Method to Dump cap voltage to Battery

[Zooty]

IMO pure mechanical switching is the most efficient way. It requires no additional current (Relays, semiconductors) and according to bedini in his Free energy generation book, there is much more power to be had doing it like this. It may introduce slight drag and i mean slight but we all know the bedini wheel draws less at slower rpm's so really its not a problem as long as you can hit the sweet spot. He also uses this commutator style mechanical switching in one of his ssg's in the "Energy from the vacuum" series videos to dump the caps to the charge batt. If he recommends it, maybe we should be trying to do it like this. Far less to go wrong. I for one will be going down this road just to see what the results are. Bedini has also stated a few times that Radiant energy and semiconductors dont really mix well and the only reason a tranny is ok in the ssg circuit is because it does not actually pass the radiant spike through it. Rick Frederick also does this with his self runner setup. I have tried a relay and the results can be a bit deceiving due to the secondary spike coming off the relay coil itself. My meters went berserk until it put a diode on it feeding another cap. Just my 2 cents

[Inquorate]

Cap dumping on ground leg.

YouTube - recovering a battery that has been abused and won't hold charge

[minoly]

@ nvisser,
we've been using this w/ Rick's 3 pole monopole kit, it's doing exactly what you say. much simpler than 555 + h11d1, do you know of any disadvantages to this w/ regard to the "radiant"?
I hope you don't mind, I gave this thread a plug over at the monopole 2 group to try and get an answer as well. looks like we'll just have to do the runs and compare...

[nvisser]

Update

I found that if your radiant or generator source is to strong the cap charge up to fast and the SCR does not switch off.
I also moved the SCR to the negative leg like you know who.
It works better to switch at a voltage above 48V . It ensures the scr switches off after every pulse.
Instead of a zener I use a Transient Voltage Suppression Diode
Axial Leaded – 1500W > 1.5KE series
Or a neon like in the aerial battery chargers.
The tvs diodes switch according to the datasheet in 1pico second. The scr is not so fast and I think switch in a few micro seconds.
Here is the new diagram.

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

I found that if your radiant or generator source is to strong the cap charge up to fast and the SCR does not switch off.
I also moved the SCR to the negative leg like you know who.
It works better to switch at a voltage above 48V . It ensures the scr switches off after every pulse.
Instead of a zener I use a Transient Voltage Suppression Diode
Axial Leaded – 1500W > 1.5KE series
Or a neon like in the aerial battery chargers.
The tvs diodes switch according to the datasheet in 1pico second. The scr is not so fast and I think switch in a few micro seconds.
Here is the new diagram.

Nice Job Vissie! Been missing you on Skype, but I have been extremely busy of late you know.

Great work!

Jeff

[Bhargav]

voltage question

visse,
Sorry to dig up this old thread .... This seems to be the most easiest cap dump circuit avaialble Well i got scr as specified in your last update but for the diode i could get 1.5ke100 instead of 51 or 71 .
This pushes the switching voltage to 100 v.
Now my question is :
As you wrote the circuit works well above 48V , does it mean the battery voltage has to be above 48 V or simply that the cap needs to get over 48V to dump the charge into a 12v battery ...
Iam still new to bedini circuits , so pardon me if it all seems silly ...

Regards,
Bhargav

[nvisser]

Hi Bhargav
I again picked up problems with this circuit yesterday. The moment you got a radiant source that is to strong the scr will not switch off no matter how high voltage zener you use.
I am now trying with darlinton transistors to see if I can get more reliable and constant results.
100V dumping could maybe a bit high and dangerous as a spark in the battery could be fatal. Specially if you use a high value capacitor and dump a lot a energy every time.
As soon as I got a better working model I will post it

[boguslaw]

I'm interested how much voltage need to be in cap before dump to battery. I would use it for 12V battery.Any experience ?
Did you thought about just using 1.5KE ALONE ? For example 1.5KE24CA ?

[Farmhand]

I again picked up problems with this circuit yesterday. The moment you got a radiant source that is to strong the scr will not switch off no matter how high voltage zener you use.

