Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Tvrepair]

alternator wind generation

Here is some info from the wind generator folks]http://njnoisemaker.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-alternator-works-how-to-make-it.html[/URL]

[Hobby Eon]

hidden message ?

I don't have the links now but may I suggest you watch all of Donald L. Smith videos and read all his publications.The site nuenergy groups @yahoo.com has some of his pdf's.Less than 5 pages back you should find the links to some of Don's videos.

Hm. I found a stunning clip at that link. http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1844077...+Haven+Bay.WMV

(no log in) Watch the last seconds above those objects !

[sinergicus]

In the resonance energy methods booklet Don Smith gave some informations about how to calculate some parameters of the coils...

For example, if 24.7 MHz is the desired frequency output from L-2. One quarter wave length would
be 247 divided by 24.7 which equals 10 feet of wire. The number of turns will be the amplification
factor. The coil may be wound on standard size P.V.C. or purchased from a supplier. The supplier
is normally a ham radio supply source. Once the length is determined and the number of turns
decided, move to the next step. For example, let each turn of L-1 have 24 volts and desired output
of L-2 be 640 volts. Therefore L-2 needs 26.67 turns. It has been determined that the wire length
for one quarter wave length is 10 feet. The number of inches in 10 feet is 120. Using Chart "A"
supplied look for next higher number of turns showing (being between 20 and 30 turns with a 2"
diameter coil). This tells us to use a 2" coil.

Can somebody let me know where is that Chart "A" about Don Smith talks?
I didn,t found it...

Also I have the book recommended by Don, Useful tables and formulas but I didn,t found the chart about Don spoken...

[gyula]

...
Also I have the book recommended by Don, Useful tables and formulas but I didn,t found the chart about Don spoken...

If you have that book, see Figure 5-11 Single layer coil chart, Page 149 (PDF page# 159).

[T-1000]

If you have that book, see Figure 5-11 Single layer coil chart, Page 149 (PDF page# 159).

Just to compare, isn't same information in http://136.159.225.44/AlliedData.pdf scanned pages 30-36?

Also can you link PDF file mentioned?

P.S> @Hobby Eon - someone is making Scifi movie?

[artoj]

Lets give it a simple Radio Ham try

Given variables in metric units

F = 24700000 Hz frequency used
V = 299792458 m/s velocity of light
Vt = 24 volts volts per turn of primary
Vs = 640 volts volts required on secondary
Pd = 0.0508 mtr pipe diameter
Pd2 = 0.0381 mtr pipe diameter
Pi = 3.14159

Wire length required for 1/4 wave resonator

WL4 = ( V / F ) / 4
= 3.03433 mtrs

Turns required to achieve secondary voltage(standard transformer)

Ns = Vs / Vt
= 26.6666 turns

Turns on a pipe diameter of Pd (2 inches)

Nt = WL4 / ( Pd x Pi )
= 19.01297 turns

The diameter of coil to get Ns

Pd2 = ( WL4 / Ns ) / Pi
= 0.0362197 mtrs

The voltage if using Nt on Pd former (2 inch)

Vs2 = Vt x Nt
= 456.3115 Volts

The Wave length (1/4) if Pd former and Ns turns

WL42 = Pd X Pi X Ns
= 5.09356 mtrs

Therefore the frequency becomes

F2 = V / ( WL42 * 4 )
= 14514264.4433 Hz

Then Don must of chose the coil diameter of 0.0381 ( 1 1/2 inches)

Turns on a pipe diameter of Pd2 (1 1/2 inches)

Nt2 = WL4 / ( Pd2 x Pi )
= 25.350638 turns

The voltage if using Nt2 on Pd2 former (1 1/2 inch)

Vs2 = Vt x Nt2
= 608.4153 Volts

I would say Don had a bad typo error and it has never been corrected. Regards Arto

[citfta]

Not quite right.

Hi artoj,

Thanks for posting that exercise of trying to make Don's info work. I want to say first that I have no idea if any of Don's devices worked or not. He may very well have had an intuitive way of building circuits that did what he said they did. However I have watched several of his videos and his explanations do NOT make any sense to me. I am an amateur radio operator and have over 50 years of experience in repairing electronic devices. I don't know if Don just couldn't explain what he was doing or if he was deliberately misleading. All I know for sure is his explanations just don't add up. Let's look at what you have posted about what Don said and I'll explain what I mean.

