Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[jonnydavro]

@rave154.Hi David.Have you checked if there is any output at all with an av plug led detector?This is without doubt the most useful tool to use with exciter circuits.If no output at all, theres a couple of things you can try.
First off try reversing the conections to the L2 on the torroid.
If using a torroid L1/L2,the coils need to be wound in opposite directions so check this.
Wind a copper L2 coil and try that.Jonny
@Farrah.I tried the kitchen scourer and it works and i could see no deteriation at all of the electrodes although there was a lot of gunk around it.This was a three hour test using defrosted ice from my freezer.What do you think?jonny

[rave154]

ok all,

ive finished my L1 (30 SWG) and wired up the circuit using a toroid with 10 turns and 35 turns of 20 SWG magnet wire..fried two 2N2222 within minutes.. so switched to a 3055... gets slightly warm..amp draw of about 140mA... but no action on the neon either close to.or touching the L!

my L! has approx 580 turns, diameter 33mm.

Hay-ULP

[Farrah Day]

@Farrah Day.


Hi FarrahIt works.I did that test you suggested and kept the diode out of the water and used some croc leads and two straightened paper clips for electrodes,I could not find any thin stainless steel.
Here is a pic.Jonny

Nice one JD, I fully expected it to work. However you do really need to confirm the test with stainless steel just to completely eliminate the possibility of the metal paper clip reacting.

If you look at the depiction of my proof of concept Closed-Loop Electrolyser, you'll see the only real difference between that and what you are doing is that I have a spark gap instead of a diode. I was envisioning too much current to be flowing for diodes to handle - at least any diodes I have. Hence the spark gap, as per Lord Kelvins Water Dropper Experiment.

This really is the start of something big. Scientists will need to re-evaluate what they think they know about electrolysis and perhaps rewrite (or at least update) a few text books me thinks!

[jonnydavro]

@Farrah Day.

I don't see why the diode body has to be in the water at all - I doubt very much that it does. Neither do I see why you would need the diode leads themselves in the water... unless the tin coating is playing a major part. In which case the Doc's idea of carbon leads would not work.

Put some stainless steel wire (or a bit of one of those stainless steel dish scourers) on the diode leads and don't let the tinned diode leads enter the water and try it.

Hi FarrahIt works.I did that test you suggested and kept the diode out of the water and used some croc leads and two straightened paper clips for electrodes,I could not find any thin stainless steel.
Here is a pic.Jonny


@All.I also tried two diodes in the testube and they both produced lots of gas with a direct connection to L1 and also wirelessly with the rectangle coil.
The testube's i use are glass and have a diameter of 10mm.
@Rave154.Hi David.Using the 30 swg is a good idea as like you say,it will be interesting to see how the thinner wire performs,especially with the Rodin coil .I have not quite summoned the courage to wind a fine wire coil but that may change when i see what yours can do.Nice work.Jonny
@totoalas Hi,nice workHave you tried electrolysis of your L3 and also Dr Stifflers single diode electrolysis?
It is also interesting how you have to orientate your coil free end's in relation to each other for max output.Interesting.Jonny.

[rave154]

Johnny,

thanks for the info, i have just finished winding my L1, its onto cardboard clingfilm tube, 30mm diameter....but i left a few dozen wraps of the clingfilm on the tube before winding the coil..so basically i have still wound onto "plastic"..and we know how well clingfilm reacts to & with static charges.

i also used 30SWG wire.

i chose to use this tube rather than the bottle & also the thinner wire so as to give a comparison between setups which might help point the way as to which direction to go in...thicker wire.thinner wire.....more turns..less turns....plastic or no plastic etc.

luckily...the outside diameter of my L! is just a tad smaller than the inside diameter of my 2 rodin coils ( yes....you can see where this is going cant you ! )

i will try the circuit tomorrow, i will use my function-gen first...just to get a feel to see if there any sweet spots with regard to amp draw / H-production in response to frequency up to 2MHz....after that i will switch to the exciter circuit.

[rave154]

good work im in the middle of winding my L1......oh what FUN !

[totoalas]

Sec@12 Volts WITH L3 ON L1

HI TO ALL
Ive managed to increase the L1 output by winding a 10 t fm antenna cable on 1 iinch below top of L1 it produced arc same as L1 so i have 3 output on one coil
Now im using 1 1/2in dia 12 inches tall L1 26 awg coil L2 10t 21 awg
When properly tuned the ends of L1 parallel to the coil pointing in the middle
the other ends of L3 perpendicular to L1 and circular direction
I was able to light 4 8w lamp 8 inches away and 1 20 w on L1 current draw 100ma 12.83 v dc
1 2n2222 plus one mpsa06 b to e and c tobase of 2n2222
for strong electrolysis i used fine screen mesh 316 stainless steel used in sink

cheers
totoalas

[jonnydavro]

@Farrah Day

I don't see why the diode body has to be in the water at all - I doubt very much that it does. Neither do I see why you would need the diode leads themselves in the water... unless the tin coating is playing a major part. In which case the Doc's idea of carbon leads would not work.

Put some stainless steel wire (or a bit of one of those stainless steel dish scourers) on the diode leads and don't let the tinned diode leads enter the water and try it.

