Pulse charging Batteries - Conditioning & C.O.P relationship

[Aaron]

distinctions

You're talking about high frequency discharge. I'm talking about a single
discharge by screwing one point closer to the other. With high frequency, I
meant charging a cap - not discharging at high frequency.

Although, discharging a pos and neg charged cap at high frequency to see if
there is a difference would be yet another thing to be compared.

Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that the spark discharges are a
different color. Bulbs lit from negative charge can be a little more noticeably
whiter and brighter. And a battery charged with negative cannot power
inductive loads as well as positively charged batteries but a negatively
charged battery can power resistive loads better than a positively charged
battery.

I believe these are differences that conventional explanations cannot
touch.

[sucahyo]

My 3 battery sample has just showed the opposite in the long run. Effects, are only temporary and only last as long as batteries are continue to be pulsed charged.

Convert your bedini charger to more powerful one. Or if you intend to place it on a car, make it self pulsing. Who knows maybe you can improve it to self charging one day.

Just curious. How many hour can your charger increase voltage of big battery?

I have completely depleted 75Ah battery because of mistakes. It measured only 8.5 volts, car won't start. With my modified JT I can increase it to 9.8V in 12 hours (9.5 at three hour) and unable to increase more maybe because from 1 Amp adapter that also power a computer fan. After direct connecting the battery to the adapter (now without computer fan too cool the coil) the voltage raised to 12.6 after 12 hours, and car can start.

My lesson is I have to upscale my charger if I want to charge a car starter battery.

The Nicd was crystallized at 1.23v. I could recharge it to around 1.28v and it would light a jtc for 30 minutes, and always stopped at 1.23v.

That is very low voltage. The standing voltage of my nicad is 1.3V, where it can stay at 1.36V one hour after charged with my modified JT.



About capturing the "BEMF", if you only utilize it with one diode you are wasting half the recovery energy, since I think the energy generated after coil current is turned off is AC. From Glen experiment:

[Sephiroth]

Where did you find this image?

It doesn't look like AC... it looks like the resonance across the battery terminals after a spike.

[baroutologos]

@Aaron,

Can you point out a setup, that the spark-discharge is different than a normal one at same nominal volts, yet it does not entails the element of high frequency?

Regarding the bulbs
.......
High frequency currents do tend to bring different incadescence to bulb filaments. They actually tend to go also whitish, due to several things combined as increased filament heat and rarefied gas action upon filament.

Tesla in his notes repeteadly have mentioned those observations. Not mine ideas, but i have seen that also. And i have personally observed that above certain frequency or current strength, bulb emitted light tend to become like a bluish flame.

EDIT: Actually, Eric Dollard in one Borderland Science videos, has demonstrated some similar bulb action when connected to the bottom of his pancake Tesla coil (with the "weird" copper strip repulsion)

Regarding the batteries issue,
...
I am gonna perform a simple experiment. i have two identical batteries. One i am gonna pulse charged it with my SSG till full (actually i am cycling it as we speak), and the second being "hot charged" and i am gonna connect it to my PMDC motor freewheeling consuming some 0.8amps (hence inductive load). I am going to notice if there is any appreciable differerence at duration times.

[Aaron]

inductive resistor mosfet circuit

Where did you find this image?

It doesn't look like AC... it looks like the resonance across the battery terminals after a spike.

That is a scope shot from Glen from the Textronix 3054C DSO.
One of them is the battery sending a pulse and receiving the recharging
pulse backwards through the mosfet. It is the inductive resistor heating circuit.

[Aaron]

pic

Can you point out a setup, that the spark-discharge is different than a normal one at same nominal volts, yet it does not entails the element of high frequency?
...
I am gonna perform a simple experiment.

The only pic I can think of online is where John is shorting a cap and you
see the spark fly and the color is different than normal. He isn't showing
the sparks of shorting the cap when charged normally to see the difference.

Energy from the Vacuum Science Series

90% to the bottom of the page, there is a pic of John shorting a cap. I
don't think that picture does it justice. That pic looks more greenish
color. I think it is less red/orange from a regular short.

Good luck with your experiment!

[baroutologos]

Thanks Aaron for the good luck wish.

BTW

Simple setup suggestion for eveluating "radiant" spark-discharge potential difference
.........

