Method to Dump cap voltage to Battery

[nvisser]

@Nvisser,

Ill post to you a simple solution with a mosfet, its what ive used with my ssg cap pulser. Ill not be here before late tonight but as soon as i get some time tonight or tomorow ill post a schematic.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

Hi EgmQC
What I am trying to achieve is to do the dumping without a timer and to dump at a certain voltage determined by a zener.
We got brilliant circuits by Tom Bearden and John Bedini to do just that with timers and there is good mosfets circuits on this forum to effectively do it with mosfets driven by mosfet drivers to get that fast rise time that is needed for cap dumping into the battery.
Don't get me wrong. I still appreciate your input and interest on this thread.

[nvisser]

Hehe that would have been a wild ride for the battery while it lasted. I'm confused by the method you use to swap from series to parallel, i'll try to understand it.

Looking at the circuit you will see that the the high incoming voltage will charge the caps in series through the series diodes.
The moment you close the switch to the battery the caps dicharge through the other diodes taking the shortest path, putting all the caps in parallel.
Putting out a quarter of the voltage but 4 times the current.

[EgmQC]

Hi EgmQC
What I am trying to achieve is to do the dumping without a timer and to dump at a certain voltage determined by a zener.
We got brilliant circuits by Tom Bearden and John Bedini to do just that with timers and there is good mosfets circuits on this forum to effectively do it with mosfets driven by mosfet drivers to get that fast rise time that is needed for cap dumping into the battery.
Don't get me wrong. I still appreciate your input and interest on this thread.

I told you that you can change the timing side for whatever you want, use a voltage divider and a zener , when the voltage reach the voltage required it trigger the opto and the mosfet fire or use a MCU like a little pic16F/Pic18F to read the voltage , but since the voltage will be higher than VCC you will need a voltage divider on the sense pin , its another simple solution , feed the pic with the same capacitor that you charge since it doesn't dump to 0v but at the level of the battery, the reference for the PIC with a 7805 will not change, after that you just need to trigger the opto, any PIC can output about 50mA per pin for a max of 300mA total so enough for the opto.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[Farmhand]

Looking at the circuit you will see that the the high incoming voltage will charge the caps in series through the series diodes.
The moment you close the switch to the battery the caps dicharge through the other diodes taking the shortest path, putting all the caps in parallel.
Putting out a quarter of the voltage but 4 times the current.

Oh yes I see, thats brilliant. So simple I didn't see it.

Thanks.

[nvisser]

I told you that you can change the timing side for whatever you want, use a voltage divider and a zener , when the voltage reach the voltage required it trigger the opto and the mosfet fire
Best Regards,
EgmQC

That is exactly what I am trying to do here. Only problem is it does not work so easy.
Could you post a voltage divider , zener , opto diagram that works and maybe a small video showing the discharge pulses?

[EgmQC]

That is exactly what I am trying to do here. Only problem is it does not work so easy.
Could you post a voltage divider , zener , opto diagram that works and maybe a small video showing the discharge pulses?

I dont see the need for a thing simple as that but anyway here we go , first you can use any zener diode under the voltage of the source , the reason for that is that enable you to modify the trigger voltage without using a different zener diode , the voltage divider will set the trigger voltage.In the 2 screenshot i show the simulation , i moved the cap and the battery to be able to run it in simulation, you can do the exact same simple simulation in any software. I had to do that because i cant simulate a recharge in a battery so with a empty capacitor as the charging battery it was easier to show. I moved a potentiometer to 0 at first to simulate that the capacitor is under the needed voltage and in the second screenshot i moved it to 8.4v (about the zener breakdown, the potentiometer move in step) and the zener fired the optocoupler who triggered the mosfet and charged the cap to 12v(battery voltage).

Sim1 : When voltage at the zener is under the breakdown.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/359...ltagereach.jpg

Sim2 : When voltage is over the breakdown
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8...ltagereach.jpg

The only thing you have to set is the potentiometer output voltage you want in correlation with the charging caps, ex: if you use a 6v zener and you want the cap discharge at 12v , you set the potentiometer at about 50% (52% will be better since there always a % of error in all component), want it to fire at 24v, set it at 25%~. I still think it will be easier/efficient with a PIC but if you want it totaly analog its a simple way to do it without wasting power with a transistor discharge.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[EgmQC]

Dont forget that you dont have to move the potentiometer like i do in the simulation, i just needed to do that to simulate a augmentation in voltage in the battery(who will be the cap in the real life).

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[nvisser]

If it is so simple why don't you stop simulating and show me the real thing working.

[EgmQC]

If it is so simple why don't you stop simulating and show me the real thing working.

