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**Altair** · 10-27-2009, 06:48 PM

Thanks for making all this fascinating material available.
I had just recently copied the postings you had made in the Stan Deyo thread.
I must admit that most of your material is over my head but makes for very interesting reading anyway. It just opens-up our mind.

Your post here almost makes us understand that you're preparing for the worse, I really hope it's not the case. Don't let "them" get to you without a fight.

Bruce Cathie has prepared some disclosure documentation that would be instantly dispersed throughout the net, in the event he was to suddenly "disappear". Nice way to advance knowledge of supressed subjects.

Anyway, I hope you do not plan on stopping your postings here; even if there are not many replies, do not take that as a lack of interest. It's rather a lack of understanding of the subject which keeps the comments and questions scarce. But what we read nevertheless stays in our mind, and slowly helps us to see the whole picture.

Thanks again for everything.

P.S. Is there any way you could give us good leads on the practical technology behind the X-GEN generators for home use.
If I could just get off the grid, that would be the highlight of my life.

Regards,

Guy

**SL3** · 10-28-2009, 04:15 AM

Revision

* Made a change to the Levitation page where I got a little too orgasmic in saying "The atom is the quanta!" That needed further explanation and clarification. Both true and untrue. Long story.

------------------

Hi Guy,

Thanks for the note. Much appreciated!

Yes, preparing for the worst. Implemented my own Cathie microchips scattered in the world now, too.

Can't really get into it for maybe years to come, but we're not really being bought off in the classical sense that is done with Free Energy suppression. It's just that our entire FE movement continually performs frontal assaults on a very hardened castle. That is why no FE technology has yet been well commercialized. When you walk two steps ahead of the crowd, you're hated. Walking one step ahead and you're loved while business becomes more possible. That's really all I can hint at there.

The free energy movement must always live on and resist, but, for a long time to come, these things will always be hobbyist explorations. You can take your house and car off-grid, and nobody will ever come to shoot you. Where they cannot assassinate you or character assassinate you, our enemies pull out many other cards to play. They try to put you in business checkmate and then just buy up your work. Where you don't give that, ooooh they don't like that but it allows a deeper level of negotiations. And, in contracts formed, one has to keep his word.

Basically, in order to further clean tech some, get our country a little better positioned, and better financially position my lab over the long-term....we threaten to disrupt the racket, ask our high prices and terrible terms, and then negotiate to a reasonable, win-win situation for all sides. Then you let that run its course awhile and do good commerce. The objective is not to raid the castle and destroy it, but to secure their surrender to our terms and come to a temporary peace. Then disrupted peace again, more negotiation, and gradual evolution of the castle's culture and business holdings closer to clean tech capacities.

Free Energy is that frontal assault upon the castle walls made by scary, scary savages.

But, clean & green tech with the Free Energy part toned down and actually designed away from unlimited energy production.....now that's a much more lucrative and ruthless prong of attack. And each year, you can convince the J.P. Morgans of the world to keep stepping up the "limited" production of power as is business lucrative to do so. Meanwhile, people like on this forum can probably figure out the mystery and design their own devices to at least do somewhat like our own.

It's like being a drug dealer, basically. If you have the ability to cheaply generate tons and tons of crack, it makes no sense and is too hard a fight to get it all on the market at once at $1000/ounce. The better course is not to push or market it, but to sprinkle it around free and cheap in each locality. To cut it down, dilute it, regulate supply, work with "The Man" and his nazi piggies, pay off the nazi piggies, pay off the politicians with your crack sales...and then pretty soon everyone's using your low-grade crack at $100/ounce. They enjoy it. Everyone wins some. Wild parties in every town.

Billions made. Clean tech industry put forward. Jobs made. Jobs in the energy rackets not lost. In time, the junkies get bored and need a new fix and profits level out, so you just don't cut down the crack so much and give them a little more whalup to it with each year.

If we can give you 1400 Watts of crack in a unit of 0.3kg that can run for years on end with no fuel, something like that really needs to be with just the military for awhile. It encounters too many barriers. But, if we totally redress it, downgrade it, make it heavier, and do some engineering sabotage to tweak it all down....then, it can become more like heavy units you can buy in the store someday that will allow you to run your house off-grid in emergencies, and cheaper/ cleaner than with gas/ diesel/ other fuels. Not so cheap that everyone can have one or threaten grid power, but affordable enough that you can have one for your home and future electric cars & plug-ins. And where we really don't need to plug in those cars, really the only way this lab can commercially get the technology to you someday with good commerce and clean tech things done is to force you to plug the units in at least a little bit.

To get them to you, we need to do some devious engineering that doesn't let you have truly Free Energy. That's all.

It's exactly like trying to do commerce with GPS when it first came out. "Oh my God! We can't have that! That threatens our commerce in LORAN, ADF, and VOR's. It would allow precision guidance to enemy missiles and aircraft. We can't have that!"

So what'd we do? GPS was first just a military thing. When people saw the billions of dollars in potential by taking it to civilian and global markets, The Man and his nazi piggies wanted that....but it had to be throttled down. It had to work with the industries already in the LORAN, ADF, and VOR markets to upgrade their product lines. Not to destroy the old tech, but to include it in the whole new navigation radio set. To leave it all in the cockpit but with new enhancements. And because GPS performance was too threatening and disruptive, it was agreed upon to commerce control it. Limited to allied countries; Legally off limits to enemy countries. But, because you cannot prevent that, GPS COCOM limits had to be installed into the hardware to render it useless at high altitudes and velocities. Accuracy had to be downgraded for civilian units. It goes the same with satellite imagery and its commerce. The really good stuff isn't allowed, but places like Google managed to negotiate a reasonable resolution for their whole Earth software with classified images removed from the database.

