Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[xee2]

I get problems with my transistors blowing at 6V on my battery (0.7A), if i run it longer than a few mins....12V and i only have a few seconds.

@ Seth

Jiffycoil suggested that current might be controled by the L2 coil and my tests have shown that seems to be true. Attached is summary of my tests. You may be able to reduce current going into transistors by adjusting the turns on the L2 coil and thus keep the transistor cooler.

[seth]

Yes I did use the MPSA06 and at 12V's I have plasma. I'm not sure if its the coils that I'm using that help with the output and I also have not had burn out problems with the transistors. I use a converted computer power supply for my power supply and I wind all my coils and clear coat them. I'm using the TIP31 in place of the MPSA06 and I can run it for 20-30 min at 24 volts and have little warming of the transistor. I did heat sink the MPSA06 using 1/4 copper tubing crimped around the transistor. Ill recreate that setup and check the amp draw and film it for you.

I'm just as amazed with this circuit as you are and I learn something new every time I experiment with it.

The TIP 31 is working well for me too, but only at low voltages. gonna try and buy some of the MPSA06 things tomorrow. I get problems with my transistors blowing at 6V on my battery (0.7A), if i run it longer than a few mins....12V and i only have a few seconds.

[xee2]

@ Jiffycoil

Thanks for your help. I have decided to try a bigger coil to see if I could get a plasma stream using two cell phone chargers in series (two AA batteries). From what you have shown, it seems that the inductance of the coil is the most critical perameter for generating plasma.

[Jiffycoil]

@ Jiffycoil

On August 28th you posted data for your S Exciter 2. The text with the photos listed the transistor as an MPSA06 @12 volts. In the photos there were plasma streams of over 1 cm. Were you really able to get those plasma streams using the MPSA06? If so, very impressive. Everyone else seems to need to use power transistors to get plasma streams. Do you know how much current was being used from the 12 volt supply?

Yes I did use the MPSA06 and at 12V's I have plasma. I'm not sure if its the coils that I'm using that help with the output and I also have not had burn out problems with the transistors. I use a converted computer power supply for my power supply and I wind all my coils and clear coat them. I'm using the TIP31 in place of the MPSA06 and I can run it for 20-30 min at 24 volts and have little warming of the transistor. I did heat sink the MPSA06 using 1/4 copper tubing crimped around the transistor. Ill recreate that setup and check the amp draw and film it for you.

I'm just as amazed with this circuit as you are and I learn something new every time I experiment with it.

[seth]

This is a project I started several weeks ago and it has become an obsession. It actually started because it intrigued me that you could excite electrons in conductors which in turn could actually do some work. It seems to be "morphing" into other areas.

This thing ( for lack of a term for it ) has an accumulation of ideas from several others here on the board as well as my own so you'll probably notice some of your work here. I'll do my best at explaining it as it is so far...

The basic portion of the unit is a tesla coil and probably more related to the kacher/slayer circuit ( details are in the picture ). From the HV output end of the coil it's connected to a coil that is around a 2" diameter aluminum, the center top is then connected to a second larger coil around a larger aluminum. The center of this one is connected to an AV plug on 2 rails which are also aluminum rods.

Under the circuit and battery box is a parasitic plate, double sided copper cladd with the top wire going to the positive side of the aluminum rail. This trick was borrowed from Dr Stiffler ( thank your very much Sir ! ).

All that is there, so far, has enhanced the output and these are a few of the things I've observed...

Firstly the little motor will draw 1/2 amp when loaded and according to the scope it's running at a little over 22 volts and operates at around 7500 rpm unloaded and about 5000 loaded. Seems to have lots of torque.

I noticed when I first fire it up it comes up to speed and runs fine, the longer it runs - it continues to build speed and torque. I was a bit confused by this and did some tests to find out what was going on. I noticed as well that the transistor continuously got hotter as it ran. I connected my scope to the battery bank ( 4 - 1.2 volt rechargable ) and it was reading 6 volts. This was about 1/2 volt higher than it started. I connected it back up to the circuit, leaving the probe on the battery and fired it up. The voltage would continuously rise the longer it ran. The scope showed the battery bank was rising to 8.5 volts during long run times. That would explain the overheating and rise in rpm on the motor. But not why it was doing this ( still don't know for sure ). When the battery bank is moved off the parasitic plate this stops and all goes back to normal.

I connected a 160uf 330volt capacitor to the output of the rails and connected a relay that would discharge the cap at around 120 volts set on a 1 second timer. The first load was a 4 watt night light, which was way to bright. The second was a 7.5 watt night light still very bright and lastly a 15 watt bulb that wasn't super bright but lit quite well with the 1 second delay pulse.

