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  • #31
    Some capacitance calculations for the Ark

    Hi guys- as an amateur capacitor-builder, woodworker, biblical scholar, and scientist I feel somewhat obliged to comment here. I should warn the readers that I am not very familiar with the works of Hutchinson or Haramein, although I am very conversant with those of Tesla.

    The power of the ark as a capacitor relies almost solely on the 'dielectric material' (described as '****tim wood' or 'acacia wood', in this case) and its thickness. I'll note right now that the ONE number we need to be certain, the "Dielectric Constant" of acacia wood (or a material made of acacia gum- but I'll get into that later...) seems to be impossible to find online. So I'll solve the problem for a range of likely DC's (2-6), and thicknesses (1/2"-1"). But we can make a series of educated guesses, and try to find a logical conclusion.

    For accurate specs on the ark, I referred to my own copy of the Tanakh as well as an analysis of some of the original Aramaic biblical texts at Encyclopaedia Biblica/Aramaic Versions-Asara - Wikisource . This text was scanned and OCR'd, and is therefore difficult to read, but is well worth it. The author uses language analysis tools to determine which of the biblical texts are 'most original', and which have been modified over time. First, the bad news- according to this analysis, the original Ark was plain acacia wood- the gilding (or perhaps just the description of the gilding) seems to have been a later addition by a subsequent author/editor.

    Now for the good news. (We'll set aside the entire concept of the 'lid', or "Mercy Seat' in this discussion). IF the Ark was covered with gold, inside and out, and IF there was a gap in that gold covering along the rim, then the Ark would function as a capacitor (an obsolete term for capacitor is 'condenser'), and we should be able to estimate its electrical characteristics. Specifically, the Ark would be the type of capacitor called a Leyden Jar (or "Leyden bottle").

    An earlier poster was asked if he'd ever built any large capacitors. I have- and they hold enough charge to kill a rhino.(some photos are at Welcome to Facebook | Facebook and at Welcome to Facebook | Facebook ), and I've also built "arks" (ornate wooden chests), so I feel qualified to comment here.

    One more bit of cheerful news-- the lid, or "mercy seat" is interesting in that the root-word for "mercy-seat" is "bitumen"-- or tar, a useful, flexible electrical insulating material (also used in the so-called "Bahgdad Batteries")- an interesting choice of words if accidental- but as I said before, I'm not discussing the 'lid' here.

    Now for the "assumptions". Lets say that a cubit is about 18". Lets assume that to hold a pair of stone tablets without breaking, that the Ark would be made of wood somewhere between 1/2" and 1" thick (for our calculations, knowing an approximate thickness is critical- even more critical to the operation of the device is that the thickness remain absolutely consistent throughout the material). Lumber from an acacia tree (a relatively scrawny desert tree) wouldn't be big enough to cut boards a cubit-and-a-half wide, so lets assume that smaller boards were glued (probably with hide-glue, casien glue, or acacia gum) and dowelled together to make panels- a common woodworking technique, even 3000 years ago.

    I can't find any specifics on the "Dielectric Constant" of acacia wood in particular, but I found a USDA document that says "wood" can range in values from 2 to 5, depending upon dryness. Resistivity can be thousands of megohms in very dry wood, so voltage bleedoff shouldn't be a big problem. I also couldn't find the "Dielectric Strength" of wood (or acacia), but paper has a rating of 200,000 volts per inch of thickness, so lets say acacia is good for 150KV/inch. (We're counting on the DRY middle-eastern climate A LOT, here...) I know that's a lot of assumptions, but despite Tesla's florid claim, the bible is sketchy on the details, and there aren't a lot of hard numbers on the electrical characteristics of 'natural materials', like acacia wood.

    Now lets run some numbers- We know our Leyden Jar (Ark) is electrically equivalent to two gold plates, each about 5000 square inches in surface area, separated by an acacia dielectric (with a DC of maybe-as-low-as 2, or maybe-as-high-as 5) that is between 1/2" and 1" thick.

