Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Farmhand]

Merry Sun God worship again everyone

to bring in more good progress this year, just wanted to share an account of Q&A with Tesla... he DID in fact say there was extra energy present...

"...
Counsel

You say the energy was 1,000 times greater. Do you mean that the voltage was increased, or the current, or both?

Tesla

Yes both. To be more explicit, I take a very large self-inductance and a comparatively small capacity, which I have constructed in a certain way so that the electricity cannot leak out. I thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy. When the high potential is attained, if I want to give off electromagnetic waves, I do so, but I prefer to reduce those waves in quantity and pass a current into the earth, because electromagnetic wave energy is not recoverable while that [earth] current is entirely recoverable, being the energy stored in an elastic system.

Counsel

What elastic system do you refer to?

Tesla

I mean this: If you pass a current into a circuit with large self-induction, and no radiation takes place, and you have a low resistance, there is no possibility of this energy getting out into space; therefore, the impressed impulses accumulate.

Counsel

Let's see if I understand this correctly. If you have radiation or electromagnetic waves going from your system, the energy is wasted?

Tesla

Absolutely wasted. From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth.

It is just like this: I have invented a knife. The knife can cut with the sharp edge. I tell the man who applies my invention, you must cut with the sharp edge. I know perfectly well you can cut butter with the blunt edge, but my knife is not intended for this. You must not make the antenna give off 90 percent in electromagnetic and 10 percent in current waves, because the electromagnetic waves are lost by the time you are a few arcs around the planet, while the current travels to the uttermost distance of the globe and can be recovered..."

(author)
This view, by the way, is now confirmed. Note, for instance, the mathematical treatise of Sommerfeld,[*] who shows that my theory is correct, that I was right in my explanations of the phenomena, and that the profession was completely misled. This is the reason why these followers of mine in high frequency currents have made a mistake. They wanted to make high frequency alternators of 200,000 cycles with the idea that they would produce electromagnetic waves, 90 percent in electromagnetic waves and the rest in current energy. I only used low alternations, and I produced 90 percent in current energy and only 10 percent in electromagnetic waves, which are wasted, and that is why I got my results. . . .


You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit. These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves. You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy. By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth. That is what I am doing. Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method. I am not producing radiation with my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated. It is not radiated; it is conserved. . . .

Hi Mr Clean, Can you bold the part where he says he get's more energy out than
he puts in ?

The energy is greater because he accumulates it inside the system which is
not output. It is just activity, oscillating energy.

Counsel

Will you pardon me for interrupting again. You spoke some time ago about getting all of the energy from your transmitting into your receiving station by this method of yours. I do not understand how you can get all of it.

Tesla

Oh, that is hardly true; I am speaking as a matter of principle. You never can get all the energy, because there is no such thing as perfect apparatus.

In other words he is saying that he can never get out all the energy he puts
in because there will always be some losses.

Now, there is a vast difference between these two, the electromagnetic and current energies. That energy which goes out in the form of rays, is, as I have indicated here [on the diagram of Fig. 82], unrecoverable, hopelessly lost. You can operate a little instrument by catching a billionth part of it but, except this, all goes out into space never to return. This other energy, however, of the current in the globe, is stored and completely recoverable. Theoretically, it does not take much effort to maintain the earth in electrical vibration. I have, in fact, worked out a plant of 10,000 horse-power which would operate with no bigger loss than 1 percent of the whole power applied; that is, with the exception of the frictional energy that is consumed in the rotation of the engines and the heating of the conductors, I would not lose more than 1 percent. In other words, if I have a 10,000 horsepower plant, it would take only 100 horsepower to keep the earth vibrating so long as there is no energy taken out at any other place.

So it cost's him 100 horsepower -1 HP = 750 Watts- 750 x 100 = 75000 Watts
just to keep the Earth oscillating with no other power taken out at any other
place. After some time with no energy taken out from any other place there
would be considerable losses, and with no output yet.
That's 75 Kw idle power input. Go figure. And when there is power taken from
another place the input would increase to maintain the oscillations. It is
a 7.5 Mega Watt or 7,500,000 Watt system he is describing..

.......

Just like this.

This is the circuit.


These are the measurements, the input is about 3.3 Watts continuous, I
measure oscillating power of 140 var and a peak power of 644 Watts.
There was no output when the measurements were made.

The energy within the system is much greater than the 3.36 joules per second input.



