Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[NickZ]

Slayer:
You are now showing a 1n4148 diode, and a 1 meg resistor. My question is:
How can you can light the led(s) off of a 1.5 volt battery, using such high resistance? Is this correct?

The higher the value of resister that I've used, the less light I get, and the lower the resistor value is , the hotter the transistor gets. I've already cooked three 2n2222, using 6 to 12 volts. I am still using the Jt set up mentioned in my previous pics, and video, with the L3 off of the control, and an earth ground off of the base.

I would like to be able to use my 4.5 AH 12 volt battery as the input source, and light as many leds as possible, using the most efficient and strongest Exciter coil system, to obtain the most amount of light output from the leds.

I've had wireless working up to one yard away from the L3, but not for long, before the little 2n2222 go up in smoke. Maybe I need to use bigger coils with higher resistance to ovoid overheating?
Any suggestions are welcome

NickZ

[slayer007]

Slayer:
You are now showing a 1n4148 diode, and a 1 meg resistor. My question is:
How can you can light the led(s) off of a 1.5 volt battery, using such high resistance? Is this correct?

The higher the value of resister that I've used, the less light I get, and the lower the resistor value is , the hotter the transistor gets. I've already cooked three 2n2222, using 6 to 12 volts. I am still using the Jt set up mentioned in my previous pics, and video, with the L3 off of the control, and an earth ground off of the base.

I would like to be able to use my 4.5 AH 12 volt battery as the input source, and light as many leds as possible, using the most efficient and strongest Exciter coil system, to obtain the most amount of light output from the leds.

I've had wireless working up to one yard away from the L3, but not for long, before the little 2n2222 go up in smoke. Maybe I need to use bigger coils with higher resistance to ovoid overheating?
Any suggestions are welcome

NickZ

@ Diljalaay
The current used in the video was around 90mA.

@Nickz
Yes the resistor is a 1M.Once this is started you can remove the resistor and it will stay running.

With the basic Exciter with the indicator light I would use a larger coil.
The coil I use is around 3 X 14 inches around 1000 turns.

The featured video I have on my UT page is my favorite setup.
I replaced the led with a second pancake coil just like my primary coil.

[NickZ]

I thought that this video (below) was an interesting use of the Jt circuit, using the tuning cap, magnet, and short across the toroid. As it is similar to the circuit that I've been using, it may also be adapted to a wireless Exciter use, by adding an L3 to the transistor C, but I have not tried that yet.
Joule Thief Shorted.10 times more light. - YouTube

@ Slayer:
I had no luck with the mod to my exciter circuit using a two turn L2 wound around the small L3 tower coil. I'll keep at it though, as I'd really like to see this work as you are showing.
NickZ

[slayer007]

I thought that this video (below) was an interesting use of the Jt circuit, using the tuning cap, magnet, and short across the toroid. As it is similar to the circuit that I've been using, it may also be adapted to a wireless Exciter use, by adding an L3 to the transistor C, but I have not tried that yet.
Joule Thief Shorted.10 times more light. - YouTube

@ Slayer:
I had no luck with the mod to my exciter circuit using a two turn L2 wound around the small L3 tower coil. I'll keep at it though, as I'd really like to see this work as you are showing.
NickZ

@Nickz
Your setup is a little different than mine.I have the L2 pancake coil around the L1 coil with the L3 coil sitting by the L1 coil and the second pancake coil or L4 just sitting off by its self.
The L4 coil was inplace of the led indicator light.


@All
In my last video I had the leds across the collector and emitter.
In this video I will show the positive side of the leds in between the diode and trigger coil.
And then the negative side going to the collector the base and then the emitter.

JT Exciter Load Points - YouTube

[NickZ]

Thank you for your reply.
I will try to reproduce your set up as best as I can in the future. Even though I keep burning the transistors for no obvious reason, I've ordered more of the 2n2222, 1 meg resistors, etz... so that I can follow this work, as they may be a critical part to this effect.
There is something which I'm also seeing, which is how the leds can light with practically no current, or voltage at times. I believe this to be something that may relate to what the Doc has mentioned concerning not just the normal HF resonance, but also that other more illusive spacial coherence factor. Which is the real important part of this work, to further understand and to be able to also reproduce that effect in the different devices.
I really appreciate your hard work and dedication to this very important anomaly, and will do my best to follow through with this.

