Spontaneous charging radiantly charged capacitor research group

[gotoluc]

YouTube - double checking conditioned capacitor charging experiment

One more coming soon, having internet connection issues

Another great demo Inquorate

Looks like the Radiantly conditioned cap charges to 100vdc in 23 seconds and the non conditioned cap took 1 minute 10 seconds to charge to the same 100vdc.

That is quite a significant difference and I would say it's definitely worth finding a way to use this effective and efficient capacitor charging effect.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gotoluc]

Spring back is the same; here's the experiment.

YouTube - dc vs coil collapse cap charge

Thanks for doing this test also Inquorate!

We now know where the advantage of conditioning caps are.

Interesting how this all turned out!

Now to find a way to use this to our advantage

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[DrStiffler]

Spring back is the same; here's the experiment.

YouTube - dc vs coil collapse cap charge

@Inquorate

So do you think this invalidates ( t=RC ) and do you feel that ( tc -> t charge ) and ( td -> t discharge ) maintain proportionality? If we do not invalidate ( t =RC ) then either R or C has changed. Normally electrolytics need reforming to some extent when left on the shelf or between usage. This is what normally happens when caps fail in equipment that has not been used for long periods of time. The sudden surge ON voltage blows the cap. In the old days we would form the caps by introduction of a forming voltage to recondition them if they had been dormant for a long period of time. Strangely enough this would normally increase the capacity and decrease the leakage or segment of R (internal R).

What you seem to be showing is a decrease in R or C. It would be interesting to do charge discharge curve into a known load resistance, this would be the acid test. The manual shorting is iffy at best to confirm this artifact.

Good work, although I remain with many questions on the outcome.

[Jbignes5]

Great findings.

One thing that I also would get stuck on is the energy we talk about in these kinds of studies. What can we get from this and other experiments in this area?
This energy weather channeled or pulled from the very material of the unit we are charging, changes the fundamental way that it works beyond it's specs. But only when using this same energy (Conditioning method).
As in batteries like the Bedini style it physically changes the plates and manifests deposits on each. Attempt to use it in a normal manner after "conditioning" and it will blow the charger or refuse the charge until it seems to renormalize.
Very interesting indeed. Through out your experiments have you investigated the internal components of a normal cap compaired to a "Conditioned" cap to see any changes that might be present?
If there are changes is there a way to analyze the changes like sending the changed material to a lab for analysis?

Just some questions that come to mind. Great experiments!

[Inquorate]

R, C, and T

Put in the light of the responses, the experiments I did seem more interesting now.

I'll do a discharge across a known resistance after charging to 100 volts with both charging techniques. The time taken should tell us more.

if they discharge in the same amount of time, the resistance to charging will have changed on the conditioned cap.

If not, the capacity will have changed.

Resistance change would be more interesting and useful.

[DrStiffler]

Put in the light of the responses, the experiments I did seem more interesting now.

I'll do a discharge across a known resistance after charging to 100 volts with both charging techniques. The time taken should tell us more.

if they discharge in the same amount of time, the resistance to charging will have changed on the conditioned cap.

If not, the capacity will have changed.

Resistance change would be more interesting and useful.

@Inquorate

It's never simple. Just doing the discharge is not good enough. You need to time both charge and discharge using a known resistance and you need to know the value of the capacitor in the beginning so that a comparison can be done with the cap before and after conditioning. Remember, t=RC, need it all. If you do the test in the same environment in a small window of time and the temperature does not change more than a few percent you do not need to include delta C/Temp. The delta C can be as much as 10-15% for a relatively small temperature.

[Inquorate]

Setback

I was just going to do the following experiment:

1a) Bedini charger charging a new unconditioned capacitor instead of a battery (check capacitance prior with meter), with a resistance over the terminals of the capacitor (check resistance with meter). Note temperature also.

1b) Turn on bedini charger. Note time to reach stable voltage, and what the voltage is. disconnect cap from bedini, note time cap takes to discharge to zero.

2) Now, remove resistor and replace with self oscillating relay, and reconnect the cap to bedini. Leave for at least 20min. This will condition the capacitor.

3) Repeat first steps 1a and 1b.

4) repeat steps 1 thru 3 with a dc (not coil collapse) source instead of the bedini, unconditioning instead of conditioning, etc.

This will tell us what is happening to the capacitor when it is conditioned.

Unfortunately, the capacitance section of both my meters is broken. And with a baby on the way I can't afford new meters.

So I'm going to ask someone else to step in and have a go..

Any takers?

