The German 1966 Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor finally explained

[Duncan]

Hi Bi-stander the input and output measurement remained a problem for Art all the way through his series – (this video is but one of the first of a series most of which you'll find on his web site (shown on the video itself)

one of his problems is the bemf which is it transpires a complex and heterodyne waveform.

Still he does revert to foot /lbs and lifts weights to prove the point which one would think is pretty irrefutable. He does that here

https://youtu.be/S7jsk-zRZBw

He also invites technical institutions to test his equipment. Art and his group later convert the action to rotary – IMHO a very determined man, happy to start with very basic first principles and demonstrate each and every step of the way to serious OU . He manages at the end to make the machine 'static'

As UFO points out without a doubt over unity and using the same effect (neutralization) all be it in a different way. I can agree all the way with UFO he also knows without doubt magnetic OU has been achieved many times and his interest is piqued by the work of this particular individuals approach (Friedrich Luling) I feel a little ashamed to clutter his subject however neutralization is common and needs to be well understood.

I point out Bi-stander once you have the ability to effectively 'turn off' a magnet for little or no energy expenditure (and to move that magnet to advantage is a hell of a bonus) your at base one – Free energy generation.

Its been done of course - many times, but those basics stand in every case.

Some called it 'gating' or 'null point' , Bloch wall , neutralization – whatever, one way or another the magnetic effect is turned off for a split second and the external conditions altered.

Its fascinating to see how various 'artists ' have approached the problem over the years from Robert Adams to Howard Johnson to Art Porter and of course the Friedrich Luling device UFO is sharing and enjoying with us here.

I guess the only thing to watch for Bi-stander is just how that rapid turn off/turn on is achieved you can take it for granted if the magnets are doing 60 or 70% of the work Its OU. To convince an absolute sceptic whose approach is – its impossible anyway – In any shape manner or form is a different matter. -

[bistander]

Hello Duncan,

Thanks for your reply. I don't want to argue those points with you or Ufo. Precise mechanical power (as output of the device) is accurately measured using a torque sensor and tachometer. For accurate input power measurement, just use a high quality Lithium battery as the only source for the experiment. The input power is the recharge energy times battery efficiency over time, for any waveform caused under load of the device.

One needs to have an accurate model and characterization of the Lithium battery and operate in its linear state of charge region. This isn't too complicated. It's available from the battery manufacturer and verifiable, before and after you test the device.

This method comes to my mind because I have years of experience using dynamometers and batteries and related equipment in serious industry and academic labs as well as my own shop. There are numerous other approaches to quantify electric and mechanical power and energy.

Regards,
bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

Interesting contraption in that video. But why, when they can't figure out how to measure input power, do they assume it is over unity?

Hello Bistander,

I guess because they are utilizing like a 50% from magnet Free Repulsion side work on the linear actuator...But they could have also use a Stainless Steel calibrated spring to do that job...only and main exception is that at certain point of the stroke, it induces a current within the same circuit of solenoid coil...so the signals get mixed up, and can not define which one is which...could diodes solve this issue?

I can think a of methods fairly easy and accurate to do it and think you probably can also. Do they purposely seek out four dumb guys to ask so they can claim difficulty with a simple electrical measurement?

Don't be that rude with this guy...he is just trying to share his work...lol

Their method for output power is a bit cumbersome but doable. Using a generator with known efficiency would be easier and enable them to loop it, if it was O.U.
Regards,
bi

I honestly do not think that the power production is that much as to run a generator to close the loop...see the amount of batteries under the cart?

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello to all,

IMHO, the Neutralization shown on this Gap Power video demonstration is only a "one way" magnetic force (Repulsion) or Half way from what Lüling Motor is based upon...

And the difference is galore when both Forces are at play...or in a 100% Neutralization.

It has infinite possibilities...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Hello Bistander,

I guess because they are utilizing like a 50% from magnet Free Repulsion side work on the linear actuator...But they could have also use a Stainless Steel calibrated spring to do that job...only and main exception is that at certain point of the stroke, it induces a current within the same circuit of solenoid coil...so the signals get mixed up, and can not define which one is which...could diodes solve this issue?

I don't think diodes will separate the current contributions physically. It could be modeled and done mathematically.
Anytime a coil current is interrupted, a freewheeling diode makes sense, IMO.