Like that, you can get the technology into market walking only 1 step ahead of the crowd. Two steps is bad. But, see, if you get the crowd walking at a faster pace with that 1 step ahead. Then, you can take another step ahead as they catch their breath. Properly leading a crowd or doing commerce is also about delivering products that the market and world are ready to accept. The world may want Free Energy, but the various market factors, economic, and political do not make that commercially viable for probably never.

All we can do is keep the hobbyist/ experimenter world fueled a bit each year and making constant trouble.

I think where Tesla failed in getting wireless power to market and securing Morgan's support was in his approach. Too excited to change the world with his genius, etc. Had he given Morgan a plan to encrypt those signals like we do with dish TV and decoder boxes...there Morgan would have loved it! No wires. No infrastructure. More profits Morgan could have made. A greater rate of electrification could have been achieved. All of Tesla's dreams on vehicles, flying machines, maritime, and the whole world off-grid....could have been achieved had he given a genius commercialization plan on it, too. A plan that was not so disruptive to the establishment, working with it, upgrading it, and making a win-win situation for everyone.

One has to be radical in science & tech, and then conservative in business approach to things, me thinks. Had Tesla done that, his dream would have been implemented to greater degree than today. "The Man" and his nazi piggies would still be metering it to you in dish TV form, but you'd at least be happy to pay for those new toys the same as you gladly pay for your Internet connection.

Snow Labs is basically at the position of trying to get you all GPS units at a reasonable price -- never free; never Free Energy, but cleaner tech and longer running, and as globally as possible -- and so that needs to be downgraded and encrypted like dish TV so that you're forced to rent the decoder boxes of our partners. Stuff like that. Like this, we can't get you a fully off-grid EV car in the near future but we can negotiate to at least get you a newer generation of high performance EV's at reasonable prices. Instead of pushing for unlimited miles and no gallons, we're basically using that ability to leverage giving you at least future hybrids that will push beyond the Aptera's 300 m.p.g. You still gotta buy gas or natural gas. Whatever. Gotta keep The Man and his nazi piggies cozy with the commerce, but due to the threat such tech poses...it allows us to at least negotiate an incremental improvement in fuel economy and clean tech capacities for the average American.

**SL3** · 10-28-2009, 04:16 AM

Part 2 (Wow, I am long-winded)

Whatever the case, no technology can grow into widespread use without commerce that deviously maneuvers into good position and at least niche markets. There's a difference between technical capacity, great ideas, and the many complexities involved in securing marketplace adoption. That adoption factor involves far more than just consumer demand and is a very treacherous political and business climate. I prefer to fight along paths of least resistance, never until the fight is already won, as softly as possible on the enemy, and always trying to work a win-win deal for everyone.

I'm sorry that I cannot give you anything more from Snow Labs at this point, but there is plenty of information and technology on this forum alone. You don't have to build some wonder device to power your home. Just keep being in the Free Energy club. Get together with your free energy pals in every town as you do now. I belong to a small free energy group locally. These guys secretly work on their devices. If you want to be off-grid, all you need do is scrounge up some junkyard batteries, cut them open, drain the acid, and replace with Alum electrolyte (as John Bedini taught)...so then you have alkaline batteries for recharging. Build your battery bank up cheaply from junkyard batteries. Wire up a DC to AC converter of suitable wattage for your needs. Grid interties get pricey, but you can always rig up an on/off switch.

So, there's your feed and household power supply. Then, all you have to do is recharge those batteries. There are Bedini and Konzen motor plans all over the web for that. If you do it right, such a homebuilt system will cost you less than buying a full solar system. There are great little gizmos like Imhotep's fan motor. You can get those fans free at garage sales. Just keep modular stacking them as battery rechargers. Start with just one battery conversion in your garage tied to a typical DC to AC inverter of say 800 Watts continuous/ 1600 Watts instantaneous AC. Figure out how much you want to draw off that battery and how quickly you want to recharge it. For about 8 hours of your sleeping time, you don't need to be using electricity, so just like with solar panels, recharge the system by day but also by night. Many of these hobbyist conversions of old, junkyard motors to free energy electrical generators....that's the way to go.

Look into some of the latest wind power tech on permanent magnet alternators. In China, they have a 50 kilowatt alternator unit that you can also spin with one of those perpetual magnetic motors. Whether Konzen, or Bedini, or variants thereof...get your RPM and torque up enough to spin scrap alternators. Every junkyard alternator is around 60 to 100 Watts. Doug Konzen has some great conversions. Tom Bearden's MEG is another great device. There's a magnetic motor out in Australia that seems like a knockoff of Bedini or some variant of it. They were capable of powering homes at about 20 kilowatts.

Or, if you read my website enough, you'll notice I'm fond of heated quartz making high voltage nuclear triggers. There's a self-charging battery patent in USPTO out of Poland in regard to quartz and aluminum cells -- like a capacitor coiling of that to tap Vacuum energy. Nothing to stop you from putting that atop a flame to step up the voltage & amps, too.