    That means the (perfect-world) 'lousiest' capacitor we might construct would assume a Dielectric Constant of "2" for acacia, using 1/2" thick boards. It would have a rating of .0044mfd (microfarads), and a maximum voltage of 75,000 volts (75KV). This represents 12.375 joules of energy. (and is still probably generous. It assumes a great attention to detail on the part of Bezaleel, the original carpenter)

    Our (perfect-world) "Best Hopeful" case would assume a Dielectric Constant of "5" for acacia, using 1" thick boards. It would have a rating of .005619mfd (microfarads), and a maximum voltage of 150,000 volts (150KV). This represents 63.214 joules of energy. (perhaps even more generous, and again assumes the chest was manufactured to 'electronic tolerances', not "2000BC. furniture tolerances")

    Therefore, a simple wooden box, made of accurately thicknessed 1" boards, with a gold lining and covering (having a gap between them along the rim), which is 1.5 cubits by 1.5 cubits by 2.5 cubits, when properly charged (that's another story...) MIGHT have an energy capacity between 12 and 63 joules. (Note that I carried-out the decimal places so that others might check my math-- there is NO WAY our assumptions are close enough to merit that degree of accuracy). In terms of energy, 10-200 joules is in the "might kill you" range. Over 200 joules is in the "will almost certainly kill you" range. A Taser generates pulses (depending upon make and model) ranging between 1/3 and 2 joules per jolt. (interestingly, a .22cal rifle bullet has a muzzle-energy of 200 joules...)

    SO, IF it functioned as a capacitor (or "condenser", or "Leyden Jar") the Ark might indeed have had enough juice to kill the unwary, like poor Uzzah, who was trying to steady it after the oxen jostled it. It would most probably have enough 'juice' to knock you on your A-double-S.

    If you try to build a duplicate Ark out of plywood and aluminum foil (yes, it can be done), take a CLOSE look at the photos of my big leyden jar "Fat Albert", and keep the inside and outside layers shorted-out when not in use. ANY CAPACITOR THIS SIZE CAN KILL YOU. Start small- build a small, harmless 'film-can leyden jar' first- instructions are at Instructions for Making a Film Canister Leyden Jar . You can charge this little guy by waving it in front of your TV screen- no silk curtains or badger-fur covering needed-- you'll be able to see small sparks, and you won't end-up fried, like poor ole' Uzzah!

    As far as 'mankillers' go, although smaller than the Ark, "Fat Albert" uses a 5 gallon bucket made of HDPE a few hundredths of an inch thick, and at well over 200 joules is FAR more powerful than our theoretical Acacia-wood Ark-capacitor- the secret is that beautifully thin, consistent layer of HDPE the bucket is made of..

    But, there is another possibility- one that MIGHT account for a more high-powered Ark- perhaps up to 800 joules. Consider this: MAYBE the stone tablets were never carried in the ark (according to the text-analysis of the Aramaic, that passage may have been a later addition to the bible). Not needing to support their weight, the acacia wood could be even thinner making the entire unit more powerful than I calculated above. Or perhaps (and this is a stretch..) the "acacia" wasn't "acacia wood", but "acacia gum"- (an interesting substance exuded from the acacia tree consisting mostly of polysaccharides) dissolved in water, cast into thin even sheets, dried, assembled, and gilded. From what I know of the dielectric constants of polysaccharides, that could amount to a pretty serious capacitor- with a nice, consistent, uniform, homogeneous dielctric.

    In that case, perhaps the gilded-carrying-staves were NOT to spread the load of a heavy ark bearing stone tablets- they may have been intended to carefully suspend a FRAGILE ark made of cast-gum-arabic-panels and lightly gilded; a less-rugged Ark would certainly explain Uzzah's concern about the jostling, and the carefully constructed 'resting place' in the tabernacle- it would also store a LOT more energy. All of this, naturally, is total, gross, and sheer speculation on my part-- but if someone tests acacia wood, or acacia gum, and gets a really high Dielectric Constant, that may be key. For example, a delicate Ark made of 1/4" thick panels, and a dielectric material with a DC of 10 (camphor is 10, so acacia gum may be close) could store a whopping 800 joules. I might be able to believe that-- Acacia gum IS a fascinating natural substance- just read The Acacia Gum Arabinogalactan Fraction Is a Thin Oblate Ellipsoid: A New Model Based on Small-Angle Neutron Scattering and Ab Initio Calculation to see how unique it is! (pity they didn't test it for a Dielectric Constant!!)