Don said to take the speed of light and divide by the frequency to get the wavelength. That is correct. Now he said to divide by 1/4 to get a quarter wave length. That is also correct. Then he goes astray. He then says to wrap that length of wire into a coil. As soon as you do that the frequency changes to a lower value because of the inductance and self capacitance of the coil. Hams add small coils to mobile antennas all the time to lower the frequency and that allows them to have a smaller antenna on their vehicle than would otherwise be possible. What I am saying is you no longer have a quarter wave length of wire if you wind it into a coil. And the diameter and length of the coil all play a part in changing the natural frequency of that wire.

Now we add the second coil. The mutual inductance of the two coils now lowers the frequency even more. And to get the turns ratio he wants in order to increase the voltage means the second coil is going to be even farther off in frequency because of the added inductance and capacitance of the extra turns. All this measuring wires to get a certain frequency and then using them to make a transformer just doesn't make any sense when you consider all that is really going on in the circuit.

As you have figured out for this to come even close to working you have to have a large coil of few turns for the primary and a much smaller coil of several turns for the secondary. And both coils are going to require wire shorter than the 1/4 length calculated with the secondary coil being the shortest. You can also lower the inductance and capacitance by spreading the turns of the coil out from each other. This will help to keep the frequency somewhat higher than it will be if you put the turns tightly together. The only real way to get what you want will be to measure the resonate frequency of the combined coils and adjust the lengths accordingly.

I hope this has helped some.

Respectfully, Carroll

[gyula]

Just to compare, isn't same information in http://136.159.225.44/AlliedData.pdf scanned pages 30-36?

Also can you link PDF file mentioned?

P.S> @Hobby Eon - someone is making Scifi movie?

Hi T-1000,

Yes, it is the same chart. Here is a possible link to the 7.94 MB PDF file:
O672224690.pdf (7,94 MB) - uploaded.net Choose the Free download and wait for the 30 second countdown. (when you click on Free download, a new half window also appears to seduce you to pay for a Premium download but just close down (kill) that window.) When the 30 seconds passes, then fill in the appearing characters (a word and numbers) in the captcha window and submit it. Then you can download file O672224690.pdf
I found this file by google search, there may be other places to download it I do not know.

Gyula

[artoj]

Hi Carroll,
Yes you are right, Don mumbles a lot when he starts to talk radio engineering, I agree it is not as simple as just a 1/4 wave length, there are lots of interference from all the components on the board, especially the primary mutual inductance dragging the frequency and the Q down, plus dielectric losses. The transformer turns ratio does not apply to 1/4 wave resonators the Q of the coil and the ratio of square root primary capacitance and the secondary capacitance or the square root of the secondary inductance and the primary inductance help define the magnification. This is why he becomes vague, because he doesn't know, at this point in the text he skips any specific details and starts generalizing making broad claims. I know radio coils can be a very exacting craft, this is what can only be learned through experience, something this forum environment can encourage. The simple equations are there to help clear up some of Dons vagueness, regards Arto

[Utopia Now]

Zilano and Donald L Smith stuf

Hello Guys

Zilano who was active on this forum had wonderful info.

Here is a pdf : "Zilano Diagram & Circuits Don Smith Device" that David Fine put together a while back.

And in this Prezi doc is a lot of text from Zilano also.

Here is one more : Donzelina 2012


Thanks for all your inspiration.
Utopia Now.

[dllabarre]

Hi T-1000,

Yes, it is the same chart. Here is a possible link to the 7.94 MB PDF file:
O672224690.pdf (7,94 MB) - uploaded.net Choose the Free download and wait for the 30 second countdown. (when you click on Free download, a new half window also appears to seduce you to pay for a Premium download but just close down (kill) that window.) When the 30 seconds passes, then fill in the appearing characters (a word and numbers) in the captcha window and submit it. Then you can download file O672224690.pdf
I found this file by google search, there may be other places to download it I do not know.

Gyula

FYI
Whenever you look at electronic books be sure to look at the copyright date and printing date. Newer books and reprints are changed to hide secrets from the people. I try to only look at books copyrighted pre-1950. Pre-1930 is a lot better.
Just my 2 cents.

