Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[level]

yeah im pumped, looks like 0.84 watts running 2.00 watts. i wonder what would happen if i para the caps up to battery and keep reading?
or para the caps up to the battery and remove the battery and read the sustained load voltage?
and i just checked, 11.24v sine from center tap to outer primary leg, and same on bottom leg
from the battery, the current thru 1 ohm is not a steady DC, so the current read is actually less i think

Yeah, it's looking interesting for sure. If you put some large caps parallel to the battery it might help smooth out the current pulses coming from the battery, if you measure between the battery terminal and the smoothing caps, but if they are big current pulses it might not help that much. When you say you measured current through the 1 ohm resistor, do you mean you put the 1 ohm resistor right at either of the positive or negative battery terminals in series with the battery line?

The only thing I can think of without seeing your exact circuit diagram that might account for the extra power is if there are actually fairly large current spikes coming off the battery. If you do another video, if you can show the scope waveform across a 1 ohm resistor right at the positive or negative battery terminal, that might help clarify that. You could also try putting one of your analog ammeters (if you have one that reads lower current in the mA range) in the positive or negative battery line to compare current readings with the scope and with the DMM. The DMM may not be reading very accurately if you have high frequency current pulses coming off the battery. If everything still all checks out with these tests, then you may have something there.

I have come across some odd results in some of my experiments, but when I analyze closer I usually find something I missed or misinterpreted or mismeasured, etc. that explains it. That's why I am always hesistant to jump to any conclusions without doing lots of double checking and also trying alternate ways to confirm the measurements where possible. You can check your scope by measuring against some known voltages such as your battery terminals and the AC line voltage etc. to make sure it is measuring right, and also double check your other meters that way as well. Also you can confirm the resistance of any resistors you are measuring voltage across by measuing their resistance on an ohmmeter.

If your scope across a 1 ohm resistor in series right at one of the battery terminals along with confirmation from at least one other meter confirms the input current, then that will be really interesting. I would have to see exact details of your circuit to see what else might be going on, but it sounded like from your description in the video that your setup is pretty straightforward. I will be interested to see what the scope waveform for the batttery input current shows.

[hotrod68r]

cheers level and farmhand for your comments on the meyl-steve jackson setup.he specifies kynar wire wrap wire in the coils.i'm thinkin thats silver coated copper wire with an insulative coating.silver is 106% conductive so when the skin effect is pronounced there is less resistance where the current is.have i got that right.any thoughts on winding coils with this versus plain magnet wire. cheers again.

[level]

cheers level and farmhand for your comments on the meyl-steve jackson setup.he specifies kynar wire wrap wire in the coils.i'm thinkin thats silver coated copper wire with an insulative coating.silver is 106% conductive so when the skin effect is pronounced there is less resistance where the current is.have i got that right.any thoughts on winding coils with this versus plain magnet wire. cheers again.

Hi hotrod68r. Yeah that sounds right to me. If the wire wrap wire is silver plated and you aren't planning on running at high power, the wire wrap wire should probably have less resistive losses than a similar thickness of magnet wire. If you are plaaning on running at higher power, then you might want to go with a heavier gauge magnet wire. Not sure if the wire wrap wire would be any easier or harder to wind than magnet wire when making a pancake coil.

[Nick_Z]

I remember a while back when Otto was still with us, at OU.com, that he had mentioned that working with copper wire that had been tinned, or silver plated copper wire, was what he was using. Because the skin effect along surface of the wire would combine with the inside wire coils, and their two different metals , and produce an amplifying effect. He would also give them a steady frequency from signal generators as the input source. As batteries, once they drain in charge can also effect the device and bring it out of resonance.

[Farmhand]

Hi Farmhand. Ok on your setup and experiments and what you were able to power with it. Sounds like you have it working well. As always, I make no assumptions either way about what is really going on. It is possible that it has something to do with 'one wire power transmission' or ground transmission, but I don't know. Some experiments could likely be set up to try to get a better understanding of what is happening there. Yes, a faraday cage could well untune the transformer if it is too close to the transformer. Someone did a video on youtube where they tuned a radio receiver to the transmitter frequency and placed the radio receiver in a metal cookie tin with the lid on, and the radio receiver continued to receive the transmitted signal (you could still hear it playing). I can't recall whose video that was now however. That might be a good way to test the faraday cage effect without having to have a wire entering the faraday cage, or without having to worry about the faraday cage untuning the transmitter or receiver transformers.