Mechanically, there are some interesting very efficient devices out there for those of you who don't like all the conehead electrical stuff. The John Kanzius burning of salt water with microwave excitation is one of the best things I've seen. People on the forum here have the skills to replicate that.
That's all fuel-burning. Our first X-GEN units now scrapped were designed around use of butane as the working fluid in an Organic Rankine Cycle system. Just a pilot light propane flame heating butane. Steam run into a microturbine tied into an alternator. Exit steam run through heat exchangers/ condensors. Heat exchangers cooled by a trickle flow of fresh, cooling water from my well...or you could push electric fan systems to do it. That kind of motor basically burns the potential energy in cold, and not so much fuel. About 12 times less fuel consumption to do the same as fuel-based generators. Meaning, you could take a 50 m.p.g Prius and push it to around 600 m.p.g. while running natural gas or diesel. It's just a motor that runs like a Sterling, but with the differential between hot and cold giving RPM and torque. Concentrate and insulate the heat, use a very volatile working fluid, and then upkeep the cooling. What happens is you're basically "burning" the cold air or cold water more so than the fuel to do the same work. It's not energy from the Vacuum or "free energy", but is pretty much the conversion of negative potential energy into positive kinetic energy. I scrapped that on the drawing board long ago in favor of Free Energy research, however.

All in all, in regard to charging your battery bank there, I would say just study from Doug Konzen's work. Build those to power your homes. You don't need anything from Snow Labs, really.

I'll still be around now and then, but we're going to need to break away from the whole frontal assault on that castle. Doesn't mean the fight has stopped, but just that we're fighting in different and more ruthless form. Getting anything done is always a calculated risk, so I am happy to find on my stats that many of you have insured my work to date will always be in the free energy library. So long as the Snow Labs website is up, I may add to it over time here and there, but am just going to need to be quiet on the Free Energy front for some time.

But, quiet is much the riot!

All the best to each of you and keep up the good work! Forget the commerce stuff. Just keep spreading what you do already. People at all levels know about it and the nazis hate it. They hate it as much as they hate many of my alternative medicine pals and their curative work, but just keep doing it and spreading it. The oligarchy can never suppress we serfs too much and so they're always trying to give you the illusion of liberty and scientific progress. To do commerce well and secure new and devious positions, my lab has to play into that illusion some. Truth always comes out in the end, though. Best I can say is that, if we do what we're scheming and it makes oodles for all involved, when you do find out the truth eventually...it'll make you bust up laughing.

The businessman who proposed the strategy to me is a genius and very familiar with the realities Free Energy faces in going commercial. But there are always many angles to play! Snow Labs is just putting a halt to any further frontal assault and disclosure. Time to do ruthless business while ensuring no knives in my back are possible and your having downloaded my archives ensures that.

Thank you guys. You each now guard my life more than you know!

Stan

**Altair** · 10-29-2009, 01:44 AM

Thanks Stan for the detailed reply.
You really nailed it regarding the way things go in this crooked world. You have a way with words that I can only applaud

This message will be a keeper.

As you said so well, we can only seed the knowledge among ourselves, so that there are more and more of us each day that nibbles at the big castle. Like ants, we will continue slowly but relentlessly.

Your visit here has been an inspiration, and I hope, not only for me.

Thanks for everything.

Guy

P.S. You should write a book sometime

**ANTIQUER** · 10-29-2009, 06:04 AM

SL3;

Yes, you are long-winded and cryptic and I am surprised that when descending from your throne to impart a few words to us mere mortals you didn't trip over your own ego.

While apparently intellectually and technically brilliant, you are lacking in some areas, as is common with nerdy types. I am not denigrating you for that, just acknowledging a trait common to some highly intelligent people, like Einstein.

What I really want to address here is your misinterpretation of bible verses, since you constantly quote some of them as the basis for your assertion that man is supposed to go to the stars and there will be no apocalyptic ending.

Gen. 8:21-The key to this verse is "as I have done". Read on to chapter 9:9-17. Here it is explained that God would never again destroy all life with a flood and he sets the rainbow in the sky as a permanent sign of this.
Also, Gen. 8:22 begins "While the Earth remaineth...", indicating it will (as we know it ) be destroyed later.

Gen. 15:5- God tells Noah "Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be."
Noah didn't have a telescope, so how many stars could he see with his naked eyes? Apparently we reached that number long ago: from The Amplified Bible Hebrews 11:12-"So from one man(Abraham) though he was physically as good as dead, there have sprung descendants whose number is as the stars of heaven and as countless as the innumerable sands on the seashore." So the number was reached by the time of Paul.

I don't know how, as one who claims to read the bible and quotes from it, you can claim there is no apocalyptic end to mankind and the earth as we know them. Jesus proclaimed it (Matt.24:4-14) in the New Testament. The Old Testament, particularly the major prophets, is full of references to and descriptions of it. (See Ezekial chapters 38 and 39). However, as a Christian I have no fear of it as the Christians are taken off the earth before the holocaust to be with the Lord. God does not judge his people with unbelievers. ( II Thess. 2:7, I Thess. 4:16-18., I Cor. 15:51-53.)

I suggest you chuck that Latin based bible. It was translated from the original languages the bible was written in into Latin and then back into English, using the King James as an aid. (See previous posts concerning this in "Bible" thread). The King James was translated directly from the Hebrew, Amaraic, Greek, etc. into English, therefor a better translation. A Schofield Reference version of the KJV along with The Amplified for clarification is a much better choice.

I do wish you success with your technical/business ventures as I believe mankind, even obliquely, will benefit from them.

Al

**Shamus** · 10-29-2009, 02:09 PM

Er, uh, one thing to keep in mind about visions of apocalypse is that the book of Revelation was written by the Masons. The imagery is unmistakable.

