DC/AC Magneto

[John_K]

Hi Jet,

The fact that nearly all the "replications" of RFs generator coil only pulsed once or twice per revolution interests me. Why not more? Obviously, on RFs build, with commutator, it was just thrown together like this. But what if we can do more pulses per revolution?

JBs free energy generator (DC motor/Flywheel/alternator) was mechanically pulsed 1 for 1, meaning for every drive pulse there was a back pulse to compliment it.

Still going through the posts on this thread.

The way I look at it is that when a permanent magnet is passed over iron repeatedley, the iron gets magnetized more. The more you pass a magnet over it, the more it gets magnetized.

Now, if we have a coil of wire wrapped around the iron, everytime we pass a magnet over the iron a voltage is induced in the coil. So every time we pass a magnet over our iron-cored coil the induced voltage increases. It's like the coil is a capacitor.

With a capacitor, when we short it out, the more the capacitor is charged, the more of a "crack" we get.

So my theory is that you should abrubtly discharge the generator coil once per revolution to get the best effect. Since it's also a bad idea to charge and discharge a capacitor (or battery) at the same time, you have to discharge the generator coil in between magnets - otherwise it creates drag.

Remember too that JB's FEG had 6 generator coils hooked in series. He did only discharge once per revolution, but for just less than half of the revolution. Here's where the flywheel comes in I suppose.

You only need enough potential on the back-pop to get the ions in the battery to move themselves, aka "in re-charge mode". Once/rev should be enough of a kick in the pants to keep the battery in re-charge mode always.

But here's the kicker, if you impedance match your primary battery to the load then it doesn't even think there is a load on it, therefore the primary is always in re-charge mode...

John K.

[ren]

Hi John,

Id say I agree with most of what you said there Of course, the only things I have questions about are the things I plan to test, so I will leave them out.

I like the talk of the coil holding charge. Makes alot of sense to me. If youve been following JB in the TS thread you may have noticed his comments regarding WHERE the charge is stored....in the dielectric. This would mean the spaces between the wires are just as important as the wire itself.

I will be interested to see if pulsing more than once per rotation results in reduced output, or if we can just let it rip.

Finally finished my second coil mount. Winding as we speak.

Regards

[John_K]

Time will tell...

Hi Ren,

I agree, the proof is on the bench.

The mounts look good. Happy winding!

I've been thinking a lot about the "spike" lately. You know, the TS made the penny drop - it's all about maximizing the potential without the current.

The "contents" of the spike are HV with almost zero impedance, or if you've got the right parts, negative impedance. If the spike was a battery you could say that it has potential of 250V, with an internal resistance of 0.0001 ohms (or -0.0001 if you go negative). This also means that the amount of current in the spike is miniscule.

So when a 250V spike with almost no current is applied to a 12 battery with an internal resistance of say, 0.025 ohms, the battery looks like a high impedance. Therefore, because they differ in impedance and potential, they want to balance out, so BINGO!, the battery charges up, with no current!

What destroys the effect is when the spike is over and the coil discharges regular current over the battery, it has to go somewhere. All of a sudden the difference in potential and impedance between the coil and the battery is not as big as it was before.

So the trick is HV and fast switching at the right time, when the battery is not under load.

John K.

[Jetijs]

Great coils Ren
I hope you can change the cores on those? Here is my setup so far:







There is room for 8 coils. I made 4 standard SSG coils with three strands of wire and so far two recovery coils with 4500 turns of 0.35mm diameter wire. Did make a shaft and bearing assembly, but that needs to be done again as the rotor vibrates strongly at higer speeds and wobles around.

Thanks

Jetijs

[ren]

JET! Looks awesome

Great work. Bloody hell, the only way I will keep up with you is if I photoshop all my pictures!

I cant remove the cores on those two coils in the pic, easily anyway. Why do you ask? For the drive coils I didnt think it was necessary, worst comes to worst I will have to build a new cradle/spool.

Those 4.5k turn genny coils sound spot on, what is the inductance on them? Be getting into the Henries Id imagine?