Ps, use a second identical capacitor to figure out the appropriate resistor to show time of charge and discharge - has to be enough time, maybe ten seconds.

This took a while for me (200 uF; 5kOhm) and would mean the capacitor is getting conditioned. The bedini charger you want charging as fast as possible, my capacitor got to 40v, took 30sec to discharge.

Such a shame I can't complete the test, and sincerely hope someone takes over.

Love and light

[Inquorate]

In the absence of further experiments

Ok, so I can't check capacitance before and after..

Here's something people will find useful. I had hoped someone would like to know WHY it's useful, and WHAT is happening.. and put their hand up to do the above proposed experiment.

I still hope for a volunteer.

Until then..

YouTube - how to quickly condition a capacitor to accept a radiant charge more readily (4 times faster)

Love and light

[Matthew Jones]

I ordered some fresh capacitors this morning... and an LC meter.

Give me a couple days to get everything in.

Matt

[Inquorate]

Thankyou

I ordered some fresh capacitors this morning... and an LC meter.

Give me a couple days to get everything in.

Matt

Looking forward to your results. It would be nice if resistance to charge is what decreases, not a decrease in capacity.

Most interesting would be neither decreasing. Then rules are being broken.

Love and light

[gotoluc]

Ok, so I can't check capacitance before and after..

Here's something people will find useful. I had hoped someone would like to know WHY it's useful, and WHAT is happening.. and put their hand up to do the above proposed experiment.

I still hope for a volunteer.

Until then..

YouTube - how to quickly condition a capacitor to accept a radiant charge more readily (4 times faster)

Love and light

Hi Inquorate,

you can still do the the experiment if you wish as you don't need a capacitance meter. Dr. Stiffler and myself have mentioned above, all you need is a resistor. Just make sure to use the same resistor to discharge each cap test and you calculate the time of discharge. Obviously you will want to use a resistor of a high enough resistive value so you have at least 10 seconds or more before the cap discharges to be able to get accurate data. Also try to find a resistor of 5% or better if possible and the resistor should not overheat so you may want a 10 watt one. If we know the percentage and resistance value of your resistor and you clearly show the voltage meter during the load test then we can calculate the seconds it takes for the cap to reach zero volts by using the video time display. From that we can do real calculations. I think this is even a better way then using a capacitance meter.

About your last video. It's normal for your meter to be affected by the RF of the oscillating relay coil.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Matthew Jones]

GotoLuc
I got the test done like you describe with stop watch.
I used 2 1/2 farad stereo caps.

I forgot to record the first 2 tests but they seem about equal. I'm charging the batteries in my camera now so you guys can see the video and do the math.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

Alright I hope the test is close enough. I can do a couple more tomorrow. The video will be up in the morning.

The caps are Rockford Fosgate 1/2 farad 24 volt stereo caps.

First test is the conventional power.
When the test started the cap was at 19.8 volt
It took 1 minute 38.51 seconds to discharge to 1 volt in the cap through a 50 ohm 10 watt.

The second test was the radiant.
When the test started the cap was at 19.12 volt.
It took 1 minute 44.54 same resistor type.

I'll do more tomorrow so we can get an average.

The Non radiant cap recharges to 1.40 +- volt the radiant recharges to 3.50+- in about the same amount of time.

If ya'll are going to do some Math or something I would appreciate seeing the algorithm
Matt

YouTube - RadiantCap

[Inquorate]

discharge test

That's good news, seems the radiant charger accepts charge quicker, but has a higher capacity.

I'm set up to do the same test tonight on one capacitor, pre and post conditioning with regular dc and radiant.

The math is beyond me too.. Thankfully this is a group effort.

love and light

[gotoluc]

Hi Matt and Inquorate,

I forgot to mention that you need to label the caps A and B and also do some charge and discharge (through same load) using regular DC to charge the cap each time to the same and exact voltage. Measure and write down the discharge time and charge voltage. If you are doing it correctly you should be getting the same discharge time, however a different cap may have a different discharge time even though they are rated the same. This is why we need to do this first so we can calculate their real capacity values using this data. This is an important step. Don't forget to pre label your caps A and B so not to mix them up. Only once this step is done you can start to condition one of them A or B and then after start the load tests.

From what I have seen I think the most important tests will be to calculate the charge time of a conditioned cap compared to a non conditioned cap. However both need to be charged by the same Radiant charger and to the same voltage without any changes to the Radiant charger so to keep it all equal.

Please post your data of cap A and B

All the best in your experiments and thanks for taking the time to share.

Luc