I noticed that as well a while ago and was very frustrated by it, however when I got my scope I noticed that the circuit was actually pulsing ( I needed to turn vertical and horazontal gain way up to see it ) It was pulsing at the same frequency as the SSG, every time the SSG delivered a pulse to the cap pulser it dumped. And so the voltage of the caps was only a couple of volts above the battery, not what I wanted it to be. I could not resolve the problem. I was using bifiler SSG though.

With my very small three coiler it showed a nice staircase waveform. Thats what I wanted with my bigger SSG but couldn't get it because of what you said earlier.

I hope you can come up with something, it is a very simple pulsing circuit that would be very usefull if we can get it to work the way we want.

I like to dump 1000 uf at about 20 volts or so if I can.

Cheers, good luck.

Another thing I noticed was that when using a zener on its own without another regular diode in series with the gate, is that the battery can backfill the cap through the SCR, if the cap is big enough it could damsge the scr maybe ? not sure even if it was my mix up, but i think it did happen to me.

[citfta]

Suggestion

Hi guys, I have a suggestion for you. If your SCR keeps triggering on the pulses from the SSG try putting a smaller value cap in parallel with the cap you are charging. I know this doesn't sound like it would help but a large value cap like you are charging has a high impedence to quick pulses and is not catching them. A smaller cap like a .1 or .01 mf cap will have a low impedence to quick short pulses. All power supplies have both small and large value caps in them to keep the power clean for this same reason. I don't have a SCR to try this with or I would try it before posting. As the small cap gets charged it will charge the large cap between pulses. Please post your results if you try this. As soon as I can get some SCR's I want to try the pulser circuit with a solar panel like I think it was Farmhand was doing. If we can get solar panels to charge even in moonlight that changes the economics of going solar a lot. Thanks for all the great ideas. Hope to see most of you at the conference.

Carroll

[nvisser]

Carrol. I will try that
What i found is that a scr cannot handle much. It is ok to dump caps up to about 10uF with high voltage, but when going to high value caps like 10 000uf the scr goes short with the first pulse. Than we have to start using transistors.
What I am trying to achieve here is to automatic dump high energy at a specific voltage determined by the zener value, without using a timer chip.
The problem is not the scr triggering with the sg pulses. The problem comes in when the scr does not switch off. It will only switch off when the voltage on the cap side becomes about equal with the battery voltage, but if the cap fills up to fast with strong radiant pulses this does not happens.
It looks like I will have to use an opto .

[Farmhand]

Well this looks ok I got a scope shot of my bike wheel with cap pulser making a nice staircase ramp. Yahoo

Couple of pics attatched the scope is set to ATT 1/10 and the battery voltage is only 6.7 v. Also a pic of the pulser it's a roughie.

Cheers

I think the pulser has a 12 volt zener and other diodes. So should be about 20v or so. The scope isn't zero'd on 0v either.

[Farmhand]

Ok so the small cap in paralell does sound like it will work I will try that. I have three 470 uf 400 volt electrolytic caps and the only things I did different was to put the SCR on the positive line and have a couple of other diodes in series with the zener on the gate. I did notice that I can't get the wheel to one pulse per pass since adding the 1n4148 last night. maybe that is a factor as well. I'm not sure what voltage you guys want to dump at and that or if this will keep working for me. These things seem to come and go for me.

I just had a full moon last couple of days and couldn't even get 1 volt on the panels. So thats not gonna work unless maybe you live in a well lit area. There are no lights here.

Cheers

I try to put three of something in everything. Ahla Nicola.

[nvisser]

The way I understand it, if you want to charge from moonlight you need enough panels to get at least 0.7V to switch a transistor.
Then you use the solid state circuit in this bedini patent
11592633 - Google Patent Search
Read point 0009 in the patent.

[EgmQC]

Hi Bhargav
I again picked up problems with this circuit yesterday. The moment you got a radiant source that is to strong the scr will not switch off no matter how high voltage zener you use.
I am now trying with darlinton transistors to see if I can get more reliable and constant results.
100V dumping could maybe a bit high and dangerous as a spark in the battery could be fatal. Specially if you use a high value capacitor and dump a lot a energy every time.
As soon as I got a better working model I will post it

A SCR stay open until the voltage at the gate go to 0v and below, if you place a 100k+ resistor between the gate and the ground that will switch off the scr when the zener/Neon close.

Best regards,
EgmQC