Take your pills , i posted here to help you if you forgot ,i didnt have to do that but i took the time.Ill not do that anymore lolll , i was expecting at least a barely minimum of electronic knowledge its why i was a bit upset at posting a simple potentiometer and a little zener to make a trigger for the opto, this thing is so simple.

Ill not waste my time anymore.

[nvisser]

You were expecting at least a barely minimum of electronic knowledge? Is that why you think a scr switch off when you remove the gate voltage.
Don't run away now. That is a small circuit to built. Show me you can make it work like that. Do you really think a have not tried it many times before. The cap charges up and when it reach the zener voltage it does trigger and discharge but than it gets stuck there. I am talking about a 8 filar coil radiant input here. Not a small SSG.
If you can do that for me and show me how than this thread has served it's purpose.
And don't tell me stories about simple electronics and taking my pills. Built the circuit and show me it works so that I could see what I do wrong.

[EgmQC]

You were expecting at least a barely minimum of electronic knowledge? Is that why you think a scr switch off when you remove the gate voltage.
Don't run away now. That is a small circuit to built. Show me you can make it work like that. Do you really think a have not tried it many times before. The cap charges up and when it reach the zener voltage it does trigger and discharge but than it gets stuck there. I am talking about a 8 filar coil radiant input here. Not a small SSG.
If you can do that for me and show me how than this thread has served it's purpose.
And don't tell me stories about simple electronics and taking my pills. Built the circuit and show me it works so that I could see what I do wrong.

Ill order some zener tonight and will show you but don't take me wrong , i don't do that to help you now at all , just to show that you waste people time by not understanding basic electronic. You are right , i was wrong with the SCR , i barely worked with that component but i was not afraid of saying that i was wrong and i was happy to come back with something that you can work with , and the funny thing , for a end result that now i need to build the circuit LOLL ironic no ? anyway , ill show you this week the moment i receive my zener.

Best Regards,
EgmQC

[Farmhand]

nvisser,
i'm very interested in your 8 filer setup do you have any photo's of it in an old thread or something, or could you give me a brief description of the setup, like wire size, transistors? It's a bifiler with slave's i assume. Is it the simple Bedini SS or the one from FEG book ? Do you use a custom PCB ?

Hmmm I think i will make a thread about making circuit boards if there isn't one already.

I know you must be very busy so I just thought i would ask incase your setup was in a thread somewhere, I can search but some threads are huge and I get distracted easily.

I need to get some more large 400 v caps so I can try these cap dump circuits, i've run out there all busy, I think i have everything else I need though.

Thanks

[citfta]

Making pc boards

Hi Farmhand, I just did a search of the forum and did not find any threads about making PC boards. So if you want to start a thread for that it would be great. I just made a small but slightly complicated one so I would be interested to see if anyone has a better way.

Hmmm I think i will make a thread about making circuit boards if there isn't one already.

Thanks, Carroll

[nvisser]

nvisser,
i'm very interested in your 8 filer setup do you have any photo's of it in an old thread or something, or could you give me a brief description of the setup, like wire size, transistors? It's a bifiler with slave's i assume. Is it the simple Bedini SS or the one from FEG book ? Do you use a custom PCB ?

Hmmm I think i will make a thread about making circuit boards if there isn't one already.

I know you must be very busy so I just thought i would ask incase your setup was in a thread somewhere, I can search but some threads are huge and I get distracted easily.

I need to get some more large 400 v caps so I can try these cap dump circuits, i've run out there all busy, I think i have everything else I need though.

Thanks

That Bedini patent 11592633 will give you an idea of the 8 filar solid state SSG or boost converter.
I used 24# wire , 9 of them tied 40M away to atree. Then you wind them together with a battery drill and then wind them onto the bobbin. Here is also the diagram I used to wind coils.
The trigger side that normally goes to ground goes to positive in the solid state version. That is why it will start to charge with a 0.7V input.
Go here for the coil winding diagram. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ayer-coil.html
I will also try and post a diagram from the Panacea site.
See http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...witch-133.html post 2647, 2661 and 2663.
YouTube - Simplified radiant ser par charger.avi

[Farmhand]

Thats ok I see, thats plenty for me to look at for now thank you very much.

I'll edit this post with a link later (if it lets me edit) to a 2 minute video i'm uploading now, it shows a clear spike at the cap discharge on the scope, I added an inductor to the circuit. I don't really know what to make of it, if it is significant or not.
Maybe you could give me your thoughts ? I imagine with a more powerful higher frequency source like yours these spike's with the capacitive discharge would be much bigger and more benificial.

Cheers

Link = YouTube - Solar with inductor 1_2.wmv