Donald L Smith

[boguslaw]

Good ideas here!

[gigo]

Nice circuit Dragon.

I found an old pdf file with different types of windings using toroidal forms. Here's an exerpt that might be useful in tapping energy from your circuit without losing resonance.

"1. The output winding practically does not influence the primary winding and consequently, when the primary current is brought into resonance and a specified (even large) current is created in it, the load on the secondary winding will not “spoil” the resonance in the primary winding."

It's on page 2 and uses 2 toroidal rings with "out of the box" windings"
Hope it helps. Great thread by the way!

[mlurye]

I was playing with device and just little thing I noticed. If you'll move cap on other side of spark gap it's possible to light up a 7W 110V light bulb

[baroutologos]

From practical perspective, there has to be a feedback between secondary and primary in order for automatic resonance to occur, as the circuit self-tunes that way.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but without any feedback, which is what baroutologos suggests if I understand it right, there can not be any automatic resonance or self-tuning.

What exactly is automatic resonance or self tuning?

As i undesratnd it, Resonance of primary LC is defined by its components. period. nothing on the other side can alter that. Neither voltage nor load. Inductunce is fixed, capacitance is fixed so frequency is fixed. Only the Q alters via L1-L2 interaction.

[dragon]

Nice circuit Dragon.

I found an old pdf file with different types of windings using toroidal forms. Here's an exerpt that might be useful in tapping energy from your circuit without losing resonance.

"1. The output winding practically does not influence the primary winding and consequently, when the primary current is brought into resonance and a specified (even large) current is created in it, the load on the secondary winding will not ?spoil? the resonance in the primary winding."

It's on page 2 and uses 2 toroidal rings with "out of the box" windings"
Hope it helps. Great thread by the way!

Thanks for sharing that pdf gigo, I hadn't seen that one before. I have worked with shorted copper wire through torroids in several experiments. One was a simple Joule thief arrangement, 3 of them identical. You could power 1 of them and the other two would run from the first. As long as the copper wire was shorted the energy is transfered via the A field of the torroid. Interesting stuff.
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[Altair]

Hi amigo,
I don't think you can have a self-tuning or self-adjusting resonating LC bank.
Anything you will add to the circuit will just reduce the Q of the system.
As has been mentionned, the values of the components are fixed and that's it.
You can only make a (or many) receiving LC bank, tuned to the same exact frequency as the first one, and then receive induced energy through the air.

However, this asks for very high stability from the tuned banks so they don't detune with changes in temperature, and always are at their peak efficiency.
This is the hardest part I think.

[gotoluc]

Here is a circuit that manipulates both voltage and current. At resonance it does some interesting things. Even though it appears to be an over unity senario it really isn't.

It has an input of 12 volts that is going through a series and parallel LC, both utilize the same capacitor. Since the series circuit enhances the voltage and the parallel circuit recycles current you get a combination of both worlds. With a small input of 46 ma you can create a 2.85 amp circulation in the tank with 465 volts. 12 volt at 46ma input ( .55 watt ) and a circulating power of over 1200 watts. Any attempt to "tap the tank" results in loss of resonance.

Its not overunity because the amperage in the tank was put in at the moment you turned on the system and it simply circulates, the voltage is raised based on the component values when brought to resonance and requires very little input to keep it going because it's recycling existing energy.

So even though it displays an overunity like effect, it in fact isn't. That's not to say you couldn't draw from the system a portion of that energy cycling within the tank... possibly using Armagdn03 theories on excentric transformers, or another means. I have yet to find a solution that doesn't interfere with it's normal resonant operation, if in fact it can be tapped at all.

If we don't know what we're looking for, how can we find it?

Hi Dragon,

thanks for posting this circuit. I built and tested it and I'm not getting the resonance at 50KHz.

I used a IRF640 to switch and wound both coils on the same ferrite toroid and each measure about 25uH (basically 3 turns each coil) BTW I never thought such a short length of wire and 3 turns would resonate at this low of a frequency

I adjusted duty cycle to 17% to get the amp draw at 46ma at 50KHz.

I even added a variable air cap to see if it would help tune but maximum is 102v PP

Do you see a problem in my setup

Thanks

Luc

[dragon]

Hi Dragon,

thanks for posting this circuit. I built and tested it and I'm not getting the resonance at 50KHz.

I used a IRF640 to switch and wound both coils on the same ferrite toroid and each measure about 25uH (basically 3 turns each coil) BTW I never thought such a short length of wire and 3 turns would resonate at this low of a frequency

I adjusted duty cycle to 17% to get the amp draw at 46ma at 50KHz.

I even added a variable air cap to see if it would help tune but maximum is 102v PP

Do you see a problem in my setup

Thanks

Luc

In the testing I did with the circuit the coils were air core and not inductively coupled. If I remember correctly, I was driving the transistor with a FG using a square wave with a 50% duty cycle. The frequency may vary a bit based on the components inherent +or- % of accuracy.

I used various inductances and capacitances at different frequencies and the all seemed to work reasonably well with varying results. As long as the inductors are matched and brought to resonance the effects became noticable.