Hi Farrah.I will try and do this later today as this would be the perfect solution.Many thanks.Jonny
@Rave 154 Hi David i am not sure but i think you are in the uk so if so,get yourself down to maplins and get A 250 gram roll of 26 swg enamell wire.Also try and get a 16k resistor or something close and then of to Tesco for a 2l bottle of water for 13p for the former.Get rid of the label and leave the water in whilst you wind but first put a half width piece of double sided sticky tape around the top of the bottle and another piece down the lengh.This just helps to control the winding as you sit there for an hour or two as you wind but if you are used to winding coils ,you can omit this.
Start at the top of the bottle and wind anti clockwise from the start of the flat surface to the end.My coil ended up at 205mm and i had a bit of wire left so if you can find a longer former with a similar diameter to the pop bottle then you may want to use that but i would go for plastic rather than cardboard as the fact that plastic can hold a static charge may play some part.
L2 is 8 turns of 18swg enamel wire.
The rectangle reciever is a full roll of 26swg wound anti clockwise onto a piece of rectangle box section found at b+q.
Regarding transistors.The mpsa06 is the best but you should get very good results with a 2222 or bc 182 in fact i can get the Slayer exciter to work with many transistors but try the 2222 first but get a few along with some 4148 diodes for av plugs and the electrolysis.Juju has also found a high power transistor which looks good but i am not sure what it is.if you check his posts you may find out and it may be available here.Also try any transistors you have lieing around as you may find a beaut.
Try powering it with a variable wall adapter as it allows you to experiment with various voltages but be aware that the voltage output of these wall adapters is not accurate as i have found out after Mart pointed this out.My 12v Setting is actually outputting 16v.
I checked this electrolysis with a 1.5v battery and its still producing gas with the settup i just posted above.
If you have any problems,there is plenty of people here to help.
Can't wait to see what you create.Good luck.Jonny.

[rave154]

Johnny,

thanks for doing those extra tests.

its actually very encouraging that you can run a dc motor because a lot of the "exciter" circuits and similar seemed to be great at lighting cfls & bulbs...but hopeless at running motors / coils etc...so the fact you did this is great.

Stanley Meyers setup ....or at least other peoples replications of his cell..was basically stainless steel tubes, concentrically arranged in ever increasing diameters...one tube positive.the other tube ( either inside or outside ) negative. Do you have a little metal tube of sorts..something like the metal ferel ( spelling) that goes around the end of a snooker cue tip handy?

Connect that to the pin of the diode perhaps?

Im going to throw this circuit together myself today... so i have two small Q's

1) with regard to L1 / the HV coil... how many turns and of what SWG guage?

2) the MPSA06.... i dont have this transistor handy... any others that i could use in its place? 2N2222? 2N3055?

thanks,

David. D

[Farrah Day]

@Farrah Day.Hi FarrahI think your right about calling it electrolysis as there is some gas produced of the cathode but not very much.I am noticing it more now i have ramped up the output with the above electroliser mod and the diodes are still working ok but like you say,that coating is disappearing from the cathode electrode so how long they will last is an unknown but with your chemistry knowledge,is there a way to prevent this?I am thinking about sacrificial anodes like they have on boats or am i miles off?
Dr Stiffler says that the diode corrosion problem can be solved with built to order carbon electrode diode's but i always look for other ways of doing things

Hi JD, just to be clear the correct term really is electrolysis. Electroplating uses electrolysis so you don't necessarily need two gases to be evolving to call it electrolysis.

I don't see why the diode body has to be in the water at all - I doubt very much that it does. Neither do I see why you would need the diode leads themselves in the water... unless the tin coating is playing a major part. In which case the Doc's idea of carbon leads would not work.

Put some stainless steel wire (or a bit of one of those stainless steel dish scourers) on the diode leads and don't let the tinned diode leads enter the water and try it.

I'm away from my workbench at present, which is really frustrating!

As far as I'm concerned Doc's carbon lead diode idea would be an unnecessary, unrealistic expense. There are better ways to do this without that expense and without sacrificing the diodes, it's simply that no one has tried it yet.

JD, your new set up has now effectively covered stage two. You are now not only ionising the water, but you are separating the ionic species - drawing them apart within the water. This will increase gas production as the ionic species are less likely to immediately reform into the water molecule.

As I see it, it's now simply a matter of developing the most efficient configuration and scaling things up. Great stuff.

[jonnydavro]

Increased gas production

Hi.After i made the vid yesterday of Dr stifflers single diode electrolysis, using Slayers exciter,i had a little play and found a way to increase gas production.The electrolisers can even be daisy chained and can be powered directly from the exciter's L1 or via a wireless reciever.Here is a diagram of the setup.