I had read through Lamare's postings absorbing as much as I could comprehend and didn't make the connection until the pdf drawing that was posted here. The third drawing looks alot like my output rails and the motor being the inductor. I did try a couple transformers but neither produced anything worth mentioning. I believe they would need to be set to the resonant frequency of the circuit to actually produce an output.

I think I've actually ended up with more questions than I started with in the beginning of this project. Any input is welcome... no claims being made here but it sure seems there is something beyond the norm going on....

Fascinating stuff - Good luck mate, and thanks for sharing the details....

Its certainly makes me want to have a go with a parasitic plate on the exciter.

[xee2]

@ Jiffycoil

On August 28th you posted data for your S Exciter 2. The text with the photos listed the transistor as an MPSA06 @12 volts. In the photos there were plasma streams of over 1 cm. Were you really able to get those plasma streams using the MPSA06? If so, very impressive. Everyone else seems to need to use power transistors to get plasma streams. Do you know how much current was being used from the 12 volt supply?

[lamare]

So the value of the capacitor is pretty critical. It's reactance, comparable to its resistance, depends on the frequency according to the formula X = 1 / ( 2 * pi * f * C )
see: Reactance of a Capacitor

Based on that, I guess a cap of about 100 nF for the 1.5 MHz frequency of the Slayer circuit would do. That gives you a reactance of 1 at 1.5 MHz and 160 at 10 kHz, if I calculated correctly:

I have been thinking about this while trying to sleep. This calculation does not really apply here, because this is an open system with virtually no current going back / forth.

In order to say anything about the coupling from exciter coil into a normal transformer, we will have to look at the parasitic capacitance of the coils. Given that a normal transformer has a much lower resonance frequency then our exciter coil has, you can neglect the inductance of the transformer in the calculations.

What does happen hoever is that you get the self/parasite capacitance of the transformer and your couple cap in parallel to the self/parasite capacitance of your exciter coil, which means it's resonance frequency will drop.

Since it is very hard to get accurate info on the self/parasite capacitance of a transformer, I think it would be best to start with a 100 pF trimmer as the couple cap. That way, you can tune the coupling such that at least your exciter keeps resonating....

Will think this over further later.

@dragon : thanks for your post. Will look into that later too. It's 2:00 in the morning over here now....


Update: posted some more on this here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post109690
Now waiting for what Doc has to say.

[dragon]

lamare's experiment

Hi all,

Maybe I should tell you guys a littlebit more about my theory to make you enthousiast. The idea is to use the circuits you're using as a replacement for Gray's CSET. I have spent a lot of time with the theory, which is based on Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" as well as Prof. Turturs calculations showing that the electric field is an energy source, so I am very confident my theory is correct. You can trust me on this: I did my homework on that one.

And if my theory is correct,you should be able to get lots of power driving a transformer the way I showed it. This should more or less be a solid state equivalent of what Gray was doing, using a modern variant of his spark gap oscillator known as the CSET.

The only question that remains is this one. Do you have to drive the transformer into resonance, or can you do without?

So, IMHO, this is very promising and worth a try. I will do so myself, but I don't have much time for actual experimenting, since I have a job and a family to take care of....

-- Arend --

This is a project I started several weeks ago and it has become an obsession. It actually started because it intrigued me that you could excite electrons in conductors which in turn could actually do some work. It seems to be "morphing" into other areas.

This thing ( for lack of a term for it ) has an accumulation of ideas from several others here on the board as well as my own so you'll probably notice some of your work here. I'll do my best at explaining it as it is so far...

The basic portion of the unit is a tesla coil and probably more related to the kacher/slayer circuit ( details are in the picture ). From the HV output end of the coil it's connected to a coil that is around a 2" diameter aluminum, the center top is then connected to a second larger coil around a larger aluminum. The center of this one is connected to an AV plug on 2 rails which are also aluminum rods.

Under the circuit and battery box is a parasitic plate, double sided copper cladd with the top wire going to the positive side of the aluminum rail. This trick was borrowed from Dr Stiffler ( thank your very much Sir ! ).

All that is there, so far, has enhanced the output and these are a few of the things I've observed...

Firstly the little motor will draw 1/2 amp when loaded and according to the scope it's running at a little over 22 volts and operates at around 7500 rpm unloaded and about 5000 loaded. Seems to have lots of torque.

I noticed when I first fire it up it comes up to speed and runs fine, the longer it runs - it continues to build speed and torque. I was a bit confused by this and did some tests to find out what was going on. I noticed as well that the transistor continuously got hotter as it ran. I connected my scope to the battery bank ( 4 - 1.2 volt rechargable ) and it was reading 6 volts. This was about 1/2 volt higher than it started. I connected it back up to the circuit, leaving the probe on the battery and fired it up. The voltage would continuously rise the longer it ran. The scope showed the battery bank was rising to 8.5 volts during long run times. That would explain the overheating and rise in rpm on the motor. But not why it was doing this ( still don't know for sure ). When the battery bank is moved off the parasitic plate this stops and all goes back to normal.