And this is a scope shot from the same setup but not for measurement this shot was taken from the mosfet drain (coil negative to circuit ground)
Yellow trace is the primary (direct connection).
Blue trace is the secondary from a remote probe about 400 mm away.


Cheers

[Dave45]

Here's a patent that talks about radiation suppression, In the patent he is using copper pipes around the coils to stop radiation.

Where did you find the qna by Tesla
ELECTROMAGNETIC ELECTRIC GENERATOR

[mr.clean]

Hi Farmhand,

Counsel

Speaking of your not having perfectly undamped waves at that time, you were referring to that character of circuit?

Tesla

"Yes, but with another kind of circuit I could, of course. The advantage of this apparatus was the delivering of energy at short intervals whereby one could increase activity, and with this scheme I was able to perform all of those wonderful experiments which have been reprinted from time to time in the technical papers. I would take energy out of a circuit at rates of hundreds or thousands of horsepower. In Colorado, I reached 18 million horsepower activities, but that was always by this device: Energy stored in the condenser and discharged in an inconceivably small interval of time. You could not produce that activity with an undamped wave.

The damped wave is of advantage because it gives you, with a generator of 1 kilowatt, an activity of 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 kilowatts; whereas, if you have a continuous or undamped wave, 1 kilowatt gives you only wave energy at the rate of 1 kilowatt and nothing more. That is the reason why the system with a quenched gap has become popular.

I have refined this so that I have been able to take energy out of engines by drawing on their momentum. For instance, if the engine is of 200 horsepower, I take the energy out for a minute interval of time, at a rate of 5,000 or 6,000 horsepower, then I store [it] in a condenser and discharge the same at the rate of several millions of horsepower. That is how these wonderful effects are produced. The condenser is the most wonderful instrument, as I have stated in my writings, because it enables us to attain greater activities than are practical with explosives. There is no limit to the energy which you can develop with a condenser. There is a limit to the energy which you can develop with an explosive...."

(end of quote)

WoW eh, so with a tuned and damped wave ...
( to cut the ringing by Quenching... to make way for more ringing, at a rate faster than naturally and unquenched)

he said "1 Kw in,
and 1,2 3,4,5 kW out..

and i saw he said the word Horsepower, and amplifification to even larger magnitudes, (using ?Radio devices? described)

anyway, rest assured, i believe Tesla woudve given up the chase if there were no "above normal" results

not just 1:1 - losses

[bboj]

I think that the second quote means exactly the same what What Farmhand spoke about.
200 horsepower motors gaining moment and than feeding condenser in short intervals.
Finaly the condenser is discharged fully at million of horsepowers.

[soundiceuk]

There is a very wise experimentor in this thread that remains silent.

I have seen some of his amazing experiments and he tells me of his success with COP much greater than 1.

I may have got my wires crossed but I think I can see something in the texts that Mr Clean posted that fits some of the text from one of his emails to me.


Sorry if this is not relevant guys. Hopefully it is.


"It's kind of strange they understand how to get the voltage up but can't figure out how to get it back down again.... The act of discharging the caps into a coil, by it's nature, will convert voltage to amps. It's a matter of getting the inductance right... when you discharge a cap into a coil 90% of voltage is converted to amperage leaving around 10% of the voltage intact. So if your discharging say 1000 volts into a transformer you end up with around 100 volts and the amperage conversion is based on the coils inductance and frequency of discharge. People tend to think that their output is 1000 volts so they would need to step it down through a transformer 10 to 1 when in fact they only need a 1:1 isolation transformer or a 1:1.2 step up for 120 volt output with reasonably high current capability, low resistance windings.

I don't think what I'm doing is all that exotic in as much as it's using basic techniques and manipulating time. If you look at the "trumpet" wave that everyone is seeking - it's basically time manipulation where the system is using a small input to accumulate energy then at it's peak we discharge it. So if our system is running at 1.095 Mhz charging a cap and we discharge that cap at say 60 hz we have a period of time that we can accumulate and store it's output between discharge cycles. In this case it would be 18,250 input pulses to 1 discharge pulse. If our cap has 20 joules stored per 18,250 pulses we only need a tiny amount of energy per input pulse then we can discharge that all at once into a load. 20 joules x 60 hz = 1200 watts of activity. Input requirement is .0011 Joules per pulse.

The only thing that might be considered "exotic" might be my use of the earth to harness the extra current flow."

Cheers,

Paul

[Farmhand]

Hi Mr Clean, Tesla talks about several different systems in that court case.