    But be warned- I've found NO evidence of any culture ever casting acacia gum into sheets- if it was done, no mention of it can be found anywhere, so that's a really big assumption. For a really powerful Ark, though, we need some kind of dielectric material 'leap' like this.

    None of this explains the warning in Joshua 3, telling the sons of Israel to stay a kilometer away, however. THAT is an entirely different kind of power-- ionizing radiation of some kind, from UV to gamma-ray, take your pick... (maybe that's the function of the lid, or 'mercy seat' and cheribum, and the Leyden-Jar-Ark is just the 'feed voltage'--lasers and MRI machines are fired with big capacitors- but you're still only working with a one-shot instantaneous discharge of less than 800 joules even in the most starry-eyed best-case analysis....)

    I don't have the ability to measure the DC of acacia gum, but it would be easy to dissolve some in water, and try to cast a small panel with it. That way you could determine if building an ark of the stuff is even possible. (does anyone out there have an ounce-or-so of "gum arabic"? try this for us!) By the way, gilding an acacia-gum-panel Ark would be a cinch-- acacia gum (gum arabic) is the stuff they use for glue in gilding!

    My undying thanks and a gold star goes out to anyone who can get us solid numbers on the dielectric constants for acacia wood, and solid, dry, acacia gum.

    I hope this helps.... And PLEASE-- if you have the capacity to check my math, CHECK IT! I ran these numbers at 2AM, so ymmv....

    -bob

    for those interested, two useful online calculators for homemade capacitors are Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator and Tesla Coils - Capacitance Calculator

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    • #32
      oops-- looks like the "autocensor" got me!

      It looks like some auto-censoring software assumed I was saying a naughty word in the second paragraph, above, as the text was replaced with asterisks. Another, equally acceptable (and perhaps less-likely to trigger the autocensor) transliteration of the Hebrew is "chittim-wood".

      -bob

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      • #33
        Thank you for that Bob! Excellent, excellent, excellent!

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        • #34
          Urim and Thummim

          Originally posted by morpher44 View Post
          Ephod:
          Important to wear one near the Ark.
          Saul's daughter didn't think it necessary and
          she had her fertility taken.

          Breastplate:
          Yup .. wise to wear that too.
          I had never heard of the terms:
          Urim and Thummim until I was reading through
          Robert Doherty's "Area 51" series of books. Great read by the way.

          Urim and Thummim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          These were possibly jewels, tablets, special parchment
          (with the Tetragrammaton -- hey Nassim!!!)
          or something that would emit light & letters -- and used
          inside the breast plate -- slide into a slot.
          They possibly were used for divination. Questions would be asked ...
          and letters would appear from them and beam onto the surrounding
          walls.

          Urum and Thummin may mean innocents vs. guilt --
          or YIN and YANG, positive/negative, as above so below
          or any other number of duality concepts.

          They appear to be important technology associated with this mystery.
          ...
          Exo 28:9 And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel: Exo 28:10 Six of their names on one stone, and the other six names of the rest on the other stone, according to their birth. Exo 28:11 With the work of an engraver in stone, like the engravings of a signet, shalt thou engrave the two stones with the names of the children of Israel: thou shalt make them to be set in settings of gold.
          Last edited by morpher44; 01-06-2010, 06:30 AM.

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          • #35
            my curiosity got the better of me.....

            I have a little puddle of gum arabic drying in a tinfoil tray on one of my radiators...... structural analysis forthcoming.....

            -bob

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            • #36
              Gum Arabic

              Hi Bob:

              While the results of your experiment may be interesting I believe if the Hebrews used glue it would have been hide glue. That's what the Egyptians used and the Hebrews would have known that and how to make and use it.