Don't be that rude with this guy...he is just trying to share his work...lol

No offense intended.

I honestly do not think that the power production is that much as to run a generator to close the loop...see the amount of batteries under the cart?

I noticed that. Gotta be a ton of them.

Regards, and respectfully,
bi

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Duncan]

Perhaps Not UFO please to consider this slight variation -- however first, I'll just kind'a have to have a stand off here with by-stander. -excuse pun My battery practical experience ,particularly lead acid shows things in a different light , even if your a total none believer your forced to accept Bedini's energiser ' (for instance) is charging in a very different way. As for Art Porter although I have had little communication with the man he has never been insulting to me or friends and family.
The particular clip I showed was made many years ago by Art andi I intended to show a method of neutralization (nothing else) The man,and his 'Dumb' friends continued with these experiments and progressions for many years culminating in a powerful 'static generator'

http://gap-power.com/GAP-POWER-MP4/Update 2021_August/magnetic Shift C.mp4

I don't think its what friedrich Luling did , there is a possibillity your looking a bit askance at it too UFO -- lets bounce this ball a little bit. - 'opposing magnetic asymetrical forces seemingly chaotic'.

first regarding battery charging by impulse and having established its a asymmetrical complex waveform that is being dealt with (which conventional equipment usually can't see) It is mathematically the content under an infinitesimal (time) impulse of infinite magnitude (volts) – It short Bi stander to try and convert this to the transverse wave world is quite simply crass stupidity the effects however can be experimented with.
The area under the impulse would normally be directly proportional to energy consumption – It isn't and alas the effects doesn't apply to lithium batteries with anything like the same effect . It becomes pretty obvious why JB used Iron based welding rods to accomplish that fast transition. (magnetic pulse) whichever way its done in this motor or any other OU motor the rapidity of that transition is uber important.
Going right back the the Head of the IEE, Robert Adams and his work as pointed out in his Nexus article
The electromechanical response of the core material was extremely important . 'pure Iron' the man said ' and the same applies here' Robert at the time suggested the cores of ex telephone relays as they had to have very fast switching times. Again the same applies here – why ? Its very basic I'm afraid and comes down to some thing called the B/H curve.
Simplified and explained here

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws...ysteresis.html

However I suggest Mr Luling had no need of this addition, you'll see hard and soft ferromagnetic material . The area under the curves you see are directly proportional to the energy required to neutralize (or in the case of the B/H curve reverse) the magnetic effect .
There used to be books and tables relating these relative permeability, denoted by the symbol μ r
(ergo relative to free space and so a ratio)
I would also like to touch on and amplify what UFO tells us of fixed and 'set' magnets. – Imagine if you would the repulse side of the motor UFO has drawn for us .. picture yourself holding one of those magnets over the other on a string – pendulum (if you like) .
Can it stay still ? No it must move . Can it stay on a periphery ? No it must move . Have I then just asked you to visualise that bug bear of all time 'perpetual motion' ? Actually yes however in practice and mathematically you will never find the centre of the circle nor will Pi ever end.
What you might witness for possibly years is mathematically called 'Chaos' however eventually the action will stop - It is in effect a practical demonstration of why pi is an irregular number. The end of the dimention our usual mathematics and electrical instruments work in.
Chaos is quite frankly a bloody nightmare to try and engineer mathematically however it cant be denied that it is a force (and potentially perpetual free energy.)
I would now like to draw attention to the other side of the balance – that is what that rotor is , It may as well be a see-saw – magnets in repulsion on one side, exactly the same magnets in attraction on the other – of course in a instant in time as UFO has captured in his picture
If you think they would cancel out each other, which makes logical sense of standard teaching you would be very wrong here then are the four identical magnets shown a different way
http://youtu.be/W5q47JJJAww



you can't help but notice the imbalance I would hope – It is not what the science books teach. I'm going to amplify a case for you UFO not to insult but simply to put an alternative based on the 'work of various others' There is then another magnetic 'natural' neutralization possibility . Re-call the imaginary example ? Gravity and one magnet suspended over the other , The Chaotic action that would ensue? Now re-draw this picture of yours in you mind please UFO