Jet, and others, also consider using the bipolar circuit ( or half circuit if its all one polarity) to drive this thing


Beautiful work mate, I love it.

Regards

[ren]

the only way to keep up with Jetijs.....

Photoshop...

[Jetijs]

That's a good one


Haven't measured the inductance of the 4.5k turn coils yet, will inform you later.

[Inquorate]

Shameless double post; possible super efficient generator

Hi all, just a side-track to my Rodin studies here about something thats been bothering me,

after watching this video demonstration... YouTube - Energy Propagation

when at the resonant frequency, there is no (very little ) current flowing through the primary as evidenced by the bulb going out, while at the same time there is 'full' current flowing through the secondary as evidenced by the 2nd bulb lit fully.....well......unless im missing something REALLY stupidly simple here....isnt THIS very situation what were all looking for??????????????

IE :- little or no draw ( current wise ) on our 'input' side....with a lot of 'Output' on the other side????

As far as i can see ( lets assume sig gen is putting out say 10V )....when at the resonant frequency, the draw on the input would be ..to all intense & purposes.. w = v x i = 10 x 0.001 = 0.1W

on output side w = 10 x 0.1 = 1W ( im assuming 10V & 100mA acorss and through the 2nd bulb as evidenced by its brightness )

so, this resonant system is 10-1 OU?

What am i missing?

David. D

Has anyone tried to make a motor that uses a cap to bounce energy back and forward from a coil?

If the core of the coil was adjustable, or the capacitor was adjustable, one could vary the motor's speed.

But it could possibly be efficient enough to drive magnets past other coils and generate more energy out than we have to put in right?

I gotta get well enough to start doing experiments; I'm having too many ideas to follow through with them all.

[ren]

Has anyone tried to make a motor that uses a cap to bounce energy back and forward from a coil?

If the core of the coil was adjustable, or the capacitor was adjustable, one could vary the motor's speed.

But it could possibly be efficient enough to drive magnets past other coils and generate more energy out than we have to put in right?

I gotta get well enough to start doing experiments; I'm having too many ideas to follow through with them all.

Hi Ben,

I have considered this before. I have some things Id like to try.

I believe the Rotorverter uses a similar principle.

The difficulty arises with keeping the motor/
generator at a constant speed. As you would have noted with the resonance experiments if one of the parameters are slightly out the whole thing is offset. This would be particularly tricky with a motor especially, as it is constantly changing speeds, which equates to a change in frequency.

Also, I think larger coils (ie solenoids) wouldnt have anywhere near the "q" of a single layer solenoid, which I believe would resonate much better, but as a motor coil is pretty much useless.

After saying that, I still feel it is a very valid approach, if your motor/gen could run in a resonant state, exchanging power back and forth between the inductor and capacitor then Im sure you would see some cool stuff.

Regards

[ren]

Hi Ren,

I've been thinking a lot about the "spike" lately. You know, the TS made the penny drop - it's all about maximizing the potential without the current.

The "contents" of the spike are HV with almost zero impedance, or if you've got the right parts, negative impedance. If the spike was a battery you could say that it has potential of 250V, with an internal resistance of 0.0001 ohms (or -0.0001 if you go negative). This also means that the amount of current in the spike is miniscule.

So when a 250V spike with almost no current is applied to a 12 battery with an internal resistance of say, 0.025 ohms, the battery looks like a high impedance. Therefore, because they differ in impedance and potential, they want to balance out, so BINGO!, the battery charges up, with no current!

What destroys the effect is when the spike is over and the coil discharges regular current over the battery, it has to go somewhere. All of a sudden the difference in potential and impedance between the coil and the battery is not as big as it was before.



John K.

I like the way you put this John. It makes alot of sense to me in regards to the inductive spike and batteries.

Thanks for your input.

Regards

[John_K]

How to use the spike on a generator coil

Ren,

Cool, either we both get it or we're both nuts.

So we know what the spike can do, but how do we use it?