I worked on it 5-6 months ago and in my frustration of not finding a solution to tapping it I moved on to other projects. Interesting little creature....
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Cold case forums

[amigo]

Today I thought to play a bit with something practical. Here's a setup, basically the primary stage of DS table top device:



I can control the input voltage into the NST via a DC power supply so it goes from 0 to 12V.

The earth ground is a wire going to the water pipe in the bathroom, not a perfect solution but best I have (on the 15th floor )

Primary L1 is just several turns of solid copper wire, not sure what gauge, maybe 16 or 18, it is not important. The photo should be self-explanatory.

In any case, the black probe is from my TekScope and the black coiled cable underneath the coil is a pickup for my spectrum analyzer.

So, the bottom line is this. Scope probe inside the coil picks up ~37kHz oscillations and shows about 44Vpp (somewhat) sine wave. There's no arcing on the spark arrestor, and there couldn't be at this low voltage anyway as it is rated 350VDC.

My hand-held frequency meter picks up a field of about 3.5-4ft diameter at ~37kHz which I think is from the NST and not the coil.

Spectrum Analyzer shows nothing but perhaps the frequency is so low (37kHz) that it does not cover that range. Alas, there are no harmonic either, if the primary circuit oscillator really does work.

Scope on the diode output alone shows ~80Vrms and maybe 260Vpp at 37kHz.

I am not sure how this circuit in the current configuration can do anything in the kV range, either on the primary or the secondary side.

Your comments are much welcome.

[amigo]

@baroutologos and Altair,

You are right, in the configuration that DS has there can not be any self-tuning. I kept thinking about JT and SEC Exciter circuits which have a transistor and a feedback ability so they can self-tune to a resonant frequency, but that's a totally different beast.

[dragon]

Today I thought to play a bit with something practical. Here's a setup, basically the primary stage of DS table top device:



I can control the input voltage into the NST via a DC power supply so it goes from 0 to 12V.

The earth ground is a wire going to the water pipe in the bathroom, not a perfect solution but best I have (on the 15th floor )

Primary L1 is just several turns of solid copper wire, not sure what gauge, maybe 16 or 18, it is not important. The photo should be self-explanatory.

In any case, the black probe is from my TekScope and the black coiled cable underneath the coil is a pickup for my spectrum analyzer.

So, the bottom line is this. Scope probe inside the coil picks up ~37kHz oscillations and shows about 44Vpp (somewhat) sine wave. There's no arcing on the spark arrestor, and there couldn't be at this low voltage anyway as it is rated 350VDC.

My hand-held frequency meter picks up a field of about 3.5-4ft diameter at ~37kHz which I think is from the NST and not the coil.

Spectrum Analyzer shows nothing but perhaps the frequency is so low (37kHz) that it does not cover that range. Alas, there are no harmonic either, if the primary circuit oscillator really does work.

Scope on the diode output alone shows ~80Vrms and maybe 260Vpp at 37kHz.

I am not sure how this circuit in the current configuration can do anything in the kV range, either on the primary or the secondary side.

Your comments are much welcome.

My Ventex is similar ( 4015 model ) and it doesn't have a center tap on the output coil like the one shown in DS picture. Basically what it appears to me, is a shorted output to the NST by using both output leads that way. I could be wrong but that's my perception of the arrangement.

In an experiment, I set my unit up with one HV diode on one lead, to one side of the cap and the other lead I used a spark gap going to the opposite side of the cap. Very close gap .002" because of the low voltage. connecting the coil to form a tank cirucit. This seemed to allow the NST to operate normally ( HV ) and set up a fairly large field around it. I didn't take it much farter than that except I did put in an L2 coil to get some measurements from it.
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[mlurye]

amigo,
What is the resonance frequency for your LC? Try to tune it to 37kHz, if it is not.

P.S. you need cap ~6-10uF to get there.

[dragon]

@baroutologos and Altair,

You are right, in the configuration that DS has there can not be any self-tuning. I kept thinking about JT and SEC Exciter circuits which have a transistor and a feedback ability so they can self-tune to a resonant frequency, but that's a totally different beast.

I think what he meant by self tuning was the fact the L1 was wound using exactly 1/4 of the length of wire of the L2 which would set up a resonance between the two coils at any frequency, in this case the frequency of the NST would drive the pair.
________

[amigo]

amigo,
What is the resonance frequency for your LC? Try to tune it to 37kHz, if it is not.

I am not even clear that the circuit actually works, the way DS set it up. But I will find out what my L is and get a cap to match it to ~37kHz.

Although, that's not how this is all supposed to work, at least according to DS. The NST frequency is irrelevant and what matters is the L1/L2 ratio and their frequency.

[amigo]

My Ventex is similar ( 4015 model ) and it doesn't have a center tap on the output coil like the one shown in DS picture. Basically what it appears to me, is a shorted output to the NST by using both output leads that way. I could be wrong but that's my perception of the arrangement.

I really do not know whether the mid-point balanced grounding is truly necessary or not, but without a NST that has one, it's hard to tell.

In the DS videos, it appeared that it would work without it, so who knows.

I'll search eBay for a useful NST and see what comes up...