Reactive Power Generator (RPG) Replication Project

[Energy_Hack]

Aaron,
I used the batts that I tested for my reported runs.
I recharged them all and am running up to 16hrs a day.
I'll report when they go below 60v, standing, or it appears that they won't indefinitely.
We are over 36hrs run time at present.
With the present Amp draw, at less than 20hrs runtime we have OU.
Will report.
bro d

Bro D,

Do you have your batteries set up in parallel configuration, where the grounds are tied together? Or the more classic Bedini style? Apologies if you already answered that elsewhere in the thread.

See this schematic from Julian P. It shows batteries in parallel configuration.

EH

[Donald Haas]

Ok cool, what is that present amp draw while running?

Amp draw is 1.1A,

Do you have #'s for Paul B's patents?

bro d

[Donald Haas]

Bro D,

Do you have your batteries set up in parallel configuration, where the grounds are tied together? Or the more classic Bedini style? Apologies if you already answered that elsewhere in the thread.


EH

My Batteries are classic SG with the positive of the run batt and the negative of the charge batt joined at the circuit board.

bro d

[Aaron]

Amp draw is 1.1A,

Do you have #'s for Paul B's patents?

bro d

You can find it easy with Paul's name as inventor and/or Flyback Energy as assignee. I don't know the patent numbers off hand - been years since I have studied them but I'd recommend it to everyone here.

[Donald Haas]

Hi All,

66W input for 68hours. 66 x 68 = 4488Wh+360Wh (Gen output) = 4848 Wh used. (5W Gen output)

Estimated 18Ah from batteries according to voltage decrease. (post #123)

18 x60= 1080Wh from batts standing slightly above 60v.

4848Wh / 1080 = COP 4.488 after 68hrs runtime.

I let the batts stand for about 8 hrs, after daily runs of upto 16hrs.

This should add to length of runtime because of being unloaded and self rejuvenation.

The goal is infinite COP.

An additional 16hr run is in progress at present on same charge of batts.

bro d

[Donald Haas]

https://patents.google.com/?inventor...q=Paul+Babcock

[Aaron]

Energy_Hack and all who are trying to replicate the RPG concept - can you do a discharge test on a fully charged battery based on how much current you can pull for 20 hours from full charge to 12v (if starter battery) or 10.5v if deep cycle?

Unless you have that number, you don't really have a benchmark to compare what your system is actually doing.

[Aaron]

Big congratulations to Donald for being the first to publish these promising results and it goes to show that in principle, the RPG methodology is indeed simple in concept.

It's definitely duplicatable and doesn't rely on moon cycles, other subtleties, etc. The "They are all the same" principles work.

Of course as Donald mentions, infinite COP is the goal and if the batteries sustain, then the COP automatically moves towards infinity.

There's a ways to go to tweak everything so that everything is optimized, scaled up, more mechanical at the shaft and so on but this should give everyone confidence they're on the right track.

[Energy_Hack]

Energy_Hack and all who are trying to replicate the RPG concept - can you do a discharge test on a fully charged battery based on how much current you can pull for 20 hours from full charge to 12v (if starter battery) or 10.5v if deep cycle?

Unless you have that number, you don't really have a benchmark to compare what your system is actually doing.

Aaron,

I can try a load test of 5A and see if the battery is dead in 20-hours. But are you talking 10.5v "rested" or 10.5v "running under load"?

The batteries I'm using are Marine Deep Cycle "Everstart-brand" from Walmart and listed as 101Ah.

I assume they should discharge 5A for 20 hours and then be fully depleted. To be fair, I have not done a load test except while being used in the RPG.

(Incidentally, their MCA is listed at 690 which requires dividing by 6.9 to get to 100Ah....so the factor of 7 is spot on)

My latest test has them close to 100Ah discharged and one bank is about 11.80 (rested) and 12.1 (rested) on the other. So, if we're talking rested voltage, they will certainly surpass 100Ah discharged. If we're talking running voltage 10.5, then the one bank is getting close to empty already.

One other thing to point out. I have the batts set up in common-ground mode and it measurably recovers 30+% of the power into the coil, into the charge battery. So then, the batteries are net using only 70% of their measured output and the other 30% is returned to the charge battery. This should be accounted for in the energy balance. They should deliver 130Ah before empty.

EH

[Energy_Hack]

Hi All,

66W input for 68hours. 66 x 68 = 4488Wh+360Wh (Gen output) = 4848 Wh used. (5W Gen output)

Estimated 18Ah from batteries according to voltage decrease. (post #123)

18 x60= 1080Wh from batts standing slightly above 60v.

4848Wh / 1080 = COP 4.488 after 68hrs runtime.

I let the batts stand for about 8 hrs, after daily runs of upto 16hrs.

This should add to length of runtime because of being unloaded and self rejuvenation.

The goal is infinite COP.

An additional 16hr run is in progress at present on same charge of batts.

bro d

Bro D,

You have (10) 12-v batteries arranged in two banks. What is the Ah rating (or CCA) of each battery? Is it your 10Ah, your 35Ah, or your 100Ah batts?