UFOs motor.jpg


However this time put all magnets in opposition. The action of the magnets on the left will be of course Chaotic (although you can't see it) The action of the magnets on the right will again be Chaotic although again you cant see it – The action of the pendulum I suggested UFO is but a slow and ponderous indication of Chaos. The internal action of two magnets in close proximity is extremely fast , In this case four identical magnets in opposition on a common axis produce a net force of --- ZERO at that instant in time. (Neutralization or null) if you wish. Matching the magnets machining balance and perfect spacing obviously not an easy task but I suggest it has been done. The chaotic effect on one side perfectly balencing the effect on the other at this instant in time.
The almost impossible mathematical enigma of dealing with insane chaos has be made child's play (relativity) by the careful and extremely skilled engineering of a 'watch maker' and I assume Friedrich Luling
Here is a working example high in the Alps powering a retreat , recorded by the local TV station. You will see the powerful magnetic OU machine come into shot at the 5 min mark

http://youtu.be/T90czH5YkrQ

UFO you may ( or may not) ponder for a while if the machine your investigating ran in the null opposition as shown – there are experiments and mathematics behind the theory , here are two pdfs for your consideration the links I won't leave up to long as there could be copyright issues.

http://chilp.it/5737569

http://chilp.it/84dbe4d

I think you'll find on page 25/43 of that first PDF the suggested first experiment which is pretty much as you draw above - with the change I consider

What I posit here then UFO is the pneumatics in your machine are substituting the attraction 'Magnet' cycle (put into position by momentum in Hatems machine.) The null is there as described by Luling which produce a powerful repulsion force (in the dirction of travel) as soon as the Null is passed - The attraction cycle adds force (again in the direction of travel) and is timed to pull the rotor over the null point .
right or wrong worthy of your consideration I hope UFO - Kind regards Duncan

Just a PS in case you try this principle UFO I did build it and thinking I was being clever and economical I opted to use a DC model aeroplane motor with its associated speed controller.

The effect was unpleasant and not what I expected . The faster those wheels spin the more the Load (as far as there is anything you might call load) is relieved from the main drive .

Remember series DC motors and what happens when the run without a load ? They go faster and faster and quickly self destruct --- in my case very quickly all to bloody quickly , DC motors react in this way (all of them) I ended up being machine gunned by my own magnets. You is warned
Here is example of this set up trying to function with a DC drive at least the guy has a speed button or whatever -
http://youtu.be/x_CFLL68aZQ
not good here it hunting the answer ? Squirrel cage motor and speed controller

[bistander]

Duncan,

The four dumb guys to which I referred were the "experts" that he said were brought in who could not figure out the input power or energy. I never imagined that you would take offense. I apologize.

It appears that you feel the lead acid battery is an integral part of his over unity device and object to my replacing it with a Lithium battery. I was unaware such an objection would be raised. I recommended Lithium battery as they are much more efficient and predictable than lead-acid. I hate working with lead-acid batteries. Something as simple as state of charge is a real mess to accurately use with lead-acid.

Regards,
bi

[Duncan]

humble apologies bi -- I would not want to see Art upset -- delighted to have that cleared up bi I couldn't believe you were taking the piss out of a fellow researcher with that level of research and investment-

and yes there is a very different response using lead acid batteries so .... on with batteries you ask about - It is still there to a certain extent in zinc carbon batteries. view it as a network if you like. consider a radio transmitter broadcasting via an antenna the transmitter isn't directly tuned to the antenna rather the uplink -- (perhaps a coax cable) . It has in turn a natural impedance (usually 75 or 50 ohm ) so given a piece of coax -- where do you measure that ?

The answer is the cable offers that impedance at a certain frequency -- you feed the cable at circa that frequency It will react a'la ohms law and suck up everything you can send it'
get to the other end of the cable however and the same thing applies -- transfer power to the antenna and out into the wide world -- If that match isn't there all that energy is reflected back and as you might imagine the waveform is messy and it transmits and spews out everywhere -- The effect used to be called spurious emissions . good luck trying to measure them directly btw.

The workings of present day radio and by extension electricity are based on the sine wave (circle if you like) The transfer is assumed to be at the speed of light. Its what the equipment we use sees and we are familiar and trained to work with.

Alas there is another dimension it was exploited by N.T years ago along with many others. Tesla didn't (for instance) tune to the sine wave and transverse electricity but rather the impulse – square- and so the longitudinal wave.