[sinergicus]

If you have that book, see Figure 5-11 Single layer coil chart, Page 149 (PDF page# 159).

I supose this is that chart



Is not clear for me how to use it
In our situation we have 26.67 turns ...how we know ,using that chart, we need
a 2 inch diameter tube as former for coil ..We need at least 2 variable to be known and draw a line between that 2 point to find the third variable from that chart....

[clarence]

[QUOTE=Utopia Now;234681]Hello Guys

Zilano who was active on this forum had wonderful info.]

Hello Utopia Now,

Clarence,

good work Sir and thanks for this info and your work!!!

mike onward!

[gyula]

Is not clear for me how to use it
In our situation we have 26.67 turns ...how we know ,using that chart, we need
a 2 inch diameter tube as former for coil ..We need at least 2 variable to be known and draw a line between that 2 point to find the third variable from that chart....

Well, Don Smith left us with several foggy things regarding the fine details of his setups and the construction of coil L2 is included in the foggy things. So when he referred to chart A, he may have meant the Single-layer coil chart but forgot to mention a variable he had thought of and this variable would be needed to use the chart. His suggested 2" OD coil diameter may have come from his practical experience.

I think a good empirical method would be to wind some air core coils like he showed in photos or videos with different OD and coil length and use a grid dip meter (an active oscillator with calibrated frequency scale) to probe the coils resonant frequencies and after this you will have an insight what physical coil sizes may have resonance at 24.7MHz or whatever you desired output frequency. Of course when you include such a coil into a circuit and / or attach a load to it too, then this coil will be detuned so corrections in the number of turns or winding pitch may have to be made. The first 'task' is to observe the number of turns and by manipulating the coil OD and the coil length you may reach the desired quarter wave resonant frequency for L2 (where output power becomes maximum?)

Sorry for not able to give more useful advice, members Cifta and Artoj clearly described the difficulties in Don's given example above and I agree with them.

PS a grid dip meter may be obtainable on ebay.

Gyula

[clarence]

DONS BOARD BUILD COIL SET UP-not difficult!

Hello @ ALL,

Clarence here,

awhile back after seeing much to do about dons coil build (though engaged in another of his builds) I decided to see how difficult it would be!

It isn't!

after I looked at past photos of his board build as he showed it and knowing he used a Barker & Williams 3" coil with a 32uH total, and that each coil half had 17 turns, just using my eyeballs I could tell that each coil half would have approx 12 uH value. so I bought a coil and got with it.

I divided the coil into its two half 17 turn segments and set to work with my LCR meter. Lo and behold at first rough measure the top right coil measured around 12.6 uH! then I measured the bot left coil half and it measured about 12.9 uH! So I said to self, self I need to shorten the excess wire length of each coil half leads to a decent length as DON did, and at the same time balance the inductance values of both halves so that they matched, that I did! (I found that the left half coil lead length - at the left end of the coil had to be slightly longer than the two center tap leads and the top end lead. Oh well!. the attached photo shows the wiggly remedy! nothing serious)

I then turned my attention to the inner L1 coil. to make a simple short story short it needed 5.375 turns on a ....2" OD TUBE!!!! the 2" OD tube I used was some clear acrylic tube I had from building other transformers. NOW FOR THE AMAZING PART!!! .......This acrylic tube goes INSIDE - INSIDE - INSIDE the2" ID white PVC pipe everbody is familiar with! and lo and behold the RED multistranded L1 wire turns come out almost level with the OD of the white PVC pipe. Hoorayy!

Now for the rest of this exciting story. BTW the 3" coil is a # 10 awg and the RED stranded L1 wire is # 10 awg. When using DONs given Cap values for the L2 top half coil with its inductance value I Set for it at 12.5 uH the .047 uF sets a resonance value of 207 + KHZ. All of you are familiar with the long RED tails of wire coming out of DONs white PVC pipe ( not by accident and I had already guessed why) and when you make each one of those tails an added length of 3 ' either side of the 5.375 turns length you come out with an inductance value of......2.95 uH. use that with DONs stated .2 uF value and you get.....207 + KHZ!!!!!!

Now just add ZILANOs HVHF flyback driver as your power module and you are in business!!!!!!!!!!!

as always, mike onward!