Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[woopy]

Hi Xeno

thank's a lot for posting this very clear circuits

And of course i tried those immediately .

Very good results and than i tried the same cct with only 2N2222A .
that is to say 4 x2 N2222 n in parallel. And very good result also up to 9 volts.

Just for Farrah , with no capacitor at all.

and than i added 1.5 volt more (10.5 volts) to get even more
electrolisis, and as soon as i touched the + , the complete set of transistors 2N2222 fried )

The quest to very efficient electrolisis is fantastic and sometimes disapointing

And i phoned my supplier to send me REALLY BIG QUANTITY of those bloody much to fragile transistors

but that's all folks

Happy to share with you

laurent

[Xenomorph]

Look into the datasheets of the manufacturer also, there might be power dissipation deviations between them.

[juju]

exiter

xeno...

with normal batterys, what are your best results, charging with the colapsing field of L2, or with an avramenko plug at the end of the L2?

im starting to wound a big coil of 1Meter and 8Cm diameter... will posts the picks soon!!

hugs

[Xenomorph]

I must admit i only focused on conditioning a dead battery and since i only succeded with the negative time charging, i stayed with that method and did not experiment with Avramenkoīs yet.
What i like about the exciter as a charger is that it is easier to control the input current for better charging than with the standard solid state Bedini.
I have yet to experiment with different tunings and so forth.
Good Luck with your 1m coil

[Farrah Day]

Hi Woopy

Just for Farrah , with no capacitor at all.

Realised I'd not fully understood the basic JT operation. Researched it today, now I fully understand how they work, and why the cap is not necessary.

Has anyone tried using the 2N3053 transistor as it seems it can handle a bit more power than the two that most of you are using?

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Farrah

[Xenomorph]

Hi Woopy



Realised I'd not fully understood the basic JT operation. Researched it today, now I fully understand how they work, and why the cap is not necessary.

Has anyone tried using the 2N3053 transistor as it seems it can handle a bit more power than the two that most of you are using?

2N3053 pdf, 2N3053 datasheets, 2N3053 데ėī타ė‹œíŠļ , 2N3053 데ėī터ė‹œíŠļ , 2N3053 description, 2N3053 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

Farrah

It has a much lower hfe and really is more for high power circuits, but Slayer did use it in his Big Joule Thief. I guess itīs worth a test how it performs, it certainly will not fry, but the operation might not match the 2N2222,MPSA06 one.

[woopy]

Hi all

as Xeno said it is probably not necessary to play with mosfet as effectively the power is very small to excite this big coil,

HeHe juju same good idea to wound a very long coil.

but what is the best , if we have the same copper gage wire ( 0.3 mm for instance)

a 8 cm diameter and 1 meter long coil or 16 cm diameter 0.5 meter long coil

i would apreciate your idea



here under some of my testing with mesh electrode, i will report later the results

thanks and good night

Laurent

[wrench76]

yet another SIMPLE sec

Hello everyone. I just wanted to share my results of a very simple sec.Like many of you I was tiered of letting the smoke out of those tiny transistors. So I tried what ever I had, I had very good results with both TIP31 and TIP3055. The best part is I have no resistors or caps in the circuit. With a heat sink on the TIP31 it runs @ about 85 deg.F. I have also tried a new L1 coil,its a pancake coil with 1/2 inch gaps between each wind,the inside diameter is about 4 inches, the wire is 14 gauge silver tinned copper(regular magnet wire works almost as good). Since I made the coil, and transistor change I now get a good amount of plasma off of the L2,I have never had any plasma with the small transistors.Sorry I dont have a camera at the moment but the circuit is simple,Batt + to end of L1, start of L1 to collector,emitter to Batt -,L2 to base.This is not like Jonnys sec, this one bites. It does all the normal light stuff very well,neons just light on the table,one cool thing is if I hold the neon near the L2 the plasma forms at the tip of the neon just like the L2 does when it is just running (about a 5 mm long purple point)
L1 14g silver tinned copper 1/2 in spacing (4 turns works good for me)
L2 30g magnet wire 3x13 inches
TIP31 or TIP3055 w/heat sink
12vdc around 400ma while playing with the plasma arc
Thanks

[juju]

Since I made the coil, and transistor change I now get a good amount of plasma off of the L2,I have never had any plasma with the small transistors.Sorry I dont have a camera at the moment but the circuit is simple,Batt + to end of L1, start of L1 to collector,emitter to Batt -,L2 to base.This is not like Jonnys sec, this one bites. It does all the normal light stuff very well,neons just light on the table,one cool thing is if I hold the neon near the L2 the plasma forms at the tip of the neon just like the L2 does when it is just running (about a 5 mm long purple point)
L1 14g silver tinned copper 1/2 in spacing (4 turns works good for me)
L2 30g magnet wire 3x13 inches
TIP31 or TIP3055 w/heat sink
12vdc around 400ma while playing with the plasma arc
Thanks

hi wrench...

maybe your SEC bites because of the transistors you are using? thats cool!

because as jonny explained, he connected the L2 to the battery positive.. and putted one 16K resistor from the base to the bat. positive, to get the plasma of his exiter!

i wonder if you can get plasma with lower voltages?

keep it up buddy!!

hugs

[juju]

=)

HeHe juju same good idea to wound a very long coil.

but what is the best , if we have the same copper gage wire ( 0.3 mm for instance)

a 8 cm diameter and 1 meter long coil or 16 cm diameter 0.5 meter long coil

i would apreciate your idea

Laurent

hi laurent

funny you ask that, sorry to just answer now... i was wondering about the same thing before i started to wound my coil, because i have a more larger "core" here, but not so long...

i dont know what type will give best performance (consumption / wireless field size)... if you try with the smaller but larger one, we can compare results... or later i will wound that one to... if my head dont hurts until then...