P.S. I found the video I was talking about. It is by TheOldScientist.
Superluminal Scalar Waves for Communications

The tin can idea is a good one because at close range I can power my
receiver with no connection at all - completely wireless, in that case it can be
fully caged. Is it possible that the tin can was passing the signal to the
receiver capacatively ?

Was that a regular radio receiver, like a portable transistor radio ? Or was it a
crystal radio ? Because i can also get a weak signal from my local radio
transmitter on the coils with a crystal radio circuit but without any outside
antenna or ground connection, with a ground connection it's much better, but
there is no need for a dangerous aerial antenna. I'm confident one of my coils
configured as a crystal radio would work in a cage.

I've found there is two resonant points with these transformers (all of them)
there is the first resonant point where the primary and secondary waves are
in phase, and there is another resonant point at a higher frequency where the
primary and the secondary are 180 degrees out of phase, but the out of
phase mode has less voltage increase and less power as well as sharper
tuning. At the second resonant point loading the transformer secondary has
little effect on the primary but the power available is limited and less.

I think I made a clip showing the two modes, I'll see if I can find it. I see the
same thing with my larger HV transformer as well, but I tune them to the in
phase resonance because it is more effective as far as voltage and power
produced. My coils work in the 650 to 850 KHz range for in phase resonance
but the out of phase resonance is at about a couple of hundred KHz higher
than that.

Cheers

P.S. The silver coated copper wire with the PFTE or whatever it's called
insulation also helps with wire spacing because of the thicker insulation which
reduces the coils self capacitance ect. For winding small HF coils it might be
beneficial.

The chart below shows maximum skin depth frequency for different wire sizes .

American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire strength

...

[mr.clean]

new vid

excellent work Farmhand, you do really nice work!

sorry to be off topic, but i want to show my recent work on the BiTT...

Bi Toroid Technology: Measuring Input and Smoothed DC Output - YouTube

[Dave45]

excellent work Farmhand, you do really nice work!

sorry to be off topic, but i want to show my recent work on the BiTT...

Bi Toroid Technology: Measuring Input and Smoothed DC Output - YouTube

Try splitting the output into a dual rail, run one side of the rail back to loop the system and the other side for output.
outstanding

[clarence]

Possible Translation

Hello Dyatronn,

Clarence,

I have been revisiting the Smit 1- You Tube video lately to try and gather some possible information from it and I was wondering if you could possibly translate the audio part of that video into English. just thought I would check with you. It would be of great help if you could Sir.

as always, mike onward!

[level]

The tin can idea is a good one because at close range I can power my
receiver with no connection at all - completely wireless, in that case it can be
fully caged. Is it possible that the tin can was passing the signal to the
receiver capacatively ?

Was that a regular radio receiver, like a portable transistor radio ? Or was it a
crystal radio ? Because i can also get a weak signal from my local radio
transmitter on the coils with a crystal radio circuit but without any outside
antenna or ground connection, with a ground connection it's much better, but
there is no need for a dangerous aerial antenna. I'm confident one of my coils
configured as a crystal radio would work in a cage.

Hi farmhand. It was a standard type portable transistor radio. Probably a multi-band type with long wave, medium wave, and shortwave bands, and maybe the FM band. Yes, since we are dealing with the near field around the transmitter coil it seems possible that there could be a capacitive effect with the metal tins due to the near electric field, or maybe the near magnetic field is able to easily penetrate the tin and induce the signal that way. The near magnetic field may have no problem penetrating the cookie tins so that might well be how the signal is able to get through to the radio. I haven't done any experiments with faraday cages so I am not sure however how much actual influence near electric or magnetic fields could really have on a transistor radio receiver inside a tightly closed metal box. It would certainly seem to be a good idea to run tests to see how much ordinary magnetic and electric fields can penetrate a metal box.

I suspect that your crystal radio will not receive any radio signals (electromagnetic waves) inside a metal box, but you could try it to be sure, unless the radio transmitter is so close that you are well within its near field. In that case you may have a similar effect to the tesla coil near field. Not sure. The concept of scalar waves may just be ordinary effects of the near field around a transmitter or coil, but further experiments could probably be devised to see if there really are any distinct differences between ordinary magnetic and electric fields and so called longitudinal or scalar waves.