Also: It's easy to make written predictions come true if you're running the show. That is all.

**baroutologos** · 10-29-2009, 04:10 PM

Hello there.

At some point in some posts above, you propose tou scavenge some old lead-acid batteries and drain the acid and replace it with some alcaline electrolyte if i get it correctly.

Why is that i wonder.
What is the purpose of it? They have more capacity? They get recharged easier? They manifest OU easier?

Pls, get int trouble and answer those questions.

Baroutologos

**h20power** · 10-29-2009, 04:27 PM

Haven't you heard how Stanley Meyer made use of water as a fuel source is already out in the thread tittle, "Stanley Meyer Explained." The only thing everyone will have to do is build it for themselves. Why? The powers that be will come down on any attemps to mass produce this technology because it haults their carbon tax agenda.

h2opower.

Originally posted by SL3 View Post

Whatever the case, no technology can grow into widespread use without commerce that deviously maneuvers into good position and at least niche markets. There's a difference between technical capacity, great ideas, and the many complexities involved in securing marketplace adoption. That adoption factor involves far more than just consumer demand and is a very treacherous political and business climate. I prefer to fight along paths of least resistance, never until the fight is already won, as softly as possible on the enemy, and always trying to work a win-win deal for everyone.

I'm sorry that I cannot give you anything more from Snow Labs at this point, but there is plenty of information and technology on this forum alone. You don't have to build some wonder device to power your home. Just keep being in the Free Energy club. Get together with your free energy pals in every town as you do now. I belong to a small free energy group locally. These guys secretly work on their devices. If you want to be off-grid, all you need do is scrounge up some junkyard batteries, cut them open, drain the acid, and replace with Alum electrolyte (as John Bedini taught)...so then you have alkaline batteries for recharging. Build your battery bank up cheaply from junkyard batteries. Wire up a DC to AC converter of suitable wattage for your needs. Grid interties get pricey, but you can always rig up an on/off switch.

So, there's your feed and household power supply. Then, all you have to do is recharge those batteries. There are Bedini and Konzen motor plans all over the web for that. If you do it right, such a homebuilt system will cost you less than buying a full solar system. There are great little gizmos like Imhotep's fan motor. You can get those fans free at garage sales. Just keep modular stacking them as battery rechargers. Start with just one battery conversion in your garage tied to a typical DC to AC inverter of say 800 Watts continuous/ 1600 Watts instantaneous AC. Figure out how much you want to draw off that battery and how quickly you want to recharge it. For about 8 hours of your sleeping time, you don't need to be using electricity, so just like with solar panels, recharge the system by day but also by night. Many of these hobbyist conversions of old, junkyard motors to free energy electrical generators....that's the way to go.

Look into some of the latest wind power tech on permanent magnet alternators. In China, they have a 50 kilowatt alternator unit that you can also spin with one of those perpetual magnetic motors. Whether Konzen, or Bedini, or variants thereof...get your RPM and torque up enough to spin scrap alternators. Every junkyard alternator is around 60 to 100 Watts. Doug Konzen has some great conversions. Tom Bearden's MEG is another great device. There's a magnetic motor out in Australia that seems like a knockoff of Bedini or some variant of it. They were capable of powering homes at about 20 kilowatts.

Or, if you read my website enough, you'll notice I'm fond of heated quartz making high voltage nuclear triggers. There's a self-charging battery patent in USPTO out of Poland in regard to quartz and aluminum cells -- like a capacitor coiling of that to tap Vacuum energy. Nothing to stop you from putting that atop a flame to step up the voltage & amps, too.

Mechanically, there are some interesting very efficient devices out there for those of you who don't like all the conehead electrical stuff. The John Kanzius burning of salt water with microwave excitation is one of the best things I've seen. People on the forum here have the skills to replicate that.
That's all fuel-burning. Our first X-GEN units now scrapped were designed around use of butane as the working fluid in an Organic Rankine Cycle system. Just a pilot light propane flame heating butane. Steam run into a microturbine tied into an alternator. Exit steam run through heat exchangers/ condensors. Heat exchangers cooled by a trickle flow of fresh, cooling water from my well...or you could push electric fan systems to do it. That kind of motor basically burns the potential energy in cold, and not so much fuel. About 12 times less fuel consumption to do the same as fuel-based generators. Meaning, you could take a 50 m.p.g Prius and push it to around 600 m.p.g. while running natural gas or diesel. It's just a motor that runs like a Sterling, but with the differential between hot and cold giving RPM and torque. Concentrate and insulate the heat, use a very volatile working fluid, and then upkeep the cooling. What happens is you're basically "burning" the cold air or cold water more so than the fuel to do the same work. It's not energy from the Vacuum or "free energy", but is pretty much the conversion of negative potential energy into positive kinetic energy. I scrapped that on the drawing board long ago in favor of Free Energy research, however.

All in all, in regard to charging your battery bank there, I would say just study from Doug Konzen's work. Build those to power your homes. You don't need anything from Snow Labs, really.

I'll still be around now and then, but we're going to need to break away from the whole frontal assault on that castle. Doesn't mean the fight has stopped, but just that we're fighting in different and more ruthless form. Getting anything done is always a calculated risk, so I am happy to find on my stats that many of you have insured my work to date will always be in the free energy library. So long as the Snow Labs website is up, I may add to it over time here and there, but am just going to need to be quiet on the Free Energy front for some time.

But, quiet is much the riot!