@Rave154

Johnny,
i guess 1 question would be, would the gas production increase if the surface area ( or even total mass ) of the anode was increased?

also..increasing the size of the cathode such that the outside diameter of the cathode puts it closer to the inside edge of the glass tube such that there is only a thin layer of water between the two... and see if this increases or decreases the gas.
p.s an idea just occured ot me as well, how about adding parts onto both the anode and cathode to make it into the form of those "Stan Meyer" cells where concentric rings of alternating cathode - anode - cathode - anode... are formed?:

Hi David.I certainly think minimising the distance between the diode and the testube would increase gas output.This might be why i am getting a good flow as my testubes are really small but they could be smaller and experimenting with the size of the cathode and anode would narrow it down further.
I don't know very much about Stan Meyer's cell so i will look it up.
On a side note,you asked the other day about running resistive loads of the exciters well i tried my new rectangle coil with Slayers exciter using the pop bottle L1 coil and it ran a small dc motor wirelessly.Jonny
@Woopy

i did not understand which circuit you use for this experiment. And if i understood right you use distilled water. What is the magnet under the test tube for ?

Hi LaurentI am using the basic Slayer exciter with the 26swg pop bottle L1 coil and an 8 turn 18swg L2.It will work with a torroid L1/L2 also.
I am using Tap water and the magnets were already attached to the testube's as i had used these in an experiment with my one magnet no bearing bedini motor and they stand nice and upright but i don't think they have any effect as i tried it without and could not tell the difference but you never know as the diode legs are magnetic.Cheers.Jonny
@Farrah Day.Hi FarrahI think your right about calling it electrolysis as there is some gas produced of the cathode but not very much.I am noticing it more now i have ramped up the output with the above electroliser mod and the diodes are still working ok but like you say,that coating is disappearing from the cathode electrode so how long they will last is an unknown but with your chemistry knowledge,is there a way to prevent this?I am thinking about sacrificial anodes like they have on boats or am i miles off?
Dr Stiffler says that the diode corrosion problem can be solved with built to order carbon electrode diode's but i always look for other ways of doing things
It is very evident to me that your on home ground with electrolysis so any thoughts and pokes in the right direction are welcome.Jonny
@Slayer HiYep,plenty of gas for sure.I was quite suprised by how much actually evolves.I just hope its Hydrogen but Dr Stiffler says it burns so i am pretty sure its safe to asume it is.
I know what you mean about work grrrr
I am having so much fun with your exciter i am even losing sleep as things pop in and out of my head .
You must try this and i hope Juju does as well as he seems to have made himself a flamethrower jonny.

[woopy]

Oups

i didn't see the Dr Stifler video on electrolisis

i make a try with a plastic test tube and copper, and my small slayer exiter

i works very good in tap water (on the pix it not very good but in fact it is)

voltage between 12 and 15 with totoalas circuit

bravo Dr Stifler and Jonny and Slayer and all.

lets try more diodes and tin and glass tube and hop hop!

good luck at all

Laurent

[slayer007]

HiRave154 wondered if Dr Stifflers one gas "electrolysis" experiment could be replicated using Slayers exciter and it can and works really well.
Here is a vid showing similar results to Dr stifflers and Lidmotors and also gas evoution at a distance.
YouTube - Dr Stiffler's gas produced with a Slayer exciter

@Juju.Wow:Great vid That is a great setup you have and the transistor change has worked out good judging by the plasma output and i love that little spark gap,amazing.Cheers for the vid.Jonny.

Amazing results Jonny.
Now that is a lot of gas comming off that diode.

I have been so bussy with work I haven't had time to do much.
But I will be trying this this weekend.

Thanks for posting your results Jonny.

And thank you Dr. Stiffler for showing this.

[Farrah Day]

Hi JD, great video as per usual.

It's quite all right to call it electrolysis, because that's what it is. The term 'Electrolysis' does not just apply to the breaking down of the water molecule, it can be used to describe the chemical reaction at the electrodes due to the passage of current though any liquid ionic medium.

A diode is in effect two electrodes - a one-way valve. A charge exchange medium.

Did you read my take on this over on the Doc's thread. I don't think he was too impressed, but I'm fairly confident that I'm not far off the mark. I'm much more in my comfort zone with this.

You, Woopy and Slayer also make it quite evident that you don't specifically need a SEC to do this.

The reactive tin coating on the diode leads is somewhat misleading as we will be getting tin oxide (SnO) and hydrogen - no oxygen. Also somewhat misleading is what is happening on the diode leads.

To evolve as gas, the H+ ion needs to pick up an electron, but electrons only flow through a diode in the direction from the cathode to the anode, so the electrons will be taken up from the anode. Hence the H2 evolving from the anode, not as some people might expect, the cathode. Remember that the diode markings indicate conventional current flow, which is positive to negative – opposite to electron flow.

So the hydrogen is being evolved, while the oxygen is going into making up tin oxide which is dropping off the cathode.

While I find this all immensely interesting, I don’t find it to be as enigmatic as other people seem to do, simply because I’ve long believed that water could be ionised by a pulsing electric field. So to me, this is all simply confirming what I’ve long thought to be the case.

Nevertheless, it’s extremely exciting times.

[woopy]

Yes jonny

very nice video

i did not understand which circuit you use for this experiment. And if i understood right you use distilled water. What is the magnet under the test tube for ?

Sorry but english is not my mother tongue and i have some difficulties to follow you when you speak in your video.

But the result is very good and i can't wait to replicate.

bravo
Laurent