              But according to Smith's the Acacia grows to 3 or 4 ft. in diameter;

              ****tah tree, ****tim - Smith's Bible Dictionary on StudyLight.org I have seen them in Kenya over 24" in diameter. Plenty wide to make the Ark without glue or dowel pins.

              Al
              Antiquer

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              • #37
                The "Pillar of Fire" that led the way for Moses and the Isrealites was most likely an active volcano.

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                • #38
                  acacia gum panels? looks unlikely

                  Well, The gum arabic dried. It looks like a little puddle of clear glass. It's VERY brittle-- about as strong (weak) as a potato-chip of the same thickness. There may be other 'manufacturing techniques' that would result in a stronger material, but in the abcense of any evidence of that, I'm thinking we can rule out 'acacia gum' as the material of which the Ark was constructed. (We do know that the people of that time used acacia gum as a binder in paints and cosmetics, and for fused-glass objects, but I am aware of no evidence of 'sheetsof the gum' being made or used).

                  I do agree that if glue was used, it was probably hide-glue. An Ark made of solid boards WOULD be better from an electrical point-of-view than one of jointed boards. But even though some acacia trees grow big enough to allow cutting panels that are 27" x 45" (or thereabouts, depending upon whose "cubit" you use), from a furniture-making perspective, that's just impractical. Unless it's plywood, a 27" wide board is going to curl-up like a potato-chip as it dries.

                  As a woodworker, I'm almost certain the ark would have been made of smaller boards- selected for straightness of grain. If the end-view of a single board looks like it has an 'upward' cup, an adjacent board having a 'downward' cup is selected. The panel-maker alternates the boards in this manner to assure stability. Perhaps my dismissal of the acacia as a 'scrawny desert tree' was a bit misleading-- its really the practical woodworking aspects of the project that make me believe jointed panels were probably used.

                  And I still believe that the gold-covering was adhered to the acacia-wood with gum-arabic- that was, and still is, common practice. I'm wondering about the DC of the acacia-gum layer-- the stuff looks and feels like hard plastic. Maybe a thick layer of acacia gum, between the gold and the acacia-wood would have increased the breakdown voltage of the wood- a higher voltage with the same capacity would store correspondingly more energy.

                  I have a friend with a 'megger' (meg-ohmmeter) used for testing the values of insulators. I'll give him a piece of the material to test. It would still be really nice to get a dielectric constant (that's how we old-timers were taught-- you young kids probably call it 'relative permitivity') for the acaia gum material.

                  Thanks to all for the kind comments!

                  -bob

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                  • #39
                    Whoops-- I had a couple of bad links in my first post-

                    Sorry, guys-- I just realized I posted a bad link to the photos of "Fat Albert", the 5-gallon bucket capacitor, and the little film-can capacitor. The correct links to the photos are: Robert Audlee's Photos - Leyden Jars...... | Facebook
                    and
                    Robert Audlee's Photos - Fat Albert on stand | Facebook

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                    • #40
                      Que:

                      The "Pillar of Fire" that led the way for Moses and the Isrealites was most likely an active volcano
                      Not possible. Volcanoes don't move around.

                      Al
                      Antiquer

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi Bob;

                        I don't know where you got your info. that gold leaf is applied with gum arabic, but it is erroneous. Gold leaf has always been done by 2 basic processes, either water gilding or oil gilding. Water gilding is not water-proof, so oil gilding was probably the process used on the Ark. It uses some type of varnish to adhere the leaf to the sealed wood, although some authorities believe the ancient Egyptians used human blood in some cases or hide glue mixed with clay in others.

                        A big problem which no one has addressed is how cured was the acacia wood? It doesn't appear it was air-dried very long, so shrinkage could have been a problem leading to splits; a real problem on a gilded piece. While I have seen 200-400 year old European dowry chests the approximate size of the Ark with no splits, they were made of well seasoned oak by master craftsmen who dove-tailed the corners together using hide glue.