P.S. Ok on you also seeing a difference in behaviour in the first and second resonant frequency points. That would seem to support Meyl's notion that the observed behaviour and performance of the transmitter/receiver setup is different between the two resonant frequencies...

[level]

excellent work Farmhand, you do really nice work!

sorry to be off topic, but i want to show my recent work on the BiTT...

Bi Toroid Technology: Measuring Input and Smoothed DC Output - YouTube

Hi mr. clean. What I was trying to get across in my previous post is that if you have large current pulses in the kHz range coming off the battery, your actual input power may possibly be a fair bit higher than you might gather by trying to measure the input current from the battery with just your digital multimeter. This is because a typical digital multimeter is not designed to make voltage or current measurements above about 100 Hz or so, depending on the actual meter you have, as we have discussed before. To eliminate this as a possible source of measurement error, if you show the input current waveform right at one of the battery terminals using a scope across a 1 ohm resistor, so the magnitude, shape, and frequency of any input current pulses from the battery can be viewed, it can help clarify this. The DMM you are using to measure the input current from the battery could possibly be off by quite a bit if there are current pulses in the tens or hundreds of kHz frequency range. If the scope shows no such pulses or just very small pulses, and the input current from the battery measured by the scope across the 1 ohm resistor shows close to the DMM measurement, then fine, at least you will have eliminated this as a possibility. As you show your measurements now however, there is no way for viewers of your videos to tell if this is a factor or not.

[mr.clean]

Hi mr. clean. What I was trying to get across in my previous post is that if you have large current pulses in the kHz range coming off the battery, your actual input power may possibly be a fair bit higher than you might gather by trying to measure the input current from the battery with just your digital multimeter. This is because a typical digital multimeter is not designed to make voltage or current measurements above about 100 Hz or so, depending on the actual meter you have, as we have discussed before. To eliminate this as a possible source of measurement error, if you show the input current waveform right at one of the battery terminals using a scope across a 1 ohm resistor, so the magnitude, shape, and frequency of any input current pulses from the battery can be viewed, it can help clarify this. The DMM you are using to measure the input current from the battery could possibly be off by quite a bit if there are current pulses in the tens or hundreds of kHz frequency range. If the scope shows no such pulses or just very small pulses, and the input current from the battery measured by the scope across the 1 ohm resistor shows close to the DMM measurement, then fine, at least you will have elimated this as a possibility. As you show your measurements now however, there is no way for viewers of your videos to tell if this is a factor or not.

sure i can check that, but there are a couple things happening that i didnt mention.
but the only reason i put this last vid up is because "I" was impressed by the above 12 v voltage in the load, so wanted to share because, to "me" was an odd occurrence indeed.

[level]

sure i can check that, but there are a couple things happening that i didnt mention.
but the only reason i put this last vid up is because "I" was impressed by the above 12 v voltage in the load, so wanted to share because, to "me" was an odd occurrence indeed.

Yeah, that driver circuit appears to work well and provide lots of drive to the transformers. Probably a little easier than working with signals of a few volts or in the millivolt range. It's looking good.

[janost]

I shorted the secondary with with a 146v SIDAC.
It worked but I was stupid enough to hold it between my fingers when I did the measurement.

That hurt and there are still burnmarks on my thumb
200v@8mA makes 1.5watts. The thing got really hot.

And at the moment the drawn current went up to 6v@50mA, that is just an input of 0.3watts?

Anyway, at moment I'm thinking of how fast those 200v@8mA can charge a capacitor to 6v?

That might be a way to go.

ps. If anyone thinks of how stupid I would be to hold something with 200VAC between my fingers, I can say that without a ground reference it's was just a slight tickle
I have had friends join hands and lighting a FL-tube with 800v bugg-zappers and not feeling a thing.

[hotrod68r]

you cupid stunt.

[janost]

I'm trying it now on a really tired Li-Po cel with a voltage of 2.63 and it climbs

2.66v now.
Sorry, it has climbed to 2.85v

Yes, it has actually climbed without external power.

This is fun, the battery voltage actually climbs.