All the best to each of you and keep up the good work! Forget the commerce stuff. Just keep spreading what you do already. People at all levels know about it and the nazis hate it. They hate it as much as they hate many of my alternative medicine pals and their curative work, but just keep doing it and spreading it. The oligarchy can never suppress we serfs too much and so they're always trying to give you the illusion of liberty and scientific progress. To do commerce well and secure new and devious positions, my lab has to play into that illusion some. Truth always comes out in the end, though. Best I can say is that, if we do what we're scheming and it makes oodles for all involved, when you do find out the truth eventually...it'll make you bust up laughing.

The businessman who proposed the strategy to me is a genius and very familiar with the realities Free Energy faces in going commercial. But there are always many angles to play! Snow Labs is just putting a halt to any further frontal assault and disclosure. Time to do ruthless business while ensuring no knives in my back are possible and your having downloaded my archives ensures that.

Thank you guys. You each now guard my life more than you know!

Stan

**ANTIQUER** · 10-30-2009, 03:08 AM

Masons?

Shamus;

Er, uh, one thing to keep in mind about visions of apocalypse is that the book of Revelation was written by the Masons. The imagery is unmistakable.

Also: It's easy to make written predictions come true if you're running the show. That is all.
Today 02:04 AM

If you can supply some evidence of that I'd like to see it. Otherwise I'll just consider it one of the most ridiculous ideas I've heard.

While the leadership may have been a powerful bunch of Satan worshipers claiming to be Christian in order to mislead folks in secret rites, they would hardly have any interest in writing anything to go in the bible. Indeed, they were not even organized as a group until the late 1600's and here is a sample of what happens when they are exposed:

Secrets and Power of the Masons Revealed

Captain Morgan of Batavia New York was the first person to reveal some of the inner secrets of Freemasonry, which resulted in the Masons murdering him. He revealed the initiation rites of the lower degrees or the Blue Degrees, which included rituals, passwords, and secret oaths. William T. Still wrote in his book New World Order: �The concern over the influence of secret societies in the United States grew steadily until an anti-Masonic explosion erupted in 1826, after the murder of one Captain William Morgan, of Batavia New York. Morgan was killed by Masons shortly after obtaining a copyright for an expose on Masonry. Morgan�s crime was that he was the first to publish the complete rituals, including the oaths and secret passwords of the first three degrees of Masonry, known as the Blue Lodge (p. 98).�

Now Captain Morgan�s book touched off a firestorm. According to William T. Still in 1826 there were 50,000 Masons in America. After the publishing of this book 45,000 left the Masons and resulted in as many 2,000 lodges closing between 1830-1840. As the result of this scandal, a political party called the Anti-Mason party was formed. It got 130,000 votes in the 1832 presidential election and carried the state of Vermont. William T. Still quoted William J. Whalen�s writing in 1958, who explained: ��Rhode Island and Vermont passed laws against blood oaths. Thousands of Masons burned their aprons. In a few years time, membership in the New York lodges dropped from 30,000 to 300 as a direct result of the Morgan incident( p. 108).�

You can read the full article on Masonry here:

Freemasons, Part One

And who do you think is running the show? The Mason's?

Al

**SL3** · 10-30-2009, 04:56 AM

Replies

Hi guys,

Gotta keep it quick tonight, not to be terse. Then, I won't be back here for some time.
---------------------

Altair....

Antiquer...

The King James was translated directly from the Hebrew, Amaraic, Greek, etc. into English, therefor a better translation. A Schofield Reference version of the KJV along with The Amplified for clarification is a much better choice.

...I don't buy it. Don't care to argue about it. I like my 72 Latin Vulgate. You can keep that 66 book King James with it's inaccurate translations -- particularly on Mary. You know the Moslems are always bashing us on this bible stuff. How many bibles versions are there floating around among Protestants now? That and every Jim Jones or Dave Koresh can pick up one, call himself "Bible based" for "Christ Jeeeeeeeeeezus!!!", shake down the sheep for for more cash (because they don't buy into Poverty, Chastity, Humility as the required way of true priests), and next thing you know they're all yapping on this or that while thinking themselves Pope. Phewey!!!!

....As for no Apocalypse. I never said that. You misquote me or misunderstood me there. I said it's a long, long way off. Think about it. St. Peter was yapping on and on about the End of the World upon us. It is, but that was 2000 years ago. We live in about Revelations 12 right now, sure. But, with only 66 books in that Mr. 666 bible of heathens and heretics you're reading

....it's understandable they mix up the translations and languages.

I could care less what Christians yap about. That's not true Christianity anyhow. Real Christianity dwells with the missionary:

YouTube - Mother Teresa - Grace by U2

...Not all this "I'm better than you, heathen" crap of the very same kind of scriptural Sanhedrin that would have crucified Christ back then. I'm so sick of most Christians with all their church-going hypocrisy and parish level yapping. Catholics and Protestants included. Which of your Protestants said it best? Billy Graham? If you want to find a hypocrite, go to church. If you want to find an honest man, go to a bar.