                        I think the best solution to the problem is the sides and ends were built in panels, as you mentioned, using tongue and groove techniques. If the whole panel was gilded before assembly (including the tongue) then they could "float" inside the frame and shrink as needed. A varnish or hide glue would remain flexible enough to allow a thin sheet of gold leaf (they knew how to pound it out to 1/1600") to compress w/o wrinkling, at least not for many years.

                        Al
                        Antiquer

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Very possible. A simple search of "Pillar of Fire" and "Volcano" will give you many people and scientists that believe that a volcano lit up the night for them to follow it's light during the night, and the clouds or smoke came from the volcano which led them during the day.

                          It is a very reasonable explanation that anyone can easily understand.

                          It's true that volcanoes don't move around, but the people following the distant fire from the volcano can sure see it from possibly hundreds of miles away in a flat desert at night, and could see the clouds/smoke during the day from the same distance. A perfect guide!
                          Last edited by Que; 01-09-2010, 06:29 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Volcano?

                            Hi Que;

                            It is a very reasonable explanation that anyone can easily understand.
                            So this volcano erupted continuosly for 40 years and then went out as soon as the Hebrews reached the promised land, and the wind never shifted and blew the smoke away from them? Ridiculous.

                            Also, they did not travel in a straight line. See Ex. 13:17-18 and 21-22. They went south out of Egypt, took a left across the Red Sea to Mt Sinai, then left again back north to Canaan.

                            Further, Ex. 14:19 says "...and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face and stood behind them" and 14:20 says "and it (the cloud/pillar of fire) came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud of darkness to them (the Egyptians), but it gave light by night to these (the Israelites), so that the one came not near the other all the night.

                            Vs. 24 "...in the morning watch the Lord looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud ...".

                            Volcanos don't move around.

                            Al
                            Antiquer

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              ark construction..

                              Antiquer, you've raised some very good points. Your reference to 'frame and panel' construction is especially important. Most artist's depictions of the Ark, those wedding-chests you've seen, your home entertainment-center-- indeed, almost ALL boxlike structures made by trained cabinetmakers use "frame-and-panel" construction.

                              You also described the reason for that as well-- as the wood panels shrink and swell, they are free to move within the frame. Frame and panel construction is the time-tested 'best way' to make a box. Unfortunately, it is one of the worst ways to make a boxlike capacitor.

                              We are clearly confronted with a dillemma here- The best way to build a carrying-box (an Ark) is SUBSTANTIALLY different from the best way to build a capacitor (in the shape of the biblically-described Ark). If I was asked (as a cabinetmaker) to build a carrying-case based on the biblical dimensions, I'd use jointed (T&G, dowelled, etc) panels laid-into grooved frames- (perhaps even dadoed frames, with the panels held in with molding, to allow for easy panel replacement). The frame (or "carcass" in cabinetmaker's lingo) would be able to stand on its own. The panels would "float" in the frames, and perhaps against each other. Depending on whether there were crosspieces in the frame, or not, I'd probably use 3/4"-1" boards for the panels- at least on the bottom, to bear the load of the stone tablets. The whole shebang (not including staves, contents, or gold leaf) could weigh as much as 140lbs.

                              Now I put on my 'electronic-component-designer hat', and I build a CAPACITOR (in the shape of the biblically-described Ark). First, I'd want to use the thinnest wood I possible could (say 1/4"-1/2" which means those stone tablets better be pretty small!- or a later biblical editorial addition). Secondly, I'd need that thickness to be absolutely consistent throughout the entire area of the box-- which means I can't use a frame (it would require added thickness). All the panels would need to be edge-joined and glued-together, and to each other in a single rigid structure. The thickness of the gilding doesn't matter-- so the 1/1600th" you cited would be perfectly adequete. It (exclusive of staves and gilding) might weigh as little as 35 lbs.