He is explaining bit by bit how he came to the final arrangement in the last transmission patent.

Power is not energy and oscillating power in a system is not output.
Activity is oscillating power, not output, big difference.

He explains quite clearly that all the energy cannot be got back out.

Counsel

Will you pardon me for interrupting again. You spoke some time ago about getting all of the energy from your transmitting into your receiving station by this method of yours. I do not understand how you can get all of it.

Tesla

Oh, that is hardly true; I am speaking as a matter of principle. You never can get all the energy, because there is no such thing as perfect apparatus.

And how do you explain the 75 Kw idle power ? When the system is fired up there is an instant and continuous loss of 75 Kw.

Now, there is a vast difference between these two, the electromagnetic and current energies. That energy which goes out in the form of rays, is, as I have indicated here [on the diagram of Fig. 82], unrecoverable, hopelessly lost. You can operate a little instrument by catching a billionth part of it but, except this, all goes out into space never to return. This other energy, however, of the current in the globe, is stored and completely recoverable. Theoretically, it does not take much effort to maintain the earth in electrical vibration. I have, in fact, worked out a plant of 10,000 horse-power which would operate with no bigger loss than 1 percent of the whole power applied; that is, with the exception of the frictional energy that is consumed in the rotation of the engines and the heating of the conductors, I would not lose more than 1 percent. In other words, if I have a 10,000 horsepower plant, it would take only 100 horsepower to keep the earth vibrating so long as there is no energy taken out at any other place.

Cheers

[mr.clean]

There is a very wise experimentor in this thread that remains silent.

I have seen some of his amazing experiments and he tells me of his success with COP much greater than 1.

I may have got my wires crossed but I think I can see something in the texts that Mr Clean posted that fits some of the text from one of his emails to me.


Sorry if this is not relevant guys. Hopefully it is.


"It's kind of strange they understand how to get the voltage up but can't figure out how to get it back down again.... The act of discharging the caps into a coil, by it's nature, will convert voltage to amps. It's a matter of getting the inductance right... when you discharge a cap into a coil 90% of voltage is converted to amperage leaving around 10% of the voltage intact. So if your discharging say 1000 volts into a transformer you end up with around 100 volts and the amperage conversion is based on the coils inductance and frequency of discharge. People tend to think that their output is 1000 volts so they would need to step it down through a transformer 10 to 1 when in fact they only need a 1:1 isolation transformer or a 1:1.2 step up for 120 volt output with reasonably high current capability, low resistance windings.

I don't think what I'm doing is all that exotic in as much as it's using basic techniques and manipulating time. If you look at the "trumpet" wave that everyone is seeking - it's basically time manipulation where the system is using a small input to accumulate energy then at it's peak we discharge it. So if our system is running at 1.095 Mhz charging a cap and we discharge that cap at say 60 hz we have a period of time that we can accumulate and store it's output between discharge cycles. In this case it would be 18,250 input pulses to 1 discharge pulse. If our cap has 20 joules stored per 18,250 pulses we only need a tiny amount of energy per input pulse then we can discharge that all at once into a load. 20 joules x 60 hz = 1200 watts of activity. Input requirement is .0011 Joules per pulse.

The only thing that might be considered "exotic" might be my use of the earth to harness the extra current flow."

Cheers,

Paul

hi Paul actually i think that engineer friend of yours wrote that, and you forwarded it to me a while back

but either way, its cool info!

it seems there are always factors that stay constant, coils, tuning, certain ratios, timing, grounding, etc..
and all of these factors
Kapanadze was very serious about his grounding as well as Tesla.

Tesla once wrote how he buried a 20" x 20" metal plate 12 ft down, and still didnt get the reaction he wanted.
But i could read his excitement when he did get things how he wanted

@ Farmhand
lol it seems we both can take words from context and make points in either direction, but either way, it sure is fun to read Tesla saying 1kw in and up to 5kw out

and maybe i missed where it mentioned something idling at 75kw LOL
i tend to think that no power should be used "idling".
(but it is interesting to observe a diminish)
i think THE answer to the "idle" controversy is,
... the load is hooked up... or dont run it...
then it's Zero, or it's running and is efficient... or not

[Farmhand]

hi Paul actually i think that engineer friend of yours wrote that, and you forwarded it to me a while back

but either way, its cool info!

it seems there are always factors that stay constant, coils, tuning, certain ratios, timing, grounding, etc..
and all of these factors
Kapanadze was very serious about his grounding as well as Tesla.

