Spontaneous charging radiantly charged capacitor research group

[gotoluc]

I agree with Dr. Stiffler that a logical testing approach is needed.

To make a convincing experiment I would suggest one would need 2 sets of identical capacitors, a DPDT switch, two volt meters to monitor each set of caps and also a capacitance meter to measure each set prior to the test to show the cap uf value.

Charge both banks to the same voltage but obviously one with radiant and conditioned caps and the other set with dc. Flip the DPDT switch so both short together and release it. If one set is recovering more or faster then the other (hopefully the conditioned caps) then we would have something more solid to work from.

Would you be up to the task Matt or anyone else?

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

originally posted by DrStiffler
Much confusion exists here and I feel that it is normally the result of improper measurement and mathematical assessment.

Not to be a smart ass or anything but do you think could give us a little more enlightenment. I mean the meter says 40 volt, after an hour so. Sparks fly when shorted. Thats the only claim made.... And partially shown in the video. Other have experienced this as well. The caps were charged from monopole, inductive,transient and/or radiant spikes (You choose the name)

It is possible that the electrolyte is flooded with energy but... how many times is it going to recharge a fair amount before it is not flooded? LOL
And why does it charge better in the day than at night, better when its dry then when its wet...

And with all this what is "Proper Measurement" and what would a "Mathematical Assessment" consist of.
Please poor it on us, I would very much like some direction, but...
I can hardly see the point of making a statement at all to this context if you are not going to fill in the details.

Naa we gotta ask for enlightenment..No one is willing to fill in a little detail in an "Open Source" community.

No offense intended.

Charge both banks to the same voltage but obviously one with radiant and conditioned caps and the other set with dc. Flip the DPDT switch so both short together and release it. If one set is recovering more or faster then the other (hopefully the conditioned caps) then we would have something more solid to work from.

It not fair. The radiant side outputs (At the diode) 96+- volts on the meter at .5 amp. So you would have to charge the caps at that same rate with DC. Or else one cap would have 200 + volt and the other would have 12.

The outcome of the test though is as expected on 2 separate caps charged then discharged through 2 relays on one switch. The DC one recharged to .13, the radiant charged to 12.47 in one minutes time.

Like I said not fair. You would need to step up the DC voltage, I can't do that to that level off the top of my head.

Matt

[Inquorate]

I'll have a crack at it thisafternoon

And I'll try get the voltages level. I expect there to be a difference, I've only seen spontaneous recharging with the radiantly charged caps - I first came across it by touching the capacitor when it had been disconnected. I've come across it also when I received a shock from my spark gap hv magnetic diode, which had been disconnected from the circuit for about a minute. No caps there.

But, in the interest of the scientific approach, I'll impose restrictions on the variables.

Love and light

[barbosi]

Maybe it's because it never gets to zero volts, and is trying to recharge...

A SCR turns off when current through it is zero (not voltage!!!). From here you may find convenient to change the phase (U vs I) and at resonance having 90 degrees, you could turn off the SCR while voltage is max.

[sucahyo]

Even if the cap is direct shorted with a 0 ohm short, it will recover some energy from the dielectric when the short is removed.

If the HV make the capacitor retain charge, this explain why battery charged with spike without current and low voltage DC with current at the same moment (radiant characteristic) has more capacity than battery charged only with low voltage DC. The HV part of radiant make the charge hold longer just as what the HV do to capacitor. A battery is sort of bigger version of capacitor isn't it? At least some of my failed battery has become capacitor where it only store voltage but not current.

I think even if it is explainable with conventional physics, the methode to charge with both no current HV and low current LV is never been applied before with very simple trick by switching off coil current. I guess this is the reason for h wave. The spike make the charge to retain longer, the current force the battery to store usefull electricity.

[gotoluc]

It not fair. The radiant side outputs (At the diode) 96+- volts on the meter at .5 amp. So you would have to charge the caps at that same rate with DC. Or else one cap would have 200 + volt and the other would have 12.

The outcome of the test though is as expected on 2 separate caps charged then discharged through 2 relays on one switch. The DC one recharged to .13, the radiant charged to 12.47 in one minutes time.

Like I said not fair. You would need to step up the DC voltage, I can't do that to that level off the top of my head.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to explain to me

I feel I'm a fair individual and try to find fair ways to do experiments.

Sorry my test suggestion is causing you grief

Luc

[sucahyo]

Hi Matt,

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to explain to me

I think he means that achieving same voltage for both radiant and normal DC is hard. Even when we measure 1V on radiant output by limiting input current it may not be the actual spike voltage, at 96+V by analog metering the spike may exceed scope limit. Getting DC at 1000+V is hard too I guess.