Batt Rating	System Rating	System Watt-hr	Wh Delivered	COP
10 Ah	10Ah	1200	4848	4.0
35Ah	35Ah	4,200	4848	1.15
100Ah	100Ah	12,000	4848	0.404

[Aaron]

Aaron,

I can try a load test of 5A and see if the battery is dead in 20-hours. But are you talking 10.5v "rested" or 10.5v "running under load"?

The batteries I'm using are Marine Deep Cycle "Everstart-brand" from Walmart and listed as 101Ah.

I assume they should discharge 5A for 20 hours and then be fully depleted. To be fair, I have not done a load test except while being used in the RPG.

(Incidentally, their MCA is listed at 690 which requires dividing by 6.9 to get to 100Ah....so the factor of 7 is spot on)

My latest test has them close to 100Ah discharged and one bank is about 11.80 (rested) and 12.1 (rested) on the other. So, if we're talking rested voltage, they will certainly surpass 100Ah discharged. If we're talking running voltage 10.5, then the one bank is getting close to empty already.

One other thing to point out. I have the batts set up in common-ground mode and it measurably recovers 30+% of the power into the coil, into the charge battery. So then, the batteries are net using only 70% of their measured output and the other 30% is returned to the charge battery. This should be accounted for in the energy balance. They should deliver 130Ah before empty.

EH

Marine Deep Cycle's are great, but anything with a factory Ah rating is going to have a way more predictable discharge than the starter batteries.

Yes, 5A is the 20 hour rating, which is what the specified Ah rating is based on.

I would charge it up fully and discharge it with a 5 amp load until the battery comes down to 10.5 volts. If you get just about 100 or close enough amp hours, then your batteries are in good shape.

The CBA IV is the best way because it is a constant current load that does not change the current draw as the battery voltage drops.

Really, I don't think the deep cycles need that discharge test in order to confirm what you will get out of it since they do predictably follow the rated Ah rating pretty close. But, depending on the battery's age, might be good so you can see where it is at. In pretty good shape, it will be just about what the Ah rating is and if the battery is conditioned/reuvenated when purchased new, it will be 110% of the mfg rated Ah easily.

I think it is critical for starter batteries because there is nothing predictable about them in terms of delivering a steady load for however long. Donald's CCA is 650 and you have to divide that by 65 times in order to get 10 Ah rating, which is what his numbers show would be from full charge to 12 volts. The divide by 7 is an entire order of magnitude off from Donald's batteries.

Have you connected the batteries in classic SG mode like Donald's to compare?

[edbecnel]

The batteries are always believed to be necessary because of the nature of their chemistry and how they convert the potential to charge separation. It's a much different process than charging capacitors where you typically have none of that.

That being said, I don't want to rule out capacitors totally because capacitors can be conditioned as well. Delivering high voltage spikes to capacitors, spikes much higher in voltage than the capacitor is meant for can change the properties of the dielectric constant of the materials where they start to behave like electrets and no matter how many times you short them out, they spring back to the original voltage over and over.

Around 2002 or so, I discovered this with some AC microwave over caps I was using as DC caps. I ran a Sony Capstan (reel to reel motor) on an SG circuit - 2 coils power and 2 coils recovery. Recover spikes were going to this capacitor. I originally had a SCR from that cap to a secondary battery trigged by a neon so when it hit about 100 volts, neon flashed and triggered SCR to dump that cap to a battery. This happened for countless hours over weeks with my experiments. With other experiments I was charging it to several hundred volts. At one point, I was shorting it out and if the cap was at 150 vdc, it would instantly spring right back up to 150 vdc. It was astounding.

Around 2007-2008, I ran a 2000 turn Bedini SG trifilar solid state with an RCA 3055 and the 3rd recover winding was charging a Mallory 33000 uf 60vdc cap (pretty close to that from my recollection) - the silver soda can size caps. I had a different kind of recovery circuit there to feed the cap back to the front side cap (I didn't use batteries) so the back cap could see the front but the front side circuit couldn't see the back or it wouldn't work right. I posted that circuit long ago here in this forum, nobody was interested so I'm not going to discuss it anymore. In any case, I conditioned those caps ahead of time with ignition coil output spikes using an Imhotep relay oscillator (posted in this forum) and was literally charging/conditioning those caps with ignition coils spikes from 12v input to whatever the output was. Same thing - their tendency to want to jump up in voltage to where they were was definitely there, the trifilar solid state SG self ran. I charged the input to maybe 5-10 volts or whatever, ran it and although I got nothing useable out of it, the RCA 3055 would continue to self-oscillate (not forced oscillate) that circuit until it was down to like 0.2 or less volts - you can look up those transistors and they should be able to run on that low of voltage but in any case, the input cap went down, output cap went up then it hit an equilibrium and the input cap started to come up on its own and would just stay there as long as I had it on. The output cap was tied to a ground rod as well.