A good place to start before we attempt to back-pop batteries is to send the spike to a capacitor. This will show what sort of "energy" we have at our disposal. It's also a great way to see if you have the timing right when you discharge the generator coil.

First of all, how are you going to discharge the coil? I've only been able to get results with mechanical commutators - like a relay that is fired by a reed switch. The magnet that closes the reed switch is mounted on the rotor. This way you can also add reed switches in parallel if you want to try discharging the coil more than once per revolution. I suppose you could also use halls, but these use up power.

Ok, so once you have a decent commutator, connect the output of the coil to a HV FWBR and then to a HV, low uF capacitor. I usually have a 12v battery handy that I can dump the capacitor to when it's fully charged.

Then it's just a matter of adjust the timing so that the coil discharges half way in between magnets. You'll know when you have it right, the capacitor will charge VERY quickly and if you place an AC volt meter over the coil you should see the meter overload at 2000v. Use a cheap meter, rather than sending +2000v spikes into a good one that may blow it up.

If you are using a relay where you can see the contacts, you should see green sparks when the contacts close, as opposed to blue ones when the timing is not right.

I'm going to try this today with a bike wheel rotor and only NNNN magnet config - if I can find a relay that works without arc welding the contacts together. I'll let you know how it goes.

John K.

[ren]

sweet John, look forward to what you come up with.

I will be looking into a few different methods of collecting energy off the generator coil/s, but as far as shorting goes, I think the shorting into a capacitor is a good idea. JB also gave us the perfect means to discharge the capacitor easily as well, so you could implement something like this in the future too.

Im looking at building a very sturdy low friction commutator for these tests, so all of it will be mechanically timed at first.

Another thing I have been considering.

Is there a way to mimic the function of JBs SG circuit with the generator coil, and get two kicks for the price of one interrupt? So the initial shorting of the coil could go to a battery or charge a capacitor, and the opening of the circuit produce an inductive kick which is also taken advantage of? Does that make sense?

[John_K]

Inductive Kick

Ren,

Yes, if you get the timing in the "sweet spot", where you are getting HV pulses but also at the same time when you short the coil, just like the SSG the coil's polarities should flip and either attract the oncoming magnet or repel the magnet that just passed by the coil. I can't remember which way it works exactly, but you get the gist.

But conversely, if the timing is off it will cause drag which would slow the rotor down and also negate the effect.

A method to measure the rotor speed would be handy.

It is tricky to get the timing right though, it will frustrate the heck out of you. You'll be forever "tinkering" with it.

You can also put a scope on the AC of the coil to see how big the spikes are. Use 10x or 100x probes or you could blow the scope. Or better still, use a sniffer coil.

Once you think you haver the timing right, sub the capacitor for a LAB to see how well it charges or as you suggested, hook up a cap pulser circuit to dump it periodically.

John K.

[John_K]

Generator coil is on-line

Ren,

I got my bike wheel rotor running whilst pulsing the generator coil.

First I used a 12v relay (Dick Smith special) and could get >2000v pulses on the meter and the scope showed >500v spikes as well.

I wasn't really happy with the state of the contacts, so replaced the relay with an old relay from the electro-mechanical pinball machine parts box. This gave me much sharper spikes as the contacts were more rounded and cleaner than the old Dick Smith relay where the contacts were all pitted.

I used a 3uF 450V cap to adjust the timing. It's easier to see when the timing is right as the peak capacitor voltage will increase as you adjust the relay timing into the sweet spot. The best I could get on this cap was ~58v.

I subbed the cap with a 7Ah gel-cell, but the voltage hardly budged - +0.01v every few minutes.

Lastly, I tried a very crude commutator - a couple of relay contacts screwed to a bit of wood that struck a SS rod that was cable-tied to the rotor. Needless to say that piece of junk didn't work.

When it was running off the pinball relay I think I was getting as much out of it as I could. Probably need another 5-6 generator coils in series to get some decent results.

John K.

[ren]

Hi John,

What is the size of your genny coil approx?

Sounds like we need to come up with a better commutator...


Regards