Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[woopy]

Hi all

thank's very much for your input and explanation.

I have tried yet 3 different toroid and different winding

As you can see on pix 1 , on the top there is a big TV yoke with the exciting circuit (joulethief part ) on one side and the 2 secondaries on the other side.
I made 12 turns on the primaries and 120 turns on the secondaries with 0.14 mm" plastic insulated copper wire.
This config works very well but needs a high power to melt steel and or create long plasma arc.

on the left part of the pix there is a TV yoke with one secondary and one secondary on each side. i would say almost the same as above.
So the TV yoke seems to be less efficient as a standard torroid as per the right toroid on the pix.

Once more it is my result and probably submit to other result from all of you.

So in summary , my accidently broken in 2 parts standard toroid is far the best. Especially in the ability to melt and create long plasma arc.

I also include the scope trace of the Standard toroid at about 12 volts input and with the max plasma arcing.
chanel 1 is the input positiv current (from the power supply) accros 1 ohm resistor. And chanel 2 is the signal probe on one of the elctrode lead wihtout grounding.
So Gyula there is effectively a strong assymetry in the AC .

i will of course study in more deepness all your proposal, but need some time to digest all the info.

good luck at all

Laurent

hope this helps




l

[Dave45]

If ran to electrodes I wonder how effective this would be at splitting water.

[gyula]

The output is pulsing DC. The electrons are flowing from left to right in the picture. As the electrons strike the other end of the arc they are heating the metal hot enough to melt it. This is the same principle which is used in electron beam welding and plasma arc cutting. I really don't think there is any cold and hot electricity in what you are doing. I have worked on industrial beam welders and very large plasma arc cutting machines. I do think it is very interesting that you can get that much power from such a small and simple circuit.

Carroll

Hi Caroll,

Last night (at another Forum) I thought of the same for the temperature difference between the electrodes and explained by the electrons "landing' on the positive electrode i.e. this needs a definite DC polarity which of course is also present in pulsed DC voltage.

Then I asked woopy if he used the HV diodes at the Sergdo circuit output and he said he did not.

So the phenomena happened in his setup with the some kHz near square wave AC pulses.

Now it occured to me there was an amplitude difference in his AC output waveform he showed in his video 2-3 days ago when he run the LED lamp test; now that he made new (200 turn) output secondary coils he has not shown the output waveform BUT in the old 500 turn case there was an asymmetry between the positive and negative amplitudes: the positive one was 200V peak from the zero crossing and the negative one was 150V peak below the zero crossing. If he has an asymmetry in waveform with the new windings then this can cause a DC shift, (a 50V bias in the previous setup) between the two electrodes, explaining some electron excess at the 'more positive' wire end.

rgds, Gyula

[Neight]

Can't believe I didn't think of this before, but a few weeks back, I ran into two videos that might be of interest to you guys, along the same lines of what you are attempting at the moment
here are the links
How to make a joule thief super high voltage fly back transformer driver - YouTube

The first one he shows how he made a joule thief with a flyback transformer

Some things you can do if you have high voltage - YouTube

and in the second, he shows what all he can do with the output of the joule thief and the flyback transformer.

It is really quite impressive, and worth a look

[xee2]

woopy,

I agree with citfta.

I do not think I can tell which end plasma starts at. The plasma is the electrons hitting the air molecules and that happens over the entire path of the electrons but should be more intense at the electrode that they are coming from. However, when the electrons hit the positive electrode they vaporize the metal which also produces plasma.

If I understand correctly, the best results should be with the output having the highest negative voltage connected to the wire (or other pointed object) and streaming electrons to an object connected to the most positive output which gets hot when hit by the electrons.

[citfta]

Simple explanation

The output is pulsing DC. The electrons are flowing from left to right in the picture. As the electrons strike the other end of the arc they are heating the metal hot enough to melt it. This is the same principle which is used in electron beam welding and plasma arc cutting. I really don't think there is any cold and hot electricity in what you are doing. I have worked on industrial beam welders and very large plasma arc cutting machines. I do think it is very interesting that you can get that much power from such a small and simple circuit.

Carroll

[woopy]

Hi Xee2

trying to understand your idea

and a simple question simply to be very clear in my mind.

Do you think that the plasma arc goes (or is generated ) from the left part of the first electrode ( as of my pix ) and goes to the right part of the second electrode (as of my pix) , or is it the contrary movement . ??

Thank's

Laurent

[xee2]

@ woopy

Please see the edit to my last post. I think it is just a matter of connecting the wire to the most negative output since electrons can be pulled from the wire more easily than from a flatter surface.

[Bob Smith]

Something interesting to throw into the mix. IST's video of a joule thief on a ferrite yoke, bumping the voltage up to over 400V with one D cell battery using a neo magnet, then removing it. He maintains that the neo gets the mag current into a rapid spin, hence the hi voltage. Sounds like SM's TPU:
FREE ENGERY COIL - YouTube

Maybe this opens up some possibilities for further experimentation with the Sergdo setup.
Bob

[woopy]

Hi Xee2

My question is exactly what you point out

is it a difference of the nature of energy on the output secondaries.

is it simply more or less energy on one side and less or more of the same energy on the other.

or
Are we dealing on the fact that on one side we have a "cold " or better sayd perhaps soft radiant ....energy .and on the other side a "hot " and so brutal energy that it can MELT steel .

Is this Sergdo's winding organising a transfer of this cold overall radiant energy to a hot powerfull and usefull energy by using the plasma arc ?

youpp thinking out of the box here

am prepared for bombing attack do not worry

good luck at all

laurent

[boguslaw]

one is current and second one is voltage, well.... Don Smith theory not mine

[xee2]

What do you think ??

This circuit is basically a Joule thief with opposing secondaries (this increases the effective inductance of the secondary). I have built many Joule thief circuits with secondaries and they all have more current from one output than the other.

EDIT: I may have said this poorly. The current flows from one output to the other. The current leaving one output will be identical to the current entering the other output (just like in a battery). But, one output will have a larger positive voltage than the other. Thus an LED placed across the outputs will be brighter in one direction than the other.

It is easier to pull electrons from a sharp point than from a flat surface. Thus having the negative terminal connected to the wire should make it easier to generate the plasma.

[woopy]

Hi all

i made a small experiment using on both melting spot the same steel wire.

And i noticed that if i make some distance between electrode i get a significant plasma arc (about 1 cm ) but look at the pix enclosed

there is a huge difference between the 2 ends of the plasma arc.
the left end is cold and the right end is hot (and melts)

So the output energy getting out of the leads of the secondaries are of different nature.

What do you think ??

good luck at all

Laurent

[xee2]

Any1 know the best way to lower current draw? I'm still drawing around 700ma

Increase the resistor value.

[jimboot]

@woopy
Looking at your picture - I'm sure that many roadside deer have seen a similar image bearing down on them late at night !

Found a CRT ferrite today in my unsightly pile of old monitors in our backyard.
I'm going to wind it with 30 gauge wire (all i've got). Is that a large enough gauge to use at 12V ?
Hmmm, though, on the toroid itself at the moment is that multistrand stuff. I wonder if it can be used simply 'as is', untouched, and then just add the 2x 20 turns coils on top.

My ferrite yoke works well. Save the clips! Still not melting metal yet. Only have about 60 turns. Led is bloody bright though. Any1 know the best way to lower current draw? I'm still drawing around 700ma