Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[Jiffycoil]

Thanks so much Lamare. I'm with you on the design of Tesla coils and I'm also familiar with Eric Dollards work. The problem here is that the Slayer Exciter does not work like a Tesla coil. The secondary connects to the circuit and the (Toploads) in this case do act as capacitors and extend the range of the exciter dramatically.

[Jiffycoil]

@Lamare
I just read through your paper and your idea of driving to identical power transformers in resonance is very interesting. I would love to try this. I really enjoyed your paper by the way.

[xee2]

Thanks so much Lamare. I'm with you on the design of Tesla coils and I'm also familiar with Eric Dollards work. The problem here is that the Slayer Exciter does not work like a Tesla coil. The secondary connects to the circuit and the (Toploads) in this case do act as capacitors and extend the range of the exciter dramatically.

I agree. The top loads provide a capacitive plate on one end of the coil. And also decreases power lost due to ion emissions (which happen at sharp edges). Since a sphere does not have edges, it can charge to a higher voltage than a plate containing 90 degree corners.

[Jiffycoil]

Thank you for accurately describing what I'm also seeing.

[Lidmotor]

Jonny's "Pan Exciter" revisited.

@ Jonny & All
Jonny I took another look at your original "Pan Exciter" with the 10 KV trigger coil and worked with it again. I was able to eliminated the aluminum pans, add a few parts, and put the whole thing on a small circuit board. I am beginning to understand why these things do what they do--- but it is a slow process.
Here is a video of what I call the "Jonny--Lidmotor Exciter."

YouTube - Jonny -- Lidmotor Exciter.ASF

Cheers,


Lidmotor

[Jiffycoil]

Very interesting. I would like to try this. Where did you buy the 10k trigger?

[Lidmotor]

Very interesting. I would like to try this. Where did you buy the 10k trigger?

Mouser Electronics sells them. The part # is 422-2310. It is called a "Xicon Audio & Signal Transformer. We tried different kinds of trigger coils and I even used one out of a disposable flash camera that worked.
I just reread some of the old posts here and Amigo did pretty much the same thing with this circuit last December. He has some good scope shots of the wave forms.

Lidmotor

[Jiffycoil]

I love the fact that you guys rework the experiments over and over again. It amazes me what that process yields, even if it's reworking what has already been done. Thanks Lidmotor.

[Jiffycoil]

Pancake Coil Slayer Exciter

I spent the night trying to replicate Lidmotors "Jonny / Lidmotor Exciter" and I was not able to because I don't have a 10Kv trigger switch. After trying various other coils with no success I decided to wind a Pancake coil and see if I could run it using the Slayer Exciter. The results a interesting.

YouTube - Pancake coil Slayer Exciter

[seth]

Thanks so much Lamare. I'm with you on the design of Tesla coils and I'm also familiar with Eric Dollards work. The problem here is that the Slayer Exciter does not work like a Tesla coil. The secondary connects to the circuit and the (Toploads) in this case do act as capacitors and extend the range of the exciter dramatically.

@Xee, Jiffy, Lamare

very interesting discussion. Its also where i see a big difference between Tesla coils and slayer exciters. The secondary of a TC is earth grounded (and HAS to be...i tried using house mains, and blew my fuse box several times ) whereas the slayer exciter has to be connected to the base resistor. But i've noticed that bringing Earth ground CLOSE to the secondary output of a slayer exciter seems to increase output.
EG's....ion motors spin faster when there is a capacitor plate earth grounded near them. Lights will brighten when the same capacitor is brought close. In fact, most lights go out or become very dim if you dont touch them when they are near the exciter....i assumed this was because there was no passage to earth ground, without the body touching the light. So earth ground is still important for the exciter output, even if its not connected to it as a tesla coil is. Ignore me if all this is obvious or wrong headed

@Lidmotor

nice vid! Interesting as always. I cant get a lot of output as soon as i start using smaller coils, so its impressive to see such a little beast doing so much.

[lamare]

@Xee, Jiffy, Lamare

very interesting discussion. Its also where i see a big difference between Tesla coils and slayer exciters. The secondary of a TC is earth grounded (and HAS to be...i tried using house mains, and blew my fuse box several times ) whereas the slayer exciter has to be connected to the base resistor. But i've noticed that bringing Earth ground CLOSE to the secondary output of a slayer exciter seems to increase output.
EG's....ion motors spin faster when there is a capacitor plate earth grounded near them. Lights will brighten when the same capacitor is brought close. In fact, most lights go out or become very dim if you dont touch them when they are near the exciter....i assumed this was because there was no passage to earth ground, without the body touching the light. So earth ground is still important for the exciter output, even if its not connected to it as a tesla coil is. Ignore me if all this is obvious or wrong headed

@Lidmotor

nice vid! Interesting as always. I cant get a lot of output as soon as i start using smaller coils, so its impressive to see such a little beast doing so much.