Tesla once wrote how he buried a 20" x 20" metal plate 12 ft down, and still didnt get the reaction he wanted.
But i could read his excitement when he did get things how he wanted

@ Farmhand
lol it seems we both can take words from context and make points in either direction, but either way, it sure is fun to read Tesla saying 1kw in and up to 5kw out

and maybe i missed where it mentioned something idling at 75kw LOL
i tend to think that no power should be used "idling".
(but it is interesting to observe a diminish)
i think THE answer to the "idle" controversy is,
... the load is hooked up... or dont run it...
then it's Zero, or it's running and is efficient... or not

Where does he say 1 Kw in and 5 Kw out ?

Anyway I'm done with pointless argument.

You can think whatever you like. It's a free world as far as thoughts go.

Going by your OU claims I doubt many people put much weight in your
opinions. And I care not what people think of my opinions. I'm not looking for
approval or ratings, I'm giving my opinion based on my research and
experiments.

I've explained well enough my opinions on this matter, continuous argument is
pointless.

If you think you have some over 100 % performance be prepared to back it up
with a drawing and proper measurements.

If or when I make an over 100% performance claim I think the right people will take notice.

Anyway this is a Tesla Device discussion in a thread about Don Smith why not go to the Eric Dollard thread and put it to them.

Mentioning Nikola Tesla in the same sentence as Don Smith has left a bad taste in my mouth.


Cheers
..

[mr.clean]

Where does he say 1 Kw in and 5 Kw out ?

Anyway I'm done with pointless argument.

You can think whatever you like. It's a free world as far as thoughts go.

Going by your OU claims I doubt many people put much weight in your
opinions. And I care not what people think of my opinions. I'm not looking for
approval or ratings, I'm giving my opinion based on my research and
experiments.

I've explained well enough my opinions on this matter, continuous argument is
pointless.

If you think you have some over 100 % performance be prepared to back it up
with a drawing and proper measurements.

If or when I make an over 100% performance claim I think the right people will take notice.

Anyway this is a Tesla Device discussion in a thread about Don Smith why not go to the Eric Dollard thread and put it to them.

Mentioning Nikola Tesla in the same sentence as Don Smith has left a bad taste in my mouth.


Cheers
..

Hello
yes this thread is a real mix, but whatever, i like that people show me stuff that i wouldve missed otherwise.

the excerpts i was sharing were from a typewritten account of Tesla answering questions, as u prob know.

We can speculate as to what Tesla meant by "activity", but to me its the same thing, as Tesla has also written, "the appearance of electrical power" insinuating it was a usable power, but was different from conventional power.

here is the part i was refering to.. and i typo'd he wrote 5000 Kilo watts, not just 5 Kw LOL

"...You could not produce that activity with an undamped wave. The damped wave is of advantage because it gives you, with a generator of 1 kilowatt, an activity of 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 kilowatts;

...whereas, if you have a continuous or undamped wave...

...1 kilowatt gives you only wave energy at the rate of 1 kilowatt and nothing more. That is the reason why the system with a quenched gap has become popular...

...I have refined this so that I have been able to take energy out of engines by drawing on their momentum. For instance, if the engine is of 200 horsepower, I take the energy out for a minute interval of time, at a rate of 5,000 or 6,000 horsepower, then I store [it] in a condenser and discharge the same at the rate of several millions of horsepower...."

and hey, i dont give a $hit if people are blunt about things, but its pretty ignorant for you to say i have made any "claims " of overunity.

i like to share what im doing and seeing, cause no-one else cares but here, sometimes things appear to be so close its hard to tell, that in itself is good results, but im just showing what im up to, and if i see extraordinary results i try to quantify as well as i can,

and with a few things im working on, looks like im getting more light than expected, and get more brightness on output of system than from output of driver alone (clearly a benefit)

but i only show what im seeing, and yes i have encountered above unity calculations based on the settings on my input, and they may dictate OU, but i would never come out and say that LOL

and maybe im way off, or naive, or just my spirit isn't defeated yet, idk but when i gave up on the DIY crap, and got a decent driver, and tune things up a bit, i started to actually see some results
Don Smith Device Project Part 31: 3 Watts In, 20 Watt Halogen Lit Bright - YouTube

and i DO believe that more out than in is possible... more and more successful replications are popping up... obviously TK, but others too now,
free energy KWatts of power from Tariel Kapanadze - Transparent Box Video Full Version - YouTube
Вечный двиготель - репликатор Капанадзе!!! - YouTube
KAPANADZE REPLICATION ?????? 2012.01.14. - YouTube

yes a permanent argument is pointless, especially to argue further given the above demonstrations, rather than find solutions (as they have)

oh, and if Don had nothing to do with resonant induction, then we could leave Tesla out of your "breath", but they are inevitably interconnected

anyway, lets look for more solutions to how things CAN work, rather than dwell on the things we know that haven't worked.