If we want to investigate Bedini's cap discharge filled with "radiant" and if it tents to jump air at lesser voltage pressure applied (hence suggesting different nature of electricity) than a normally "hot" filled capacitor we can proceed as following.

First the cap filled via a high-voltage transformer with FWBR (to avoid oscillations) and discharge it at say 300 volts (0.1 mm).

Then same cap to be filled till that level by the diode of an SSG and applying the analysing spark-gap to see if there is any increase at spark length.
Easy experiment but for my SSG this will be difficult since 300volts tend to be my transistors uptop limit. Problem may be tackled by applying a varistor of 300v i guess. Also an Oscope (that i do not possess) will be very very handy for monitoring discharge voltage threshold.

ps: When i am refering to "radiant" in quotes i am not sarcastic. Just cannot accept a term not proven with simple means.

[jeanna]

Foreword: I have searched this forum and failed to locate any specific thread on this topic alone. Much of it is incorporated in SSG thread. By the way i feel it is an important (the most important?) aspect of utilizing the impulsive "spike" technology by the battery use.
....
Anyone with a mediocre experience (As me) in the field of Bedini technology or others dealing with the impulsive state of electricity, can finally understand that at best their machines, if working properly, output pulses of electricity either of higher or lower frequency / voltage.

...

The common place at utilizing those impulses is the use of capacitor or even a battery as Bedini suggests.
Refraining from further "theory" i urge anyone willing to report their own experience and data (if handy), of how the COP of his/her machine increases/stays the same/decreases by repeated cycling of the batteries used i.e. "conditioning process".

Different batteries chemistries, sizes, C rates of charging/discharging, output current going to battery you name what, are to be considered here.

Feel free to add anything you think is relevant.

Baroutologos

I must say here the only 'machine' I have been using beyond a few stabs at the no bearing bedini, is the jtc with secondary.
There are minimissimum amps and pretty high voltage spikes given the input. The output is generally 100 times the input but sometimes as high as 1600 times.
So, using these spikes through a bridge is giving results in restoring my one sample Nicd battery and this is encouraging enough to continue.

@aaron,
I am still confused about what a negative spike is, especially if my secondary is wound to give spikes in only one direction.

I think with homemade ones, most people are just not pushing their
batteries hard enough.

aaron

This is very possible.
My gonzo battery stayed in a very narrow range and only began to improve both charging and working after I had drained it deeply and charged it for 20 hours.
After that I saw some changes. And, when the changes began they moved fast.

@Skywatcher

using flyback diode method. It was working fine, i was getting maybe 60-70% capacity then i accidentally left them to discharge to long in discharge cycle and they were almost at 0 volts again, however when disconnecting load they shot up quickly past 3 volts and settled around 3.68 volts, well they wont go below that voltage, they keep climbing quickly back up to about 3.7 volts, i've been pulse lighting multiple led's,

This is the kind of thing that helped me though I needed to do more than a straight short.

Even though mine have full capacity, it just doesn't stick very long, im still cycling them in hopes they will hold charge longer, otherwise i think this battery can still be used in the phone.

Tyson,
Have you repeated this cycling 20 times?
In one of bedini's videos he sais you don't expect it to work until 20 to 30 cycles, and only after that will you get not just as good a recharge, but much better.
Mine turned around and held a charge beginning the 9th cycle.

Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
The Nicd was crystallized at 1.23v. I could recharge it to around 1.28v and it would light a jtc for 30 minutes, and always stopped at 1.23v.

That is very low voltage. The standing voltage of my nicad is 1.3V, where it can stay at 1.36V one hour after charged with my modified JT.
sucahyo

Yes, and this is why I mentioned it. It never went below 1.23v nor could it charge above 1.28v. Before the reconditioning, it lit a jt lamp for 30 minutes or less.
Now after 18 cycles actually after 12 or so, it has lit a jtc for over 2 hours.
It is still recovering from that deep short 3 cycles ago, but coming back fast.

I think the most important part of this was to get it to drain deeply enough. I got it to collect charge to 1.36v in the beginning but until it could discharge below 1v it did not really improve.

[sucahyo]

90% to the bottom of the page, there is a pic of John shorting a cap. I don't think that picture does it justice. That pic looks more greenish color. I think it is less red/orange from a regular short.