...As for the Apocalypse, I can't debate over that which is not yet here and all speculation anyhow. But, think about this. Mankind is starting to control gravity. The control of gravity is simultaneously also the control of Time and Space. We are moving into an Apocalyptic future where your waiting for Jesus to return is BOTH millions and gazillions of years away while also just tomorrow...and already happened....if you start to understand that we all just live under Eternity's umbrella anyhow. And that's a truth written into the entire Bible. So, you say tomorrow. I say a million and more years away. Same thing! It's kinda hard to see that, though. But, the future we go into, yes, will continue to grow more and more crazy, Apocalyptic, and never as we mere cavemen think at the time. That is the only certain trend we continually see in history. We're moving into times when man will no longer be able to distinguish between dreams and reality = insanity. He won't even know the time on his watch except by the stars. As for Christians "raptured" away...I find that the most chick poop, un-Christian yapping I've ever seen. Real Christians would stay and fight.

Selfish chickens and hypocrites all love that kind of pseudo-priest babble. Don't buy into it. It's all a racket!!! Shake down them sheep. Pastor's gotta keep the wife and kids fed. Gotta keep his ministry going and growing, and maybe someday he, too, can toot around in a Leerjet while yapping in vanity about "Christ Jeeeeeeeeeeezus".

The way of Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa....that's my brew of Christianity and, no offense (or take it that way if you must), but I don't give a hoot about any other heresies.

Should have burnt them heretic devils at the stake long, long ago but, no, we were too Christian!

baroutologos..... John Bedini would be your expert on that alkaline battery stuff. Visit his site.

H20power....Stanley Meyer made use of water as a fuel source? Maybe so. No, I haven't studied it much at all. Not my interest. Fuel-burning technology of any kind limits the aerospace applications we chase. Maybe it's good. Maybe not. I only take a detailed focus on things of my interest. There's so much out there still I cannot possibly explore it all, but only where fitting our interests.

Re: Freemasons.

...Most good. Some bad. Some left-wing; Some right-wing. A minority in league with the Devil, yes. A general introduction to cosmopolitan theology and philosophy, yes. A watering down of the Christian? Can be. Then again, some of the best Christians are also former Masons. Even former occultists. In any case, the 33rd Mason is nothing more than like an Eagle Scout badge or high school graduation compared to what's really going on at the conclave level of things to the world. I don't even bother entertaining the conspiracy yapping on it because they don't have a clue and most 33rd Masons are still trying to figure it out themselves. The people doing all the yapping and selling of books or whatever out there all say, "Oooooh, the 33rd Mason. Ooooooooh creepy and scary. Trying to own the world they are!" Try perhaps! Own it? Never. That's like asking a Kindergartener to function in high school and college.

Truth: Most 1st to 33rd Masons are the best men and Americans you'll ever know -- as innocent as is the average Boy Scout (which is their Masonic subsidiary, also). Just like the Eagle Scout, they study and do a lot to make 32nd and 33rd degrees....but, in the end, what is a benevolent Eagle Scout among the world of politics, business, and all the world's evils? Sure, Eagle Scouts often make President. Sure, they're versed in Masonic ideals and even watered down Christian theology that operates under a general God.....but, in the end, the deepest doctrines of Masonry are no secret at all. You can find that on the web and in the libraries with ease these days. If you want to know what really does the most evil in the world, you need to trace back to what it was that created Hitler's S.S. and it wasn't Masonry. The Nazis persecuted Masons, as do most tyrannical, communist, or overly theocratic states.

Masonry is a strong foundation of the pyramid scheme, but not the middle and top stones. And there are two pyramid schemes for the world: One the way the good Mason wants the world to become. The other the devilish way the few bad Masons and other factions try to design it. All of Western world history does, yes, boil down to a struggle between those interests and nobody really cares what we serfs make of it.

See you guys around and all the best to you,

Stan

**Shamus** · 10-30-2009, 04:58 PM

@Al:

As you've obviously not done your homework on this subject I'm not about to go and do it for you. Masonry goes back to the Mystery Religion and that goes back to Ancient Greece, Egypt, India and probably Tibet as well. And the Catholic Church? Look at the roots of it and things start to look, er, well, rosy. They didn't call it the "Universal Church" back then for nothing! And if you look at ancient religions you will begin to notice some very interesting "coincidences" (in scare quotes, because I personally don't believe in coincidences).

As a start, you might want to look here. Also, this image tells much for those with eyes to see. The whole book is a mostly a load of overblown, pompous, self-righteous blathering with some real gold nuggets strewn around here and there.

@Stan:

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this crap about keeping the technology out of the hands of the eeeeeeeeeeevil terrorists and/or bogeyman of the week. I've got a news flash for you: The bad guys already have the tech. And furthermore, they (read: USGOV) don't need you at all 'cause they've got it all figured out already (don't think so? try Bacon's The New Atlantis). You think you're on the cutting edge of science but you're playing catch-up--why do you think they call it REsearch?

Sure, the USA has one of the most powerful military apparatus in the world, but for how much longer? All of our manufacturing is gone (with maybe some military contractors as the exception) and the economy is in the toilet and fingers are poised on the handle, getting ready to flush it down. How long can the USA sustain its behemoth military without any manufacturing base or tax revenue to back it up? My money is on "not much longer".

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

**ANTIQUER** · 10-31-2009, 03:52 AM

Shamus;

As you've obviously not done your homework on this subject I'm not about to go and do it for you. Masonry goes back to the Mystery Religion and that goes back to Ancient Greece, Egypt, India and probably Tibet as well.

Actually, I did my investigation of Masonry, etc. many years ago (even wrote a paper on it) and did some reviewing before answering you. The only mystery to me concerning Masonry is how anyone could fall for this baloney.(And yes, I looked at your links: a little historical knowledge laced together with speculation and "mystical" terminology) It's all a bunch of hooey masquerading as Christianity and designed to ensnare people who have a need to join a club and be "one of the boys" or one of "the inner circle".