Its a very different beast and works very differently. Its in a different dimension quite how you visualise that is kinda up to you , once the speed of light is exceeded various researchers have pictured events in their own way.

For instance JB has used that pulse every which way and the phasing and arrangement ia very different depending what the man intended – here for instance is the motor that simply ran for years and years under Johns bench - and as far as I know is running still .

Screenshot 09-10-2021 15.05.50.png


Its design then is fundamentally different from a similar machine made to – charge or recondition batteries. - for instance

What that reflected wave consists of becomes very important. Radio uses a transverse electromagnetic wave – It isn't hard to understand the miss match Its done pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1eE13UXAKs&t=8s

so you take electric power (the power you are familiar with) transfer it to an antenna – Its converted as if by magic to the electromagnetic wave and propagates at 186 000 miles /sec ish.

Tesla however didn't use 'radio' he used wireless . He didn't use the electromagnetic wave at all , he favoured the electrostatic wave, or rather impulse.

It reacts very differently and propagates at 291,000 miles /sec . Because there exists a very different suppressed and forgotten wave system it stands to reason there is a very different electrical system which generated it. Its surrounding us it can be utilized.

Odd as it may sound to you impulse charging a lead acid battery has little to do with volts and amps get it right and the material on the plates 'transmutes'

Here then lies a problem – every man and his dog wants that converted one way or another to the transverse wave dimension – I have no idea how that can be done but folks who think it doesn't happen are miles off target.

I dare say you have watched this before bi stander – It really is a line drawn in the sand , Chris didn't survive long after this and EPD had a sudden change of life style – Its explained far better by them than I can do

https://youtu.be/r7oAlvaC8ls

– These systems are not just chalk and cheese , They are chalk cheese and a different dimension - The guys of this era understood and were taught everything e'lectric , we are not! take my word for it an EE engineer is taught resonance in a very different way to a Radio Tech , a computer tech and baud rates taught differently again . -- It is not by accident
Hope that makes a little sense Bi
kindest regards Duncan

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Duncan,

I appreciate all your input about my project!!
That picture that you have shown from me, and I am reproducing here...shows the magnetic forces involved with the Arrows...One Attract and one Repulse on the whole setup.
However, if we try to understand the mathematics behind this, talking about Momentary Vectors of Force, that take place exactly at Bisectors Alignment at 180º (like shown on image)
We must separate the Two Main Parts interacting here...Stator and Rotor.

HEbStE.jpg

Now, let's call the Rotor Vectors as RRV (Rotor Repulsion Vector) and RAV (Rotor Attraction Vector)

Then on Stator Vectors SRV (Stator Repulsion Vector) and SAV (Stator Attraction Vector)

So we display them exactly as shown on image with the direction shown...:

SRV< RRV>-----------+-------------RAV> SAV<

Now, the way I see this, we must separate both parts as Groups, Rotor Vectors and Stator Vectors:

Then We have:

(RRV> + RAV>) - (SRV< + SAV<)

And so, since they are all four identical magnets, same embodiment, same grade, they should imply identical forces...However, since in reality is never so identical, and I remember in the Mad Max Thread, how He explained We must find the most identical magnets by using the force experiment with a Weight Scale...Point is, magnets are never of same exact force...
But as it is utilized in Math...let's "assume" that they are ALL IDENTICAL in Force, to be able to reach our equation.

Then We will have:

(RRV> + RAV>) - (SRV< + SAV<) = 0

And so, in all my experiments, I verified this "perfect zero" never takes place in reality...reason why, I designed one of my sets (Attraction) to be able to adjust it, by screwing in or out the air gap...and yes, there is a point where you feel almost no force...at all...but a very slight "bump" when rotating in slow movements.

But "the Light" , the Magic, comes at higher rotation...then is where you feel "no force opposing or trying to stick at all"!!
And so, even adjusting to have a sticky point (Predominant Attraction) at rotating speed, Rotor passes without any effort.

There are also the "Angular Momentum of Vector Forces"...but I really do not want to complicate this post...point is, it shows the neutralization at both directions of rotation, CW and CCW.

The real amazing thing takes place whenever I "Unbalance" just one of the Forces involved, even by 3 or 4 millimeters!!...like I chose Attraction, by spreading the Attract Air Gap...then the "Unleashed Repulsion Force is HUGE...and it also could be measured...and depending of Bisector alignment, at timing of Unbalancing, the Repulsion Force will push Rotor in the supposed sense of rotation.