NickZ

[woopy]

Hi all

i am sure we can get the same results with a very low power Slayer exciter

good luck at all

Laurent

charging by induction approach 1.wmv - YouTube

[NickZ]

Thank you Woopy. Interesting video, also.
I use an aluminum sheet next to my LAB's and get good wireless range up to 3 or 4 feet. The best I've had was about 5 feet, so far.
I've also had interesting wireless results using just a single AA battery, but when I used my 12volt battery the other day to increase the range, the TIP31 blew up in my face. So, I'm back to working with lower voltages for now, until I figure this out. Most transistors, other than the 2n2222 or kn2222a have not worked very well for me.
Lasersaber has mentioned that he has seen some interesting things happen even without the base circuit connected. And Slayer has mentioned that once his circuit starts the base resistor can even be removed. All very intriguing....
I've got more transistors on order, and a face shield. Ha!!!

NickZ

[Slider2732]

@NickZ - I don't know if this helps, but remember MrFlatHunter's recent 30V printer power supply forays ?
I've emulated that system, using an A1941 and it runs fine. Here's the datasheet: http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/doc...eet_101102.pdf
It's nothing too fancy, was taken from a CRT monitor chassis. What really seemed to help, was a large pair of resistors of about 3K on the power input. The output remained very strong and the tranny stopped overheating.
By using a remote pop bottle type tower and AV plug LED, with 1 wire from one leg of the LED to a heatsink, i'm getting a 6ft range. An LED on an AV plug will light to 4ft in the hand (with my own body on the outer side).
Fair enough it's 30V, but the range is great and no exploding transistor

Here's a pic of the tower. I'll hope to make a video or two using it. Basics are that it's ~1000 turns of 30 gauge on a 3 1.2" OD x 14" high PVC pipe. A polystyrene ball is covered with kitchen foil on the top. The Primary is internal of 3 turns.
Coffee cup for size comparison.



Main thing though, balancing resistance on the input to transistor output may save things at higher voltages

[NickZ]

Slider and All:
Thank you for the info. Yes, I've also had to use some different transistors and resistors, as I've gone through a few of my most useful ones now, and I'm many miles from the nearest Radio Shack.
I still don't understand how the 1 meg resistor will fire up the transistor, mine will fire without it, but not with it on. The highest resistance that has worked is 100k, but the transistor will cook with even that on the base, at 12volts input. Something kicks in, and the circuit works great at over an arms distance away from the L3, until the smoke starts up.
I also have several entire crt monitor pc board parts to chose from, and I'm a scavenger, like yourself.
Free is the best price... but with this device exact parts are what is needed. Although, if the shoe fits... I wear it.
I'm hooked on working on this now, and won't give up, as I've seen the light, at least at times... and my heart jumps for joy when it happens.
I'm more into making Jonny's tiny 2cm L3s, over the bigger 3 inch by 14in ones now. As it's amazing that he can get about the same results with that size ferrite core, "tower"?
The kacher videos have also been quite interesting...

I've now taken a couple more radios apart for their variable tuning capacitors, ferrite rods, resistors, etz.. and have also installed a new improved outside grounding rod system to make the most out of this effect.
But, the Big Bertha is on my must do list.
Anyways, I'm hard at it... "thanks at all", or something like that, like Woopy says....

NickZ

[Slider2732]

I'm about 3 miles from our RS, but it's not worth bothering with. They don't even have lead-free solder, let alone the transformers everyone is using for lighting at the moment. Pretty much all of it is big TV's, cellphones and boxed computers. Oh, there are the odd co-ax connectors, but really somewhere like Walmart is just as good for parts in the automotive section !

Speaking of parts...glad to hear about the CRT chassis. You'll find excellent 1500V transistors bolted to the flyback aluminium. Some have TIP series transistors in them, nearly all will have IRF630 and equiv MOSFETS.
I built a copy of the SEC 18 of Dr. Stiffler's purely from CRT chassis parts, runs from an AA