I recently upgrade my radiant recovery component and get greener color too:

YouTube - Green spark of radiant recovery output

The radiant recovery circuit output is 210v connected to primary coil.

[sucahyo]

I think the most important part of this was to get it to drain deeply enough. I got it to collect charge to 1.36v in the beginning but until it could discharge below 1v it did not really improve.

Don't over discharge. It reduce the maximum limit. However, it still can be recovered after few months of weekly charging on my batteries. My batteries gradually increase the max charged voltage from 1.36V to 1.4V. Make sure that the output voltage and current is high enough.

Currenty with 12V 500mA input my circuit charge 12.5V battery at 13.4V. Detected output current is 120mA, 70mA when charging the battery.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi jeanna.

Tyson,
Have you repeated this cycling 20 times?
In one of bedini's videos he sais you don't expect it to work until 20 to 30 cycles, and only after that will you get not just as good a recharge, but much better.
Mine turned around and held a charge beginning the 9th cycle.

I cycled it 12 times, though more cycles may or may not have benefited the cordless phone battery based on the results. It is possible some damage like drying up from heat or some other damage occurred, because it does have full capacity which says to me that it has done a good job decrystalizing since i discharged at C1.5 for cycles. Hope that helps.
peace love light
Tyson
Edit: also, they are now back in use on the cordless phone, so will see how they work out. anyone know what kind of power is drawn from the batteries in the cordless phone.

[nvisser]

@all
If you take the spikes and put it into a cap and then apply that cap to
a battery, it is turned from negative to positive. The spikes by themselves
are negative.
And in another example, if you charge a cap with positive or you charge
it with high frequency negative - in a way, they're both positive, but they
are not the same. The negative charged one gives a whiter spark, can
jump a larger gap at the same voltage compared to the positive charged
cap. I don't know if the cap matters or not but I've seen a visible difference
with the sparks from the caps, etc...
.

Aaron
Do you think conditioning a battery with radiant charged pulsing caps will give the same conditioning results as when charging the battery straight with the spikes.

[Aaron]

@nvisser

Nvisser,

So for example charge cap with a "kicker coil" and then discharge that cap
into a battery. Yes I think so.

But I think the best way is to calculate the capacitance of the cap so that
it will charge to full voltage on one single inductive spike from the coil. This
is Tesla's method of conversion. It would of course be small capacitance.
I know there is probably formulas for this but my non-EE way would be to
keep reducing capacitance until I can get the highest possible voltage on
one single spike.

But if the result is the same, might as well charge the batt straight with the
spike unless there is something else added by charging the cap.

Anyway, one single inductive spike to charge the entire cap would be
sticking to the method of conversion.

One thing I found with some caps is that charging with high voltage, like
from ignition coils is that it causes them to have some kind of electret
effect - this definitely happens. I've had some caps spring back up close
to 100 volts after shorting. That cap was an AC cap from a microwave at
about 0.001uf and I used it as a DC cap. It maintained it's polarity.

[Guruji]

Charging

Hi guys these last days I pulsed my battery bank with a small solar panel plus another normal charge 13w panel. The thing is that my bank is not holding charge for long. I was reading that charging with spikes and use them at the same time destroys the batts. Is this true?
Thanks

[theremart]

Destroying batteries?

Hi guys these last days I pulsed my battery bank with a small solar panel plus another normal charge 13w panel. The thing is that my bank is not holding charge for long. I was reading that charging with spikes and use them at the same time destroys the batts. Is this true?
Thanks

The major danger is using convention charge on batteries and supplying amps to the batteries over and above when they are fully charged. I have killed batteries on my solar charger in this way .

But if you think about it, our cars have batteries which give charge and also get charge at the same time.

There are already DC pulse chargers on the market on charge controllers that pulse charge batteries. The main thing to observer both in the battery in our car and in the solar controllers they are both regulated.

When you build something from scratch you don't have these nice built in features, to protect the batteries from over charging.

The safe way to go is to charge the battery as John B. recommends at the C-20 rate, we used to call it trickle charging on conventional chargers, slowly add charge till the battery climbs to it top charge. This puts less stress on the battery.


I also use solar, I first charge a battery with a trickle charge, then I use this charged battery to pulse charge and condition other batteries. I have found this working well for me.

Cheers!