeter between a battery and a large capacitor with my device connected to the capacitor. The closer the meter gets to zero the better, but if I ever see it go negative I will not waist time measuring the effect - I will be trying to discover where the extra energy is coming from! I do not believe in any free energy scheme where new energy is created within the device. That would be like getting more water in the second cup than you started with in the first cup. If we ever discover a cup of water that when tipped on edge continues pouring out water non-stop, while Farmhand is taking carful measurements, I will be locating and identifying the water source.



I and many others have and when we saw efficiencies above 90 percent we just started using it. Because of the circuits simplicity, its ability to give practical light at the idle current of most inverters and it’s low cost it is well worth using right along side a traditional inverter in projects such as the SOLN1.




It’s a well know fact that with the SJR 2.0 and later models the input usually drops to zero with no load. Did you even watch my videos or do you think you can just make uninformed judgments about people and their motives?



That would completly depend on the AH capacity of the battery, now, wouldn't it? At this point I cannot believe I am even still answering these questions.



You light a 40 Watt Equivalent 7.5 Watt Utilitech Pro bulb to full brightness from the plastic case of your battery or even with a homebuilt inverter at around half an amp on a 12v battery and we will all be very interested, in the mean time your battery case trick has no practicle use to me.



I and many others do that sort of testing frequently and the results have been reported freely on the forums and youtube. Again, you act as if I have to support some extraordinary claims or something.



If it was equal in usefulness in all situations then why do you think I would be including a regular inverter in the SOLN1? Why do you think I have a regular inverter that I have proudly shown in my youtube videos in my shop working in harmony with the SJR. Think about that for a few hours and see if you can come up with an answer.



Fine. You go find an “overunity” device and replicate that and take measurements to your hearts content. While you spend the rest of your life doing that, I will be out flying my working replication of a home built solar charged paraglider, starting my car with boostcaps, lighting my workshop with SJR technology and taking my whole house off the grid.

Regardless of your intentions (which are noble) many people see your circuits
as OU and this creates hype, a statement of actual efficiency would go a long
way to dispel this or justify it..

Ok so I understand the motive for the inverter comparison. I was unaware of
your motives in that respect, i guess I was blinded by the hype. I don't watch
your video's because of all the implied OU, I'm not saying you imply it but, it
exists.

As far as the run time goes I was referring to the issue of transistor
heating if it is an issue, sorry I wasn't clear on that, my bad.

I would have thought that "Kapanadze Type Behavior" was a bit "hypish"
considering Kapanadze is all hype and no proof.

You misunderstand me I have ample free energy. I'm not looking for over
unity.

I'm just sick of all the bogus claims of OU and the hype surrounding normal
things.

I never said your stuff was bad or not useful. I am saying many people have
the impression your devices are OU. So I will ask the question directly to you.
Are they ? Any of them ? If efficiency tests have been done then the answers
should be short. If the answer is yes would you show evidence if it is
recorded please. You have no obligation to answer any questions if you don't
want to. But I have right to ask them.

Many conventional devices are close to 100% efficient, all the idle input of a
regular transformer is not losses when the transformer is loaded, at least not
for good ones.

Anyway it makes no never mind to me, bottom line is many people think your
stuff is OU, and you do nothing to prove or disprove it. I apologize if I made
incorrect assumptions.

So I ask the direct questions above. I think we have a responsibility in this
field to report the actual measured efficiency of devices presented, if we
have the means to do so.

Cheers

P.S. If I find a device that I think is useful over unity I will surely attempt
replication (never look a gift horse in the mouth). Until then I'll do my own
thing, I can already build under unity devices, so I don't need to waste time
replicating them.

..

[quantumuppercut]

Measurement is meaningless these days. There are many other groups with much more sophisticated equipment, yet no one will satisfy. Even if it show OU, it must be high frequency spike low sampling inductance transient noise generating error. I say just concentrate on making your circuit better and more efficient and try looping it when you think it's ready or know how. I wouldn't worry about others, there are always those who hype up and always those who dwindle further from OU. No one is responsible for their "hypeness" or "envyness" or whatever it is. Everyman should handle himself.

[mr.clean]

@Mr. Clean,

Diodes are like one way resistors. They have power and voltage ratings like resistors, 1/4 watt 1/2 Watt 50 to 500 volts etc. Try higher rated componants.

hehe yes, what i was getting at was that with 1800 watts of current handling in the diodes, but the max output of the transformer im using is 283 watts, and it was at half voltage

just that i shouldnt have a problem with overheating these diodes, and i am for some reason
anyway i will have some new stuff soon, i think for fun i will light some of these diodes on fire to show people next vid, and my new observations with spark outside LC

[Farmhand]

Measurement is meaningless these days. There are many other groups with much more sophisticated equipment, yet no one will satisfy. Even if it show OU, it must be high frequency spike low sampling inductance transient noise generating error. I say just concentrate on making your circuit better and more efficient and try looping it when you think it's ready or know how. I wouldn't worry about others, there are always those who hype up and always those who dwindle further from OU. No one is responsible for their "hypeness" or "envyness" or whatever it is. Everyman should handle himself.

But how can something "show" OU without accurate measurement, there is no
reason the measurements should be difficult, at least not those that can be
measured as DC in and DC out.

1. Smooth the input battery with a big capacitor.
2. Rectify and smooth the output and apply a resistive load.
3. Use a reasonable input power for the measuring instruments and size the resistors for the current/realistic load resistance and power.
4. Measure the input and output power using current sensing resistor for the
input current and measure the output using a purely resistive load resistor
(which can be in series with a resistive load) the voltage for the output power
calculation is still made between the output terminals..