[Dave45]

Farmhand your grouchy
Someone trys to befriend you, shows interest in your work, and you turn around and snap at them
Lighten up bro , I hope we are on the same team

Kurt you keep the faith my friend, its just around the bend

Tell me something guys, if we have two coils single winding one wound cw and the other ccw, if these coils were pulsed separately would they put out the same electromagnetic wave, I think not.
You see we dont need two frequency's we need to different electromagnetic waves.

[boguslaw]

One wise man (Steven Mark) once said:

"Imagine that you have a cannon which fires a projectile at a velocity of 1000
miles an hour.
The amount of energy held in the moving projectile until converted is let�s say figure of ten.
It will never become more than our figure of ten.
The energy will slowly dissipate until the projectile slows and begins to fall to
the ground and It�s final dissipation will occur when it strikes the earth or the
object it was aimed at.
Now, we have been told that there will never be more energy available from
the projectile other then what was given to it whenfirst fired into the sky,

EXCEPT for the following example:
Now, there can be a further dissipation of energy if the projectile was carrying a charge of dynamite to explode on impact as well.
Do you see how different things all relate here?
Let me expand your mind for a moment�..
Suppose that the projectile which you fired was another cannon? Now you
have another canon travelling at 1000 miles an hour�.
Now, if you could fire the second cannon, the projectile coming from it would
be traveling at a velocity of 1000 miles an hour after being fired. However, since the canon is already traveling at a speed of 1000 miles an hour when you fire it, the speed of the second fired projectile is essentiallynow 2000 miles per hour and the energy available to convert from the second projectile, is now twice the ten available from the first projectile!
You now have energy availability of twenty to convert from the second
projectile. Now, what if the projectile fired from the second cannon were another cannon and you fired it.
Since the second cannon is traveling at 2000 miles per hour then the projectile you fire from it would make 3000 miles per hour, and so on and so on� The energy released from the speed of multiple projectiles increases the
energy available to be dissipated upon impact many fold! The faster the
speed of ANYTHING the more energy will be availablefor conversion.

A long time ago, I said, if you take a bullet and throw it at the side of an
automobile it will bounce off. However, if you place the bullet into a gun and
fire it at the automobile it, with sufficient velocity, go through the metal door
and through the other side because of the inertia energy available for
conversion. "

[Dave45]

This zvs circuit was shown by Mopozco in one of his vids

TROS -- "inductor"II - YouTube
This is an ingenues circuit it pulses the coils from each end and the cap catches the bemf from both coils, now the cw and ccw coils are center tapped but they dont have to be, they run through the choke and can be run separate through the choke.
If you put power through these coils as they are shown you will find they have the same pole polarity's even though they are powered at opposite ends and have an opposite wind, in effect the field sees a dc pulse as far as n and s polarity is concerned, but we get two different electromagnetic waves.

Edit: thought I should come back and clarify I am in no way saying this setup is ou, the primary's would have to be isolated for it to go ou.

[Dave45]

We'v talked about every other device here we might as well talk about the TPU

Lets look at the rf choke that SM has sitting on top of the toroid, what does a choke do, it stops rf frequency's from entering the system, hmmm it stops the reflective aether from entering the system, acts as a filter of sorts.

SM said he used a 5v dc to make ac and went on about how different frequency's could travel in the same wire including the 5v dc.

Now lets look at the mag amp http://www.themeasuringsystemofthego...amplifiers.pdf look at image 4n5 that looks like a choke wiring to me.



In a mag amp we can use a dc winding to allow ac to flow, essentially we are biasing the core.

Will a magnet placed on the mag amp (choke) bias the core.

They say he used the magnet to work a reed switch but I think he used the magnet to bias the core and allow the choke to pass higher frequency's into his system.

[Dave45]

biasing a toroidal core with a magnet
"водопроводный кран" для магнитного потока - YouTube

[Dave45]

A question for those in the know.

Im trying to build this circuit but the fets I have cant handle this much current, can I put a resistor or even a light bulb in line with the neg connection to resist such a high current draw.