And so, honestly, I do not see how both interactions at Repulsion will do also a Neutralization...However, I know this case I am explaining and using, should not be the only existing one...

Also, because of the Sake of Simplicity, I am really refusing to involve any electromagnets with batteries, or any other input in my setup as of now...I plan to build a heavier motor, with a Timing "Firing" Order in all Modules, with bigger Magnets and in a Metal setup, not plexiglass.

Due to the very short Angles of Magnetic Interactions that I have seen so far...I am sure I can incorporate Six or even Eight Magnets per Module...

I am presently working on a Mechanical-Magnetic only setup...no air involved...No external Energy supply at all....with balanced weights plus Counterweights...so let's see how it works out...



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Duncan]

absolutely UFO – and I fully understand your wish to vindicate the work of one researcher (I do it myself) you might well be right in the way you view his machine running, I simply point out that a possible alternative approach is there in the wings, If its ever required . I'm certainly not trying to miss-direct just point out similar work in and about the system you investigate. I'm sure you'll continue to a success its in your nature with similar projects.

Seems to me there are many ways to skin a cat and in the mean time you have certainly caught my interest with this project

kindest regards Duncan

[Duncan]

I hope this helps your considerations UFO This is part of the vector forces about the rotors in attraction and opposition as attached to the description of this particular french patent - the 'hacked' translation from French is me I'm ashamed to say
Hatem patent 1.png
In case of slippage, this configuration will tend to accelerate the phenomenon if they are all of the same orientation, a blue magnet will look for any red magnet.

Hatem patent 2.png
If the magnets are alternate they remain in attraction but the alternation creates a kind of natural notching, which limits the slippage the central blue magnet on the right is attracted by the red magnet on the left, but not only if there is slipping the red magnet will retain the blue, but the magnets with the same orientation will, by repelling each other, also participate in maintaining the blue magnet on the right in its window

This info originally lifted from the description of French patent - FR2907278
described in some detail here

http://www.rexresearch.com/hatem/hatem.htm

This is another system that went the way of the many others I'm sure your aware UFO . however I hope there's some snippets of information here that can assist in the similar machine you are working on.
along with the three or four examples already shown - Hatem ,Fabrice,George Mitchel of this magnetic machine running to advantage here is another, with a couple of video clips - The clips were originally posted on youtube by 'mindfreer' who's contact detail you have. they were taken down very fast and the man sent to youtube prison with his channel shut down. --- not before I copied them however

vimeo.com/39036901

http://vimeo.com/38852490



so I guess UFO some pretty pertanaint questions are answered regarding the machine you wish to replicate . A/ can magnets in the same axis work to energy advantage -- seemingly yes.
B/ Can magnetic neutraization be used to energy advantage seemingly yes do the powers that be allow such things ? I don't think I need to amplify that aspect to you UFO - kindest regards Duncan

[Duncan]

UFO have come across another video I saved regarding magnets on the same rotor and axis -- It shows % energy advantage . I have put three of them together on *****ute where they won't get knocked down. strikes me that if your doing something thats supposed to be impossible every little bit of information can prove valuable
https://www.*****ute.com/video/qGqE92fIYBWR/

I hope this little snippet helps - kind regards Duncan seems our site wont publish b-i-t-c-h as part of b-i-t-c-h-u-t-e how prudish lol sorry you'll have to put it in yourself one wonders what happens if I write for instance 'my dog is a *****' b-i-t-c-h --I have to wonder about the American abuse of english or pehaps just a perversion of this forum ? answers on a postcard Kindest - Duncan
PS -- dog is the Male of the animal -- ***** the female -- seems not in Americanize abuse of the english language ? enlighten me - pls do

[Ufopolitics]

You are right, can not load that video...hahahaha
But do not worry, I watched it, Thanks


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

https://www.*****ute.com/video/qGqE92fIYBWR/

Administrators have to remove wording constraints from video links, plus recognize this other video server......but honestly, this place looks like it has been abandoned...a Lost City after a WWIII

[Duncan]

very true -- if I said the guy has probably had a bit of a talking to I think you know what I mean . as for b-i-t-c-h chute it takes a little getting used to. one extream to another I guess its what happens when serious censorship comes into play as it has on goo tube .kind regards Duncan