WTF, im at the middle of the coil, my hand hurts, my back hearts... there's not an easy way to wound this stuff? why they dont sell them at the super market? LOL

my small ones dont gived so much trouble!

[juju]

The reason is probably the fact that there is not enough charge current being captured with the tower. On the other hand, if there was more current then one would probably get shocked being just near those things, as the whole surrounding area is highly potentialized (>100 Volts)

i think this is a different type/form of energy... my AVplug L1 output shows me 300Volts without load... but one does not get shock!

But if i charge the capacitor of my camera circuit with 300Volts, the circuit dont have almost any current, but it shocks a lot!!

Good Luck with your 1m coil

i should have readed your post before i started, maybe had better luck, but i had a small trouble,. at the middle of my coil my wire broke... i will not start this all over again... I soldered it and im going to continue... do you think this will affect my performance?

hugs

[Farrah Day]

It has a much lower hfe and really is more for high power circuits, but Slayer did use it in his Big Joule Thief. I guess itīs worth a test how it performs, it certainly will not fry, but the operation might not match the 2N2222,MPSA06 one.

I assumed the hfe would not be important in the context that we are using the transistors in a JT. Ie. not so much as an amplifier, but rather a switch. Maybe it is internal capacitances across the n-p and p-n junctions that is of more importance.

I daresay you're correct in thinking that it's simply a matter of 'suck-it-and-see'!

Farrah.

[Xenomorph]

i think this is a different type/form of energy... my AVplug L1 output shows me 300Volts without load... but one does not get shock!

But if i charge the capacitor of my camera circuit with 300Volts, the circuit dont have almost any current, but it shocks a lot!!

In my experience you need a certain amount of current for charging, if a charge is "too radiant" (as it is sometimes referred to) it will turn out to be fluffy. I had not earth grounded the coil, will try that too.
Because that is basically what happens when you get shocked, that charges flow to ground through you.
With these kinds of coil set-ups it is all about tuning, i have the theory that the interception of small amounts of energy from the surrounding environment is merely a tiny fraction of what it could be when the reception circuit is properly tuned.

i should have readed your post before i started, maybe had better luck, but i had a small trouble,. at the middle of my coil my wire broke... i will not start this all over again... I soldered it and im going to continue... do you think this will affect my performance?

If you solder it nicely, i see no reason why it should affect the performance.
However if you use that thin of a wire that it could break, your coil impedance will be quite high. Will be interesting to see how that performs then.

[Farrah Day]

i think this is a different type/form of energy... my AVplug L1 output shows me 300Volts without load... but one does not get shock!

But if i charge the capacitor of my camera circuit with 300Volts, the circuit dont have almost any current, but it shocks a lot!!

In my experience you need a certain amount of current for charging, if a charge is "too radiant" (as it is sometimes referred to) it will turn out to be fluffy. I had not earth grounded the coil, will try that too.
Because that is basically what happens when you get shocked, that charges flow to ground through you.
With these kinds of coil set-ups it is all about tuning, i have the theory that the interception of small amounts of energy from the surrounding environment is merely a tiny fraction of what it could be when the reception circuit is properly tuned.

It's a similar story with my ignition coil set up, when compared to JD's Joule Thief plasma discharging cct.

I can't touch my plasma spark without getting one hell of a shock, but JD can poke his finger in the plasma with no ill effects whatsover.

Current is the key, or rather the current limiting nature of the circuit. As long as the current is severely limited, then all is well.

The very same thing applies to Van de Graaff generators that can produce perhaps upwards of 100KVolts, yet only provide a current in microamps, due to their inherent extremely high internal resistance.

I think that in the cases of corona discharge particularly, what is being achieved is that the capacitance between transistor n-p juctions in parallel with the primary inductor creates a parallel resonant cct. The better we tune this cct, the higher the voltage we can get across the seconday, whilst at the same time, naturally limiting the current.

I can see no other way that JD can be achieving a plasma discharge that he can happily poke his finger in. But of course, that's only my initial take on things, going on what I've seen... I might be way off the mark!

Farrah

[Farrah Day]

I'm beginning to confuse myself here now.

Farrah

The circuit i use is the Slayer 007 cct. The capacitor is not absolutely necessary but it reduces the current when tuned correctly.

Woopy, I've cracked it as far as understanding the principle of operation of a basic Joule Thief, but this Slayer cct is not a JT is it, so how can it resonate without the capacitor in place? A basic JT relies on the bifilar wound inductor, but this Slayer cct has no such thing. Without the bifilar wound inductor and without a capacitor in place, how is this cct possibly resonating?? All I can see is the transistor being turn on - what happens in order to turn it off?

Any ideas anybody? Someone please put me out of my misery.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...ctroliser2.jpg