                              Although the biblical descriptions, dimensions and materials are the same, we are talking about two completely different objects here. The REAL issue is how much "slop" we're willing to accept, under the constraints of the biblical description, between ordinary furniture construction practices, and the actual construction of the device (which was, according to the Bible, under the direct supervision of YHVH ("under the shadow of YHVH"). If it was just an ordinary box, why did YHVH need to supervise? I'm saying that, OK, we need to STREEEETCH quite a bit to believe that the Ark could have functioned as a capacitor-- and I think you're saying the same thing.

                              That being said, if I were to build a large, wooden, boxlike capacitor, and a hundred years from now, my great-great-grandson decided to write down the story, as passed-down to him, its likely he'd get most of the specific construction details wrong.

                              A few other points-

                              1- You're right, volcanos don't move (I've been to several. Some wiggle, none move). And after walking towards one for decades, I'm pretty sure Moses would have found it. It is likely Moses was using a modification of a standard Egyptian military tactic here (fire and smoke-signals to guide the troops- a reasonable way to marshall two million people on an organized journey through a desert).
                              2- Acacia gum was used as a binder in gold leafing and pigments in that time, from Turkey to Egypt. Rabbit-hide glue was most commonly used for gilding. I'm not sure what YHVH specified, but if he was building a capacitor, he would have selected something with a high breakdown voltage and high DC.
                              3- I'm also unsure what state the wood was dried to before assembly, but I can take a guess at its moisture-content after 40 years in the desert- pretty-darned-LOW!!
                              4- You'd need to gild the ark AFTER assembly. Gilding the tongues or grooves would result in a short through the dielectric material, negating the Ark's use as a capacitor.

                              So really, the answer to the question- was the Ark a capacitor of any USEFUL measure is a big fat-- "maybe". You have to make some 'stretches' (not totally beyond the realm of belief, but that's a matter of opinion). And that's the point of my calculations. IF you think that YHWH's specific instructions and supervisory comments may have been FAR more detailed than we are told in the bible-- AND that those instructions were substantially different from the ORDINARY methods used at the time for box-construction, then it MAY BE possible to construct a capacitor within the constraints laid out in the bible-- 27"x27"x45", open-topped (seperate lid), made of acacia-wood, and covered with gold inside and out.

                              So, a furniture-built-Ark is not much of a capacitor, if at all. But we already knew that. Its the natural conclusion of thousands of years of 'conventional wisdom', and religious faith. The Ark's power came from God.

                              ...But the point of this discussion is to wonder if a custom Ark, designed by YHVH with some unusual construction techniques, not described in the Bible (hey, it's not "The Journal of Woodworking", after all- how much detail do you expect?) COULD be a capacitor. Remember, that the original Jewish Bible wasn't finalized (by "The Men of The Great Assembly") until sometime between 200-400BCE, depending on who you believe. We're talking 800-1200 years of oral history before this stuff was written down canonically. That leaves room for a LOT of missing, miscopied or misremembered information. Hell, maybe the details were left-out purposefully-- why would the Israelites want to leave a written recipe for such a seemingly powerful weapon?

                              Another thought comes to mind-- Antiquer, I'm guessing your knowlege of cabinetry has something to do with your user-name -- and I'm an amateur woodworker. But most people (now, as well as 2000 years ago) look at a wooden box, and they see..... a wooden box. They have no thought as to the construction techniques- frames, panels, dadoes, rabbets, tongues, grooves, fingers, or dovetails (all of which were used in ancient Egypt)-- they just see..... a wooden box. In this case a gilded wooden box. The vast majority of the Israelites, including the biblical author (assuming Bezaleel didn't write it!) who saw the Ark wouldn't even have a reason to notice unusual joinery. If they weren't Levites, they'd have no idea of how much the Ark weighed. So the limited description we have makes sense. It was never intended to be a set of "build-your-own-Ark" instructions. It was just a description of an object, by a person with no special skills or training in the building of such objects.

                              So, I stand my ground firmly and say to you again- MAYBE, dammit!

                              Last edited by ridethelight; 01-08-2010, 10:05 PM. Reason: fixed typos

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                              • #45
                                The Ark of the Coventant held special manipulative material, when positioned properly excitation occurred.
                                Last edited by Que; 01-09-2010, 09:05 PM.

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