I connected a 160uf 330volt capacitor to the output of the rails and connected a relay that would discharge the cap at around 120 volts set on a 1 second timer. The first load was a 4 watt night light, which was way to bright. The second was a 7.5 watt night light still very bright and lastly a 15 watt bulb that wasn't super bright but lit quite well with the 1 second delay pulse.

I had read through Lamare's postings absorbing as much as I could comprehend and didn't make the connection until the pdf drawing that was posted here. The third drawing looks alot like my output rails and the motor being the inductor. I did try a couple transformers but neither produced anything worth mentioning. I believe they would need to be set to the resonant frequency of the circuit to actually produce an output.

I think I've actually ended up with more questions than I started with in the beginning of this project. Any input is welcome... no claims being made here but it sure seems there is something beyond the norm going on....
________
Mutual insurance forum

[lamare]

Im very interested in trying some suggestions. What do i need? Do i understand that you want to build something that combines the exciter/SEC and gray circuit?

Ive read your article on peswiki, as well as the other thread, and found them both interesting - ive done experiments before with lifters and i had a go at turturs experiment succesfully, though no power measurements. I like some of beardons stuff - the theory he offers makes sense to me. And ive got a simple exciter.
Problem is, im no electrical engineer, so i often need thngs explained simply - couldnt make much sense of the circuit diagrams you posted earlier - there seemed to be three of them. How do they relate to one another?

Thanks for any help! I'll be pretty slow as work is back at maximum and family is increasing in size

I have drawn the idea in this pdf:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...chable_sec.pdf

The idea is first of all to switch the exciter on and of using a timer. I have drawn the original Dr. Stiffler circuit, as shown here in my pdf, but that should not be critical:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post109533

If I assume you are using this circuit:

Then you would have to cut the negative from the battery and put a transistor in that line, so you can switch the whole thing on/off using that transistor. You probably also need a pull up resistor, which would go from the collector of the switching transistor to the positive of the battery. I have not drawn that, but if needed I think something like 10k should do.

Then you drive this switching transistor from a timer circuit, such as a 555. This way, you get a sort of pulsed output. When the transistor is "on" you get the 1.5 MHz signal, when it is "off" you get nothing. So, this would be comparable to Grays commutator.

Now with the circuit as above, you would take the output of the open end of L1 and use that to drive a transformer, trough a couple capacitor and a half wave bridge, as shown in my pdf.

If this all works out, you get high voltage on the primary of the transformer while the switching transistor is "on" and whatever the transformer feels like doing while the transistor is "off". Now the transformer should have a resonance frequency in the order of 10 kHz or so, so the junk generated by the transformer cannot reach your L1, *if* your couple capacitor is small enough. I suggested something like 10 pF to 10 nF in my pdf.

According to Dr. Stiffler, you need fast switching diodes, but he is doing other stuff than this, so your mileage may vary. The couple cap should be a high voltage type.

The three parts in the pdf show the following:
top/left : an exciter circuit made switchable using a transistor. The label marked "out" is what on the above circuit would be the open end of L1.

middle/right: the equivalent how Gray drove his transformer, as far as I can tell. Because he drove both sides of the coil in phase (i.e. the same signal) he must have used a bifilar would coil for his primary, so wound with two wires instead of one.

Bottom: my proposal - a normal transformer driven trough a couple cap and two diodes from the output of a swtched exciter circuit. The capacitor makes sure the HF, HV signal on the coil can pass towards the transformer, while the diodes rectify this signal, so you get one positive and one negative terminal at the transformer. It sort of "step charges" the transformer this way and that should happen very quickly.

Now if you switch the exciter on/off, then you get the "step charging" effect during the "on period", while you shoud get something like a discharge during the "off" period. And because the transformer has a relatively low self resonance frequency (something in the order of 10 kHz), the signals generated by the transformer cannot pass the couple capacitor if that has the correct value.

So the value of the capacitor is pretty critical. It's reactance, comparable to its resistance, depends on the frequency according to the formula X = 1 / ( 2 * pi * f * C )
see: Reactance of a Capacitor

Based on that, I guess a cap of about 100 nF for the 1.5 MHz frequency of the Slayer circuit would do. That gives you a reactance of 1 at 1.5 MHz and 160 at 10 kHz, if I calculated correctly:

>>> print 1 / (2 * 3.1415 * 1.5e6 * 100e-9)
1.06106424744
>>> print 1 / (2 * 3.1415 * 10e3 * 100e-9)
159.159637116

[seth]

Hi all,

Maybe I should tell you guys a littlebit more about my theory to make you enthousiast. The idea is to use the circuits you're using as a replacement for Gray's CSET. I have spent a lot of time with the theory, which is based on Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" as well as Prof. Turturs calculations showing that the electric field is an energy source, so I am very confident my theory is correct. You can trust me on this: I did my homework on that one.