It's a form of Gnosticism which teaches you need special knowledge to find or know the truth. This special knowledge is available only to a narrow circle of enlightened, initiated, or specially educated people. It was taught by Tertullian and Montanus in the early days of the Catholic church, but was declared a heresy by the church and gradually disappeared by the 3rd. century.

This teaching was creeping in to the church at Colossi and is one of the main reasons Paul wrote his epistle to them, to warn against it. Col. 2:8-10 sums it up; "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him,which is the head of all principality and power." So we don't need any special knowledge to know God, we got it all through Christ.

As to what the Masons teach or worship here is an exert from the link I gave you before:

On first glance the Mason�s god appears to be the same God of the Bible or Yahweh Elohim, but on closer investigation this is not true. On closer scrutiny of the Freemasons writings one can see that they worship nothing more than the pagan mystery religions� gods or deities.

The Masons called their god �The Great Architect of the Universe.� Albert Pike brings out this point in a lecture he gave to 28th Degree Masons in a work called MAGNUM OPUS: He writes: �We conclude this Lecture with that which has always been, and we believe always will be the Masonic idea of the Supreme Being: We call Him the Grand Architect of the Universe, considering that Universe as His most significant temple and perfect work of architecture (p. 42).� Although this god, �The Great Architect of the Universe,� is in reality Yahweh-Elohim, the Masonic writings show that they are referring to another God by the attributes they have given to him. We find out later after careful investigation, the other god they refer to is Lucifer. In short, as Albert Pike says there are two meanings.

In the Masonic writings on �The Great Architect of the Universe,� whom they worship in the Masonic hall, the Masons use many ancient symbols and pagan deities to refer to this god. They are the Sun, the snake, and the Egyptian God Osiris. Manly P. Hall, a 33 degree Masons, in his book The Secret Teaching of All Ages say that the ancient rites of the Sun God are alive in the Masons. He states: �Sun worship played an important part in nearly all the early pagan Mysteries. The Solar Deity ... was slain by wicked ruffians, who personified the evil principle of the universe. By means of certain rituals and ceremonies, symbolic of purification and regeneration, this wonderful God of Good was brought back to life and became the Savior of His people ... in Masonry, the ancient religious and philosophical principles still survive.� Thus, we have one great mason saying that pagan rites and ceremonies are believed in masonry. This contradicts the scriptures, for Yahweh forbade Israel from worshipping any graven images or idols. In addition, Albert Pike in his writings said the ancient Egyptian Sun god and Osiris rival the god Adonai, which is Yahweh-Elohim, according to the book Masonry Conspiracy against Christianity.

There you have it from the book by a powerful 33rd degree mason himself.
Here is the link again if you wish to read it all:

Freemasons, Part One

Paul wrote about pagan idol worshipers and their end in Romans 1:18-32.

As to where Masonry originated that is all shear speculation; no known history, just speculation adorned and embellished and then repeated over time, like Hiram Abif. He is a central figure in some of their rituals. They claim he is mentioned in the bible and helped build Solomon's temple. Wrong!
He was not mentioned in Masonry in 1717 (Which is when this Mason declares they began), but was a major figure by 1730. What? Here is the real story from a Mason:

Hiram Abif

So while powerful people have been Masons and no doubt had a lot influence
in this world, as most wealthy/powerful people do, I don't think they had anything to do with writing The Book of Revelation.

As for the Catholic church they still refer to it as "universal". Since I don't consider it a true Christian church I don't care how they refer to it. The requirements for a true New Testament church are spelled out there many times and the Catholic's don't meet it. Among other things Christ spoke many times against the priests, and declared Himself the only high priest and the only one a Christian needs. I am a Baptist and they were never associated with the Catholics and did not come out of them as the Protestant churches did. Baptists, Jews, and a few others were the ones the Catholics persecuted as they would not follow their incorrect doctrines.

Finally, I see nothing coincidental in the commonalities of pagan religions either: nor is there anything mysterious about it. The same Devil that has been trying to pervert and lead mankind away from God since the fall of Adam is behind it all and he is the common denominator/ link and he is still at it.

Al

**Shamus** · 11-02-2009, 03:42 AM

I think the point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter if the religion that went by the name of Rosicrusianism (or Mithraism) then or Freemasonry now or Fundaligionism (Hallelujahgobble!) in the future calls itself. Freemasonry is only the latest iteration of an ancient Mystery Religion that goes back into the mists of time. And careful study will reveal this link through time. Whether this group has wielded undue influence over the eons is left as an exercise for the reader.

Personally I find it interesting that certain Christian sects get all hung up on certain versions of the bible, and especially the KJV. I'm pretty sure you won't find this in any current version of that book, but the original introduction was quite interesting. Especially for protestants who had supposedly eschewed the Pope of the Universal Church:

TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE,

JAMES,

BY THE GRACE OF GOD,

KING OF GREAT BRITIAN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND,

DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, Etc.

The Translators of the Bible wish Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
through JESUS CHRIST our Lord.

Great and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our Sion, that, upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth, of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk, and that it should hardly be known who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of Your Majesty, as the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness, and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title; and this also accompanied with peace and tranquility at home and abroad.

But among all our joys, there was no one that more filled our hearts than the blessed continuance of the preaching of God's sacred Word among us, which is that inestimable treasure which excelleth all the riches of the earth; because the fruit thereof extendeth itself, not only to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that eternal happiness which is above in heaven.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it; nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a man, in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person, who, under God, is the immediate author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe that the zeal of Your Majesty manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that Man of Sin as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing father.