I have other cap conditioning experiences with this and it is a whole area that needs more research. I'm not the only one that knows about this. Bedini used it to his advantage. In the SG and related circuits that charged a cap for cap dump purposes with his comparator cap discharge circuits or other simple cap dump methods, all the spikes going to those caps to "forward convert" that potential to something positive so the batteries were compatible with normal hot current chargers, they had developed a pretty good self charging effect that augmented the total charge that was above what came from the circuit - yet another gain mechanism that I didn't mention because we're not doing cap dump with the RPG systems.

Bottom line - use batteries because it's a known.

For caps, supercapacitors, graphene batteries don't exist they're all capacitors in reality - do they have the ability to be conditioned like this? I don't know but would be interested in finding out and that would be worthy of a whole other thread so it's not off topic here and if they can be conditioned to have this bounce back effect, then you have a whole other light weight option. Yes, caps will rebound a bit on their own when shorted but a tiny fraction of the rebound I'm talking about when conditioned with high voltage spikes.

I'd use fat wire for all power connections, etc. for as low of resistance as possible.

Once we can get the circuitry and design details all ironed out for a working RPG, it would then be the right time to begin investigating using conditioned caps. I would definitely research using graphene batteries/super caps.

[Donald Haas]

EH, my brother,

I tested 4 of my 12v, 650cca batts with the CVA IV battery analyzer. Each test was the same except for amp draw. I did tests of 4, 3, 2, and 1 amp draws.

Each batt was "fully charged" with a Bedini battery charger to above 15v before taken off charger.

The average of the Ah drawn during the 4 tests is 9.13Ah

The average of the tests start voltages is 13.04v

The CBA IV ended; each test at exactly 12v, under load.

Standing voltage shortly after each test was around 12.4 and would probably rise with time.

I estimated 18Ah total, drawn from the 2, in series 60V banks because they were standing around 60.13v after the 68hrs of run time.

Adding Generator output Wh to the estimated total ampdraw in Wh, raises the COP # a little.

Post #145

I'm glad that you are here to help us with accurate reporting and defining results.

bro d

[Energy_Hack]

Marine Deep Cycle's are great, but anything with a factory Ah rating is going to have a way more predictable discharge than the starter batteries.

Yes, 5A is the 20 hour rating, which is what the specified Ah rating is based on.

I would charge it up fully and discharge it with a 5 amp load until the battery comes down to 10.5 volts. If you get just about 100 or close enough amp hours, then your batteries are in good shape.

The CBA IV is the best way because it is a constant current load that does not change the current draw as the battery voltage drops.

Really, I don't think the deep cycles need that discharge test in order to confirm what you will get out of it since they do predictably follow the rated Ah rating pretty close. But, depending on the battery's age, might be good so you can see where it is at. In pretty good shape, it will be just about what the Ah rating is and if the battery is conditioned/reuvenated when purchased new, it will be 110% of the mfg rated Ah easily.

I think it is critical for starter batteries because there is nothing predictable about them in terms of delivering a steady load for however long. Donald's CCA is 650 and you have to divide that by 65 times in order to get 10 Ah rating, which is what his numbers show would be from full charge to 12 volts. The divide by 7 is an entire order of magnitude off from Donald's batteries.

Have you connected the batteries in classic SG mode like Donald's to compare?

That's interesting that starter batteries are so different than the deep cycle but I suppose they are not truly designed for prolonged loads so it makes sense.

I'll have to invest in the CBA here eventually, that would offer much more accurate results. I typically use cheap DC meters from Amazon that have Ah and Watt-hour totalizers.

I've tried in the standard SG mode and I get less run time before hitting 10.5v (running voltage).

The common-ground outputs more power but a little less rotor torque since the induced voltage from the rotating magnet draws some power from drive to charge bank outside of the pulse and that causes a bit of lenz drag. I may try and reconfigure the electronics to shutoff the circuit after pulsing... I suppose mechanical switching could help with this or a PWM to cut it off.

Thanks for comments.

EH

[Energy_Hack]

EH, my brother,

I tested 4 of my 12v, 650cca batts with the CVA IV battery analyzer. Each test was the same expect for amp draw. I did tests of 4, 3, 2, and 1 amp draws.

Each batt was "fully charged" with a Bedini battery charger to above 15v before taken off charger.

The average of the Ah drawn during the 4 tests is 9.13Ah

The average of the tests start voltages is 13.04v

The CBA IV ended; each test at exactly 12v, under load.

Standing voltage shortly after each test was around 12.4 and would probably rise with time.

I estimated 18Ah total, drawn from the 2, in series 60V banks because they were standing around 60.13v after the 68hrs of run time.

Adding Generator output Wh to the estimated total ampdraw in Wh, raises the COP # a little.

Post #145

I glad that you are here to help us with accurate reporting and defining results.

bro d

Bro D,

Nice Work! You have shown your batteries can do 10Ah under conventional loading and 4x that in the RPG set up, and maybe more.

I do think you should include the 20% you're recycling, so the batteries would be more like 12Ah's. (for example, if you feed the circuit 1A and recycle 0.2A, then you really only pulled a net 0.8A)

Either way, you're way over the conventional discharge of 1200watt-hours.

It appears the "Starter Battery" or "Car Battery" may be the way to go with these pulse systems.

Appreciate all the data and record keeping!

Bro EH