The power dissipated by the current sensing resistor and the rectifiers can be
calculated also and considered as output along with the power dissipated by
the load resistor. . These losses would not occur if not for the measurement
being taken and so are output.

If that can't be done then how could anyone possibly know if something was
showing OU or just appearing to show OU.

The process is simple and unless an AC input is used there is no need for an
oscilloscope, except to check for the level of DC ripple. A bit of ripple
shouldn't matter much, and in some cases might be difficult to avoid.

Since I'm only a beginner as well, maybe I should make a video clip to show
how easy it is, I have a Bedini oscillator of some power I could use, just to be
unbiased. The efficiency of my Bedini oscillator should not be taken as a
reflection of That type of oscillator in general, it's not the best example.

Cheers

[LaserSaber]

I never said your stuff was bad or not useful. I am saying many people have
the impression your devices are OU. So I will ask the question directly to you.
Are they ? Any of them ? If efficiency tests have been done then the answers
should be short. If the answer is yes would you show evidence if it is
recorded please. You have no obligation to answer any questions if you don't
want to. But I have right to ask them.

No, none of my device are overunity as I understand the term. I do believe that there are many new and novel sources of energy that have practical value. If any device ever appears to be overunity I can tell you for certain that the extra energy is coming from a source and when that source is discovered it will make logical sense.

See what Tesla has to say on this point:

On that occasion I frankly told the engineers of a defect involved in the transformation by the new
method, namely, the loss in the spark gap. Subsequent investigation showed that no matter what
medium is employed, be it air, hydrogen, mercury vapor, oil or a stream of electrons, the
efficiency is the same. It is a law very much like that governing the conversion of mechanical
energy. We may drop a weight from a certain height vertically down or carry it to the lower level
along any devious path, it is immaterial insofar as the amount of work is concerned. Fortunately
however, this drawback is not fatal as by proper proportioning of the resonant circuits an
efficiency of 85 per cent is attainable.

My Inventions
Nikola Tesla's Autobiography

[mr.clean]

The voltage rating on the diode would likely be the maximum peak reverse voltage the diode can sustain without getting damaged. The forward voltage drop on an ordinary silicon diode is only around 0.7V or so, depending on the exact type of diode. The forward voltage drop on a high voltage diode may be a bit different. To determine the power being dissipated by the diode, you multiply the forward voltage drop of the diode by the current that is passing through the diode. Basically if you are conducting about 15 mA or more through the 20 mA diode, it will probably start to get warm or hot. If the forward voltage drop is in the vicinity of 0.7V, the max power dissipation at 20 mA is only about 14 mW. You can get high voltage diodes that have a higher forward current rating, but they can start to get a bit pricey.

For example:
30KV 2A High Voltage Diode

BTW, what do you mean when you say you have the 'spark inside the LC'?

ok thanks, im familiar with the v drop thru most diodes with exception of some, but the thing is that these diodes i mean are on the output coils, not the input trafo HV,
i just think it strange

by "inside LC" i mean usually you see primary spark arrangements in series or parallel spark gap, with Don's popular double helix board
(aka pat#336,961 fig1 in so called modern form)
...the HV ends run together via 2 forward facing diodes...
... leading to one end of the primary with parallel cap...
... and ending with spark gap oddly in series with the ground
(instead of parallel gap from HV in or series with L1)

i guess if you dont play with the crazy spark gap stuff you may not be familiar with them, but putting the gap series and after the cap like Don did, it would seem like nothing is happening, but the result was a real surprise...

The freq i was tuned for, was the exact freq that parallel LC was experiencing, and ending with a small gap which is very quiet and stable, just set to drizzle an arc over it, it doesnt charge and discharge like most noisy spark gaps, which interrupt the actual driver freq with bang..bang..bang...

and at first try, with no caps on it, it seems to just burn me and not light up anything...
...then i put diodes on the ends of L2, and it charges up the 2000v surprisingly fast ...but thats about it lol

there is an intense skin effect, it still wont light up reg voltage, maybe i need one of the RF chokes Don hid in plain sight as well and be good to go

idk we'll see if the hissy spark beats the bang bang spark soon

[mr.clean]

But how can something "show" OU without accurate measurement, there is no
reason the measurements should be difficult, at least not those that can be
measured as DC in and DC out.

1. Smooth the input battery with a big capacitor.
2. Rectify and smooth the output and apply a resistive load.
3. Use a reasonable input power for the measuring instruments and size the resistors for the current/realistic load resistance and power.
4. Measure the input and output power using current sensing resistor for the
input current and measure the output using a purely resistive load resistor
(which can be in series with a resistive load) the voltage for the output power
calculation is still made between the output terminals..

The power dissipated by the current sensing resistor and the rectifiers can be
calculated also and considered as output along with the power dissipated by
the load resistor. . These losses would not occur if not for the measurement
being taken and so are output.

If that can't be done then how could anyone possibly know if something was
showing OU or just appearing to show OU.

The process is simple and unless an AC input is used there is no need for an
oscilloscope, except to check for the level of DC ripple. A bit of ripple
shouldn't matter much, and in some cases might be difficult to avoid.

Since I'm only a beginner as well, maybe I should make a video clip to show
how easy it is, I have a Bedini oscillator of some power I could use, just to be
unbiased. The efficiency of my Bedini oscillator should not be taken as a
reflection of That type of oscillator in general, it's not the best example.

Cheers

do it man im down with Bedini's stuff

off topic again but i had some luck with a shotty bedini rep i did...
i titled it cop1, that could be wrong, but...
input 12v @100ma
output 13v and rising @ 100ma on meter thru fwbr and cap (and able to light Neon on output)
...no neon lit on input... yes neon lit on output...with same current in and out, so i called it cop1
Bedini by Kurt C.O.P. 1 - YouTube