And of course it is well known that old "Shamey Jamey" was a freemason and fond of other activities with small boys that would get any normal person put to death. And of course it suited the Masons that John of Patmos and John the Apostle were conflated in the minds of the people who read that translation.

But in all seriousness, a lengthy study of the book of Revelation pointing out the links and imagery of the Mystery Religion contained therein would be pointless.

**ANTIQUER** · 11-02-2009, 08:06 AM

Shamus;

I think the point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter if the religion that went by the name of Rosicrusianism (or Mithraism) then or Freemasonry now or Fundaligionism (Hallelujahgobble!) in the future calls itself. Freemasonry is only the latest iteration of an ancient Mystery Religion that goes back into the mists of time. And careful study will reveal this link through time. Whether this group has wielded undue influence over the eons is left as an exercise for the reader.

And my point is no matter what it's called it is Paganism and it's practitioners and their end is described in Romans 1:18-32.

The dedicatory page is included today in some KJV bibles and not in others. It seems to be at the discretion of the publisher. Here's the rest of it that you omitted:

There are infinite arguments of this right christian and religious affection in Your Majesty; but none is more forcible to declare it to others than the vehement and perpetuated desire of accomplishing and publishing of this work, which now with all humility we present unto Your Majesty. For when Your Highness had once out of deep judgment apprehended how convenient it was, that out of the Original Sacred Tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our own, and other foreign Languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact Translation of the holy Scriptures into the English Tongue; Your Majesty did never desist to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the work might be hastened, and that the business might be expedited in so decent a manner, as a matter of such importance might justly require.

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of illmeaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavours against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

The Lord of heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days, that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great GOD, and the good of his Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.

Whether James was a Homosexual or not has been debated since his death. Here is a link which briefly presents both points of view;

July 2009 Article - Examing the Lies of the King James Attackers Part 5

It doesn't really matter. Here's why:

Second, Does this Matter in arguments over the Bible? The short answer here is no, but let me explain further.

1) King James Authorized the translation but had nothing to do with the process of translation. The King James Bible is also known as the Authorized Version because it was authorized by King James. The King was not on the translation committee, he did not have anything to do with the work, he simply authorized or commissioned the translation. Unlike the many open and proud Homosexuals who have done work on many of the modern Bibles, Even if he was a homosexual (and the jury is still out on that) King James had nothing to do with the translation and wording of the Bible that bears his name.

2) The King James Bible was not called the King James Bible until over 275 years after his death. Read the Title page of any good King James Bible and you will realize that the words King James do not appear. Typically you will read �The Holy Bible containing the Old and New Testaments translated out of the original tongues and with the former translations diligently compared and revised by His Majesty�s special command. Appointed to be read in churches� For the longest time our Bible was simply known as the Holy Bible, but in the early 1900�s things changed.

3) Why Identification is necessary. With the Bible or anything else, Identification is only needed when the waters become muddied. Let me explain. We as independent Baptists believe that our line runs all the way back to the time of Christ and the churches of the New Testament, however there is not one church in the New Testament identified as a Baptist Church. Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, the church at Philippi and so on. Imagine how confusing that would be today. After the establishment of New Testament churches before long false religion crept in and false churches were started. It became necessary to further identify which church was being referred to, so we began to further label churches.

4) The same thing became necessary with the Bible. When our King James Bibles rolled off the presses in 1611 it was simply the Holy Bible. All through the 1700�s and 1800�s it was still simply the Holy Bible. In the late 1800�s things began to change and new and updated Bibles began to be printed (1890-Darby�s New Testament, 1895- English Revised Version 1898-Young�s Literal Translation, 1901-American Standard Version, and on it went) Once the flood of Bible Versions began, it was no longer sufficient to refer to the Holy Bible, and further identification became necessary. Since the 1611 translation of the Bible was Authorized by King James, our Bible became known as the King James Bible, the Authorized Version or even the Authorized King James Bible.

So, was King James a homosexual? Truthfully I don�t know. Can this be used to discredit our Bible? I don�t see how. King James had nothing to do with the translation work and our Bible didn�t even bear his name until almost 300 years after his death. Another lie of the attackers has been laid to rest.

Was James a Mason? No.

ng James was NOT a Freemason

�I thank God, I was never ashamed to give account of my profession, howsoever the malicious lying tongues of some have traduced me...� � King James, Basilikon Doron

Many are accusing King James of being a Freemason (saying he was entered in various degrees, involved himself with the rituals), but this is pure speculation:

�Edward Macbean claims that the initiation of James VI, King of Scotland [to Freemasonry], is apocryphal, and it must be noted that there is no primary source documentation.�

Source: Contract or Mutual Agreement of 1658

The grand (Masonic) lodge of Scotland does not list or recognize King James in the �Monarchs� section:

See: Grand Masonic Lodge of Scotland

There is no malleable fact or evidence of King James being involved with Freemasonry (what degree was he in? Which lodges did he go to? Why didn�t he write about it? etc).

Here is the whole article;

King James was NOT a Freemason

And of course it suited the Masons that John of Patmos and John the Apostle were conflated in the minds of the people who read that translation.

And where is the proof of that?

But in all seriousness, a lengthy study of the book of Revelation pointing out the links and imagery of the Mystery Religion contained therein would be pointless.

Probably, but post a couple that you consider the most obvious; it might be fun!

Al

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