And if my theory is correct,you should be able to get lots of power driving a transformer the way I showed it. This should more or less be a solid state equivalent of what Gray was doing, using a modern variant of his spark gap oscillator known as the CSET.

The only question that remains is this one. Do you have to drive the transformer into resonance, or can you do without?

So, IMHO, this is very promising and worth a try. I will do so myself, but I don't have much time for actual experimenting, since I have a job and a family to take care of....

-- Arend --

Im very interested in trying some suggestions. What do i need? Do i understand that you want to build something that combines the exciter/SEC and gray circuit?

Ive read your article on peswiki, as well as the other thread, and found them both interesting - ive done experiments before with lifters and i had a go at turturs experiment succesfully, though no power measurements. I like some of beardons stuff - the theory he offers makes sense to me. And ive got a simple exciter.
Problem is, im no electrical engineer, so i often need thngs explained simply - couldnt make much sense of the circuit diagrams you posted earlier - there seemed to be three of them. How do they relate to one another?

Thanks for any help! I'll be pretty slow as work is back at maximum and family is increasing in size

[lamare]

Hi all,

Maybe I should tell you guys a littlebit more about my theory to make you enthousiast. The idea is to use the circuits you're using as a replacement for Gray's CSET. I have spent a lot of time with the theory, which is based on Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" as well as Prof. Turturs calculations showing that the electric field is an energy source, so I am very confident my theory is correct. You can trust me on this: I did my homework on that one.

And if my theory is correct,you should be able to get lots of power driving a transformer the way I showed it. This should more or less be a solid state equivalent of what Gray was doing, using a modern variant of his spark gap oscillator known as the CSET.

The only question that remains is this one. Do you have to drive the transformer into resonance, or can you do without?

So, IMHO, this is very promising and worth a try. I will do so myself, but I don't have much time for actual experimenting, since I have a job and a family to take care of....

-- Arend --

[anonymussle]

DC Voltage Multiplier

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a simple DC voltage multiplier/doubler. I realize I could probably just pick up a 1.5vdc cell phone charger but I'd rather build it if I can.

Thanks,
Mussle

[totoalas]

Slayer Lidmotor Mini Tesla Coil Endurance Test

Hi to all;
With Slayer 1 Mohm 2 Mpsa06 (with one hanging e ) 14 cm tall 2 cm dia
coil 29 ga 7 t 21 plastic insulated 8 watt fl lamp load

9v dc square battery @ 60ma 16 hours continuous run before voltage is depleted
Charged with jt the 9 v battery and 16 hours run and so on and so on........

How about yours


cheers

totoalas

[anonymussle]

Simple SEC w/5 bulbs

Hi all,

Terrible pic (bad camera) but here's one with a 1watt fluoro (at top), a 9watt (middle) and 3 5watt (bottom). Running on 4.5vdc (3 AAs) at 30ma. Seems pretty amazing to me

Mussle

[lamare]

Hi all,

I have spent quite some time analysing Gray, Puharich and Meyer's systems. Turns out they all use the same principle. See my article over at Peswiki:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

Since you guys are working on SEC exciters and variants, you may want to take a look at my post over here and see wether or not my theory can be experimentally verified:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post109533

There are multiple versions [of the SEC exciter], this one needs an adjustable coil. IIRC, there is also one which does not need that and is tuned with a variable cap. So, based on this one, you find the schematic attached which I had in mind. I didn't draw all the decoupling caps, etc. but you get the idea. Just switch it on and off using a 555 timer or something like that. If this SEC circuit starts fast enough, I think this should work.

I also drew a comparison with what Gray was more or less doing, so you can see the similarities. If I finally understand this right, with Gray's stuff, you would need a bifilar wound coil or two identical coils in series (as you see with Meyer and Puharich, but for different reasons), because he drives both terminals in phase. With an AV plug, you should not need a bifilar wound primary, so this should work.

Gray used a spark gap oscillator and this is also an oscillator, but one that is much easier to build, tune and control. And because of the ultra wide bandwidth of Doc's circuit, this is about as close as you can get to a real spark gap oscillator with modern electronics.

I have drawn the couple cap before the AV plug, but it may be that you need two couple caps and place them after the AV plug, more or less as I have shown with the Gray equivalent.

So, it will be interesting to experiment with this circuit and make your own variations. It is very similar to what Gray did and with this we will at least get some answers to some of the questions that remain. And with a bit of luck, we hit the jackpot straight away.

You can find the attached pdf with my proposed schematic here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...chable_sec.pdf

So, have fun and happy hunting to all of you!



-- Arend --