The main difference between a TC and Slayers circuit appears to be the feedback. The reason the secondary has to be connected to the base of the transistor is because you need a feedback signal to maintain the oscillation. You can get the same feedback using a so-called tickler coil, which means adding another secondary with the same amount of windings as the primary. I have done that with Stifflers circuit some time ago:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post65723
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post65420

If you do that, you can connect the negative terminal of the secondary to ground and you basically have a TC.

See the Spice model I made for Slayers circuit:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post113832

If you remove the connection between L2 and L3, the larger coil is then modelled by L3, L4 and L5, while L2 is your tickler coil. C4 can then be taken out, the top of L2 connected to ground while you add a couple capacitor between the other terminal of L2 and the base of the transistor. Then you get an oscillator with L1 as the primary coil, L2 as the tickler (feedback) coil and L3-L5 as the secondary, which is exactly like a TC. That way, your transistor has a much easier life, too.

In a way, the base of the transistor is also coupled to ground in Slayers circuit, when you add the protection diodes which I did not put in the Spice model, btw.

[lamare]

@Lamare
I just read through your paper and your idea of driving to identical power transformers in resonance is very interesting. I would love to try this. I really enjoyed your paper by the way.

Please be aware that the schematic as shown in the paper will not work, because the diodes will shortcut your transformer. I have worked this further out in the Spice model posted above: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post114287

[jonnydavro]

Hi.Great experiments Jiffy and Lidmotor .I tried a homebrew exciter today using some pc ribbon cable from a car boot sale.I just soldered adjacent wires together at each end and rolled it around a glass and used my torroid L1/L2 setup.I wonder if it would work unrolled flat?
I did some experiments with water and found that water can inhibit exciter output like in my pop bottle coil or increase output in the pc ribbon exciter.
I also experimented with a homemade top load consisting of a balloon,filled with water with an electrode and some tinfoil.This topload started life as an attempt at a salt water capasitor as a topload but I think the rubber is not a very good dialectric but i will make a better attempt as I think a saltwater cap would be an intersting experiment with these circuits.
Here is a vid.
YouTube - Pc ribbon cable exciter and other experiments
@Lidmotor.Great miniturisation of the pan oscillator .Looks really neat on that board.I think 30mA draw is not to bad but you could try the tranny mod and maybe that would come down a bit or your reostat.
Great to see you revisit the early simple exciter circuits.Jonny
@Jiffy.Great little compact exciter you knocked up.There seems to be many ways to make an exciter and the fact that you are spending so much of your time with all your experience of tesla coils and jacobs ladders tells me that there is something worth working on here and spurs me and others on I am sure.
I can't wait to see what your 4 coil setup does,they look amazing.Where do you get those toploads from and are they expensive? Jonny
Jonny

[Jiffycoil]

Thanks Jonny,
I got to the point where I felt I was not growing and that spewing electricity in the air was not what Tesla intended for his invention. Working with everyone here feels good and you never know what could come from it. Thank you.

The top loads are chrome metal and they cost $6.79 ea from Save-on-crafts.com I looked around and that's a great price.

[wetissues]

Wire measurement formulae

Alright for all of you folks who have good hands and an electronic measuring scale, aslo a good side for maths. I have conjured up a formulae to measure how much wire you need, so basically what you do is you measure the weight of the wire you have. Get the tube you want to wind it to and take simple measuerments (it has to be a circular shape) diameter, height and radius (just half the diameter). Also look up the data sheet of the wire you had bought.
Follow the formulae, the key thing is at the top.

diameter (tube) dt 5 gpm= grammes per meter
height (tube) ht 20 g = grammes
diameter (wire) dw 0.3 lwn= legnth wire needed
legnth (wire) lw

lwn=(ht/2dw)(2dt pi)= 105.

33.333 X 31.41=104.719

grammes > wire length (lw) gpm/g= legnth (meters)
500g > 250m 2gpm/500g= 250m

Everything is measured in meters and centimeters. Feel free to comment on my maths (I'm only 13!)

Cheers, WETissues.