[Inquorate]

Didn't find it within the parameters I set

Here's an experiment where the caps didn't spontaneously recharge..

More experiments to follow, using different capacitors and a perhaps a bedini charger; and higher voltage, bigger / smaller capacitors, etc.

YouTube - looking for spontaneous recharging of capacitors

Love and light

[gotoluc]

I think he means that achieving same voltage for both radiant and normal DC is hard. Even when we measure 1V on radiant output by limiting input current it may not be the actual spike voltage, at 96+V by analog metering the spike may exceed scope limit. Getting DC at 1000+V is hard too I guess.

Hi sucahyo,

thanks for trying the re-explain what Matt is trying to communicate. Unfortunately I still don't understand what this has to do with my suggested experiment. Why would inductive flyback spikes of 1,000 volt or more effect the result. If the capacitors charged by flyback reaches a charge of some 200 volts and the other set of capacitors of the same value are charged by a 200 volts source then they both have the same Joule energy

Anyways, I see Inquorate has understood my test suggestion.

Thanks Inquorate for taking the time to do this experiment and post the video of the results even though they don't show any gains yet

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

gotoluc@

I feel I'm a fair individual and try to find fair ways to do experiments

LOL, I apologize it wasn't intended to be personal comment. LOL.

I forget were not all American. I practice some bad grammar...

I meant to say the test was not a valid test. (Its not a fair assessment) It would be a good test if you could charge the caps with the same voltage in DC, to the same level as a radiant spike.
Both caps would have to be charged to 200 +- volts, and the current flowing in them would need to be about the same.
I don't have the abilty to do that.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Matt

[sucahyo]

Here's an experiment where the caps didn't spontaneously recharge..

Is that direct or trough AV plug at secondary?

Ho many times the radiantly charged capacitor cycled?

If the capacitors charged by flyback reaches a charge of some 200 volts and the other set of capacitors of the same value are charged by a 200 volts source then they both have the same Joule energy

I see. You just want to compare two capacitor with the same final standing voltage, then discharge it (Joule stored). I thought you want to charge capacitor with same voltage at same duration (Joule in). The later is harder to do.

[Inquorate]

Direct or avramenko plug

That's using the sec output; high frequency transmission of power through one wire to high speed diodes.

Results will probably be different with high voltage coil collapse.

The caps were only cycled about 20 times, and each cap only had 25 to 30 volts; more is likely necessary to condition them.

I just wanted to show how to make the experiment more than anything

Love and light

[gotoluc]

To everyone,

the way I understood this topic is, capacitors that have been conditioned (over many charge discharge cycles) with a Radiant source would recover to a higher voltage after a discharge then capacitors that had not been conditioned.

If this is so, then it does not matter which way you charge them (after they have been conditioned) as they should demonstrate what you are claiming (able to recover to a higher voltage after discharge). Just like John Bedini's battery tests where he uses a regular DC power supply once his battery is conditioned, you should be able to do the same, right?

If I'm not understanding then you can ignore me since it will be useless at this point.

Thank you all for your time and sharing.

Luc

[Inquorate]

Good point

To everyone,

the way I understood this topic is, capacitors that have been conditioned (over many charge discharge cycles) with a Radiant source would recover to a higher voltage after a discharge then capacitors that had not been conditioned.

If this is so, then it does not matter which way you charge them (after they have been conditioned) as they should demonstrate what you are claiming (able to recover to a higher voltage after discharge). Just like John Bedini's battery tests where he uses a regular DC power supply once his battery is conditioned, you should be able to do the same, right?

If I'm not understanding then you can ignore me since it will be useless at this point.

Thank you all for your time and sharing.

Luc

Good point Luc. I'll start conditioning one of my suntan caps with radiant tomorrow. The other I will leave alone for the final test, with normal dc on both caps.

Love and light

[Matthew Jones]

Unlike a battery, the effect does not seem to last.
If the cap is left alone after radiant charging then it will retain that property. If used with DC it seem to go back to a normal state. Slightly higher than off the shelf but not the same.

It may be the effect is temporary or the capacitor is easily formatted in one direction or the other. But more than likely it is a effect dictated by the fluid in the battery. It very well may hold residual charge for some period of time then run out.

When the subject came up in the other thread (I forget the name) they were convinced that the energy coming in was radiant. The suggestion I made was to try to use a capacitor plate for collection that had been exposed to radiant. Thinking this might improve the collection factor.
It may be that certian fluids in the capacitor are more opt to carry a residual charge. Some one might want to try oil caps versus, electrolyte.
Who knows.

Cheers
Matt