As far as resistance on the Base..and i'm no EE, so is just an understanding. The Positive supply goes directly to one end of the L1, the other end of it connects to the Collector. So powering of the Primary is based on the always connected Positive supply and the firings of the transistor to the other end of it.
The resistor stops the full supply voltage hitting the transistor Base, or it would never switch. It would be constantly seeing nothing but the overpowering full supply voltage, anything that the L2 may do would be swamped. To do anything, the transistor needs to switch rapidly, turn on the Collector, then receive the pulse back from the L2 into the Base to continue again.
With a resistor of 1meg, most emphasis is being placed on the feedback from the L2. A 1K will work fine, but more draw will be seen on the circuit, through the transistor. In other words, wasted as heat for the switching function we are using it for and more so with more voltage. Add high hFE (amplified current) and the transistor can heat up very quickly.
The 1Meg translates as a power limiter, but enables enough Positive to initially kick start the transistor into that feedback condition of L1 and L2 interaction.
Often, the resistor can be pulled once oscillations start, the L2 is now active and the Positive supply is no longer needed into the Base. The current the transistor then uses is dictated by the L1/L2 interaction and loading of them
Where a circuit only runs at certain set resistances (like never with a 1meg resistor) then a tuning LED becomes really handy. It's just the standard Emitter to Base connection, with the Positive leg of the LED connected to the Emitter (conventionally would be wrong way around). The feedback will run down the LED to ground and allows careful tuning of the L1. The brighter the LED, the better set up the circuit is. Once set up and the LED bright, you should be able to throw in a 1Meg resistor and it start up fine, while using less input energy to do so and resulting in a cooler transistor.

[NickZ]

Very nice explanation, and well laid out. It does answer a couple of my questions. That was what I needed to know, as well as any other guys out there that are just starting to work with this unusual circuit.
I also wondered why the circuit would work fine at times, then not fire at all, if anything was changed in trying increase the wireless effect generation.
Needless to say, it was all very frustrating.
Thank you, for that explanation. It really does help.

BTW: I find that my empty beer cans make for great wireless repeaters, and that CFL bulbs also radiate their own wireless output up to several inches away from the bulbs.
If using a rabbit ears antenna on my Tv, when the wireless signal from the Exciter is not right, the Tv reception is lost completely, even though it is several yards away. Good thing I'm not in an apartment building.

Nick

[NickZ]

Just checked out this Kacher circuit, and what do you know...
Brovin / Kacher Generator (Invention and Operating Principle) - YouTube

Such a coincidence... or is it?

[NickZ]

@ Slider:
I wanted to take the time to give you a big big THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I took your advice, and my Exciter system is now working as it should. NO HEAT on the transistor, or anything else.
This heat issue was not a small matter, as it was not possible to continue until the meltdown was corrected. Now it is. All that was necessary was a resistor on the 12v battery positive. I placed a 3 k (or so) on it, and my troubles are over, and the system is still stronger than ever.
Now I can get back to making new coils, and trying different components, and on with the experiments.

I've found that the transistors that come in the gutted CFLs can also sometimes be used, although not all will work, especially if they are the cause of the CFL not working. But, the 2n2222 are still the best for this purpose, by far.

This issue has had me stopped from the beginning, after burning out all my best most useful pots, resistors, leds, and even having the bigger and stronger transistors blow up in my face.
I started pulling my hair out by the roots...

I am now able to work on the wireless aspect, tests, and improvements.
So, once again, thank you very much, Slider, you've saved my day.
I'm a happy camper, now...
NickZ

[Slider2732]

Delighted to help out and congrats
A while back, I tried a variable pot and, perhaps obviously, it didn't last too long before melting down. So the only thing to remember is that little 1/8W resistors are no good.
With turning the transistor frying into heat on the front end, it's perhaps only a shunting of power to a less critical component, but it saves the transistors.

[NickZ]

I can't explain it myself, it is still a mistery to me, just how or why that resistor makes a difference, but it does. Putting the same 3k resistor on the base, does not work, but putting it on the positive of the battery rail, and the transistor is stone cold, wireless working up to a foot of more away from the coil. I'm currently using a 100 k resistor on the base, with a small pot also. the 1n4148 diode between the emiter and base also seams to help. Outside ground to the base, doubles the light output.
The battery voltage reading at the transistor is about 6.5 volts, with the device running off of a 12v, 4.5 mAh LAB. I'll try to increase voltage carefully while keeping an eye on the transistor heat, as the wireless range is increased.
I am still having a bit of a hard time trying to figuring where to test for the current draw. It is just done by placing the meter in series between the battery positive and the control of the transistor?
For now, I'm very happy to be able to continue with this work.
I also hope that anyone else that has had this heat problem, will take note.